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shontay33
Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 472
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Posted: 10/18/23 3:23 pm ::: |
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Rock Hard wrote: |
How much money an owner pays a coach should not concern your average fan. Professional sports is a business. An owner has the right to operate their business anyway they want to. Why should your average fan get upset about something they can not control?
Professional sports is about getting the best person to do the job. If you don't get the best people then your organization is not trying to win championships. As long as the owners are not doing something illegal or nefarious who cares?đ |
Would you take that same stance when it comes to players? I highly doubt it. Most of us complain about the salary of a player and their prefomance all the time. So why would a coach be an exception.
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shontay33
Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 472
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010 Posts: 5418 Location: Chocolate Paradise
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Posted: 10/18/23 4:32 pm ::: |
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shontay33 wrote: |
Rock Hard wrote: |
How much money an owner pays a coach should not concern your average fan. Professional sports is a business. An owner has the right to operate their business anyway they want to. Why should your average fan get upset about something they can not control?
Professional sports is about getting the best person to do the job. If you don't get the best people then your organization is not trying to win championships. As long as the owners are not doing something illegal or nefarious who cares?đ |
Would you take that same stance when it comes to players? I highly doubt it. Most of us complain about the salary of a player and their prefomance all the time. So why would a coach be an exception. |
Don't care. It's not my money.
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Luuuc #NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 21962
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Posted: 10/18/23 7:11 pm ::: |
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Nate Tibbetts is official
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PHOENIX â The Phoenix Mercury today named Nate Tibbetts the teamâs head coach. A widely-respected veteran coach with nearly two decades of experience in the NBA and NBA G League, Tibbetts will join Mercury General Manager Nick UâRen in bringing championship-level results back to the Mercury.
âNate is an excellent basketball coach and an even better person,â said UâRen. âI am excited to work with him as we build an organization that our players, fans and community will be proud of. His knowledge of the game, and commitment to creating a winning culture on and off the floor will be invaluable as we lead the Mercury into our next championship era.â
Named the 12th head coach in Mercury history, Tibbetts brings 18 years of professional coaching experience, including 12 years as an NBA assistant coach with the Orlando Magic, Portland Trail Blazers and Cleveland Cavaliers, and six years in the G League with the Tulsa 66ers and Sioux Falls Skyforce. |
Full article:
https://mercury.wnba.com/news/phoenix-mercury-name-nate-tibbetts-head-coach/
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 19824
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Posted: 10/18/23 7:54 pm ::: |
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shontay33 wrote: |
Rock Hard wrote: |
How much money an owner pays a coach should not concern your average fan. Professional sports is a business. An owner has the right to operate their business anyway they want to. Why should your average fan get upset about something they can not control?
Professional sports is about getting the best person to do the job. If you don't get the best people then your organization is not trying to win championships. As long as the owners are not doing something illegal or nefarious who cares?đ |
Would you take that same stance when it comes to players? I highly doubt it. Most of us complain about the salary of a player and their prefomance all the time. So why would a coach be an exception. |
First, I donât have a problem with player salaries - I want players to get paid as much as possible.
However, the key difference is that there is a salary cap on players, and there isnât one on coaches.
All this hire does is encourage owners to pay more for the coaches they want..which will draw more elite coaches to the league. And the league has a significant coaching issue.
_________________ âAnyone point out that a Donald Trump anagram is âLord Dampnutââ- Colin Mochrie
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009 Posts: 9012
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Posted: 10/19/23 9:42 am ::: |
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The Phoenix Mercuryâs leadership could have just had T-shirts made up with a middle finger on the front. The effect would have been the same. |
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"We need more male advocates and more women leaders who do the hiring," former Notre Dame coach Muffet McGraw said on X. "Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. Itâs time we started believing in the potential of women." |
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/nancy-armour/2023/10/19/phoenix-mercury-coaching-hire-makes-no-sense-wnba/71235096007/
_________________ "Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. Itâs time we started believing in the potential of women." âMuffet McGraw
âThank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,â Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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hyperetic
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 5417 Location: Fayetteville
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Posted: 10/19/23 12:32 pm ::: |
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mercfan3 wrote: |
First, I donât have a problem with player salaries - I want players to get paid as much as possible.
