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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 8264 Location: Heisenberg
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Posted: 04/07/14 1:08 pm ::: Do college players go to bed starving for lack of money? |
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I don't see why this would be a gender-specific issue, so what do we make of UConn guard Shabazz Napier's claim about full scholarship basketball athletes "starving":
"We do have hungry nights that we don't have enough money to get food and sometimes money is needed . . . ."
http://ctmirror.org/uconns-napier-on-altheletes-unionizing/
Tears or jeers?
I wonder how students with no scholarships at all manage to eat.
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011 Posts: 2819 Location: Indiana
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Posted: 04/07/14 1:35 pm ::: |
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Wow. Don't even get me started on that nonsense...
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 Posts: 16380 Location: Chicago
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Posted: 04/07/14 1:35 pm ::: Re: Do college players go to bed starving for lack of money? |
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GlennMacGrady wrote: |
I don't see why this would be a gender-specific issue, so what do we make of UConn guard Shabazz Napier's claim about full scholarship basketball athletes "starving":
"We do have hungry nights that we don't have enough money to get food and sometimes money is needed . . . ."
http://ctmirror.org/uconns-napier-on-altheletes-unionizing/
Tears or jeers?
I wonder how students with no scholarships at all manage to eat. |
That is perhaps the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard.
I don't care who wins tonight, but now I have decided to root for Kentucky based on this quote.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67111 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 04/07/14 1:42 pm ::: |
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There's certainly no harm in athletes unionizing. A little hyperbole is typical in such situations.
Quote: |
I wonder how students with no scholarships at all manage to eat. |
They have money making options the NCAA does not allow for "student athletes".
_________________ I'm sick and tired of the stories that you always tell
Shakespeare couldn't tell a story that well
See, you're the largest liar that was ever created
You and Pinocchio are probably related
Full of criss-crossed fits, you lie all the time
Your tongue should be embarrassed, you're a threat to mankind
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011 Posts: 2819 Location: Indiana
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Posted: 04/07/14 1:46 pm ::: |
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I would tell these student-athletes to be careful what they wish for...God, I hope in the future this works out so they get paid and then they are charged for every single thing they get, from the shoes to travel, meals, books, room, board, costs of officials, and all the rental fees for basketballs, court time, professional trainers, locker rooms...and then they get to pay taxes on it afterwards.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63930
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Posted: 04/07/14 2:17 pm ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
There's certainly no harm in athletes unionizing. A little hyperbole is typical in such situations.
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I wonder how students with no scholarships at all manage to eat. |
They have money making options the NCAA does not allow for "student athletes". |
Gifts from mommy and daddy?
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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hyperetic
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 5417 Location: Fayetteville
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Posted: 04/07/14 2:40 pm ::: |
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purduefanatic wrote: |
I would tell these student-athletes to be careful what they wish for...God, I hope in the future this works out so they get paid and then they are charged for every single thing they get, from the shoes to travel, meals, books, room, board, costs of officials, and all the rental fees for basketballs, court time, professional trainers, locker rooms...and then they get to pay taxes on it afterwards. |
What is it that you do for a living purdue fanatic? Should you be required to pay for everything you need to do your job? Should you have to pay to be able to park at your place of business? Should a percentage of your pay go to the upkeep of the facility in which you work? How dangerous is your job? Is there a possibility you could have receive a debilitating injury everyday you go to work?
Scholarships are wonderful and serve there purpose to a point. But there is more to the situation than that. The NCAA's profits rival the NFL now. So none of that beyond scholarships should be given the the actual earners of that money? Not to mention, disallowing several legitimate avenues for the kids to make pocket money, take care of themselves beyond the basics. |
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011 Posts: 2819 Location: Indiana
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Posted: 04/07/14 2:49 pm ::: |
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hyperetic wrote: |
purduefanatic wrote: |
I would tell these student-athletes to be careful what they wish for...God, I hope in the future this works out so they get paid and then they are charged for every single thing they get, from the shoes to travel, meals, books, room, board, costs of officials, and all the rental fees for basketballs, court time, professional trainers, locker rooms...and then they get to pay taxes on it afterwards. |
What is it that you do for a living purdue fanatic? Should you be required to pay for everything you need to do your job? Should you have to pay to be able to park at your place of business? Should