However, the key difference is that there is a salary cap on players, and there isnât one on coaches.
All this hire does is encourage owners to pay more for the coaches they want..which will draw more elite coaches to the league. And the league has a significant coaching issue. |
I kinda understand what you're getting at but I kinda don't. Based on what you wrote, owners can go crazy on paying coaches because they have no salary cap but capped the players so they could what...save money? I am also confused that the people on the court actually playing and creating the revenue stream are capped but the ones who aren't are not capped. Don't get me wrong. Coaches deserve what they can get. Players deserve that too. Doesn't the on-court talent deserve that same consideration you give to coaches since they are who the fans come to see, spend money for? |
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014 Posts: 3361
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Posted: 10/19/23 2:58 pm ::: |
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<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/bcs2sG50Bjxihh8AlD" width="480" height="246" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe>
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 19824
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Posted: 10/19/23 4:54 pm ::: |
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hyperetic wrote: |
mercfan3 wrote: |
First, I donât have a problem with player salaries - I want players to get paid as much as possible.
However, the key difference is that there is a salary cap on players, and there isnât one on coaches.
All this hire does is encourage owners to pay more for the coaches they want..which will draw more elite coaches to the league. And the league has a significant coaching issue. |
I kinda understand what you're getting at but I kinda don't. Based on what you wrote, owners can go crazy on paying coaches because they have no salary cap but capped the players so they could what...save money? I am also confused that the people on the court actually playing and creating the revenue stream are capped but the ones who aren't are not capped. Don't get me wrong. Coaches deserve what they can get. Players deserve that too. Doesn't the on-court talent deserve that same consideration you give to coaches since they are who the fans come to see, spend money for? |
I wish the WNBA didnât have a hard salary cap, but they do.
I didnât make the rules for the league, and I donât agree with some of them. But one of the things Ishbia talked about was spending money where he could to get an advantage for his team. He canât spend more money than the cap (unless he cheats) on players - he can spend whatever he wants on the coach he wants.
I think that idea of looking at the potential of women is a solid point - but Iâd argue itâs more for people like Fisher or Billups or Nash - who immediately went to the front of the line.
This guy has significant experience coaching in the NBA. Heâs been around some of the best basketball players and minds for decades. Thatâs not the same thing. We all thought it was ludicrous that Hammon didnât get an NBA job..and it looks even dumber on NBA teams parts now. This guys has as much experience as she does..
_________________ âAnyone point out that a Donald Trump anagram is âLord Dampnutââ- Colin Mochrie
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shontay33
Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 472
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Posted: 10/20/23 6:07 pm ::: |
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mercfan3 wrote: |
shontay33 wrote: |
Rock Hard wrote: |
How much money an owner pays a coach should not concern your average fan. Professional sports is a business. An owner has the right to operate their business anyway they want to. Why should your average fan get upset about something they can not control?
Professional sports is about getting the best person to do the job. If you don't get the best people then your organization is not trying to win championships. As long as the owners are not doing something illegal or nefarious who cares?đ |
Would you take that same stance when it comes to players? I highly doubt it. Most of us complain about the salary of a player and their prefomance all the time. So why would a coach be an exception. |
First, I donât have a problem with player salaries - I want players to get paid as much as possible.
However, the key difference is that there is a salary cap on players, and there isnât one on coaches.
All this hire does is encourage owners to pay more for the coaches they want..which will draw more elite coaches to the league. And the league has a significant coaching issue. |
As far as elite coaches, that remains to be seen. The NBA side has bad coaches as well. They continue to get jobs due to the good ole boy system. We don't know if the assistant coaches are even at that level because they never get a chance. This is why former players never stay in the league. The WNBA want to model its self after the NBA but, when it comes to coaching, there are no coaching trees to allow former players to learn from established coaches.
The coaching issue is due to the owners not being patient wich is the case with Phoenix.
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009 Posts: 9012
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Posted: 10/20/23 10:23 pm ::: |
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âThis is a new league for me,â Tibbetts said. âI want to be educated. Iâm going to talk to our players. I want to hear about the growth of this league. I want to hear and understand the struggles theyâve gone through.
âI know Iâm going to need to rely on our team to learn how this league works,â he added. âThatâs why Iâm here. I want to continue to see different things.â
So owner Mat Ishbia and general manager Nick UâRen see the Mercury as some kind of coaching externship. A learn-on-the-job program. |
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/nancy-armour/2023/10/20/aces-owner-mark-davis-mercury-owner-mat-ishbia-wnba-respect/71260225007/
_________________ "Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. Itâs time we started believing in the potential of women." âMuffet McGraw
âThank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,â Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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ChiSky54
Joined: 19 Jun 2019 Posts: 686 Location: Chicago
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Posted: 10/21/23 2:43 am ::: |
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Wow...has this man even been to a W game? Can he name any of the players? Yeah, basketball is basketball, but...dang!
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Or, more likely, they and Tibbetts are suffering from the same irrational confidence recognizable to any woman, in any workplace. The blind self-assuredness that makes some men believe theyâre capable of doing anything, whether theyâre actually qualified to or not.
UâRen had success with the Golden State Warriors. Tibbetts has been a career NBA assistant. How hard could leading a WNBA team possibly be?
âIâm excited for us to be able to take action in terms of building a basketball operations staff and coaching staff that reflects that diversity and provides opportunities to people of all backgrounds and all expertise and all skill sets,â UâRen said.
Including, apparently, those without expertise! |
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...This is about the Mercury taking someone with no experience in the womenâs game and thinking heâll have success just because.
Or thinking itâs OK to take a flier because itâs "only" a WNBA team.
...The WNBA is the pinnacle of the womenâs game and should be seen as such. Not a training ground for someone whose knowledge and, based on his career path, heart is in the menâs game... |
_________________ There is nothing new under the sun.
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 19824
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Posted: 10/21/23 6:29 am ::: |
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Okay, see those quotes make me nervous.
I donât see it as nefarious to hire someone who only has experience coaching men. Paul Westhead was one of my favorite WNBA coaches. And I donât think it shows that they seen the Mercury as an externship or stepping stone. Historically, itâs a lot easier to get an NBA job as an assistant than a WNBA coach.
I think itâs more of a âbasketball is basketballâ approach. Which I agree with my (Both ways!)
But he should have been knowledgeable about the league and womenâs basketball prior to being hired. Like, thatâs a baseline.
_________________ âAnyone point out that a Donald Trump anagram is âLord Dampnutââ- Colin Mochrie
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ChiSky54
Joined: 19 Jun 2019 Posts: 686 Location: Chicago
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Posted: 10/21/23 7:30 pm ::: |
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https://justwomenssports.com/reads/phoenix-mercury-nate-tibbetts-girl-dad-muffet-mcgraw-wnba-gender-2023/
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To add to the furor, the Mercury used the moniker âgirl dadâ to describe Tibbetts in their social media announcement of his hire, as if that is a relevant qualification for a head coach of a professional basketball league.
âImagine if Boy Mom was a qualification for coaching in the WNBA,â wrote one social media user.
âYouâre touting being a âGirl Dadâ as a qualification? Youâre hiring someone with zero experience in the womenâs game? AND youâre announcing it the night of Game 4?â wrote USA Today Sports columnist Nancy Armour. âTell me you donât care about womenâs sports without telling me you donât care about womenâs sports.â |
For Phx's sake, I hope it works out. Just seems like a bad start.
_________________ There is nothing new under the sun.
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9770
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009 Posts: 9012
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Posted: 10/21/23 10:53 pm ::: |
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That he's a "girl dad" and she isn't???
Now I understand.
_________________ "Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. Itâs time we started believing in the potential of women." âMuffet McGraw
âThank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,â Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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johnjohnW
Joined: 11 Aug 2020 Posts: 1898
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Posted: 10/22/23 8:25 am ::: |
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As skeptical as I am of this hire. Some of the criticism this guy is getting is absurd.
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Skyfan22
Joined: 12 Aug 2013 Posts: 528
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Posted: 10/22/23 1:17 pm ::: |
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Tibbetts will end up doing fine. The Merc have a lottery pick so they have a95% chance of getting the overall number one pick as they have only gotten the top pick when entering the lottery since they got DT. This will cause Bueckers to come out early to play with DT for her final year. Bueckers and Griner will immediately make them top tier and all will celebrate Tibbetts.
The only issue is that LA has only gotten 1st overall picks when being in the lottery and the same can be said for the storm. Allegedly the Fever cannot get the 4th pick by rule, so it will be interesting to see what can happen with the pingpong balls. The machine will probably explode and the league will decide to give number one picks to the 3 teams for the next 6 years.
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Iluvacc
Joined: 11 Jun 2005 Posts: 4167
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Posted: 10/22/23 5:35 pm ::: |
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I thought the Mercâs 2024 lottery pick is going to NY? The Libs have the right to swap picks with them correct?
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67111 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 10/22/23 5:39 pm ::: |
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Iluvacc wrote: |
I thought the Mercâs 2024 lottery pick is going to NY? The Libs have the right to swap picks with them correct? |
That's the 2025 pick
_________________ I'm sick and tired of the stories that you always tell
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You and Pinocchio are probably related
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008 Posts: 14125
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Posted: 10/22/23 5:40 pm ::: |
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Iluvacc wrote: |
I thought the Mercâs 2024 lottery pick is going to NY? The Libs have the right to swap picks with them correct? |
New York has the right to swap the first round picks in 2025 so Phoenix still owns their 2024 first round pick.
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Iluvacc
Joined: 11 Jun 2005 Posts: 4167
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Posted: 10/22/23 7:50 pm ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
Iluvacc wrote: |
I thought the Mercâs 2024 lottery pick is going to NY? The Libs have the right to swap picks with them correct? |
That's the 2025 pick |
Thanks!
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Iluvacc
Joined: 11 Jun 2005 Posts: 4167
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Posted: 10/22/23 7:50 pm ::: |
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GEF34 wrote: |
Iluvacc wrote: |
I thought the Mercâs 2024 lottery pick is going to NY? The Libs have the right to swap picks with them correct? |
New York has the right to swap the first round picks in 2025 so Phoenix still owns their 2024 first round pick. |
Thanks
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zune69
Joined: 27 May 2010 Posts: 8193
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Posted: 10/23/23 12:37 am ::: |
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If Phoenix gets the #1 pick and drafts Clark...I wouldn't be shocked if they give T.Charles a 2nd look....Tina's first stint with Phoenix was a recipe for disaster......Acquiring Howard, Nneka, Sabally or Parker (ATL) should also be an option.....If Clark/Bueckers aren't on the board when it's the Mercury's turn to select, they should target Edwards or Reese.
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ucbart
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 2829 Location: New York
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Posted: 10/23/23 5:11 am ::: |
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zune69 wrote: |
If Phoenix gets the #1 pick and drafts Clark...I wouldn't be shocked if they give T.Charles a 2nd look....Tina's first stint with Phoenix was a recipe for disaster......Acquiring Howard, Nneka, Sabally or Parker (ATL) should also be an option.....If Clark/Bueckers aren't on the board when it's the Mercury's turn to select, they should target Edwards or Reese. |
If anyone takes Angel Reese over Cameron Brink they need to have their heads examined.
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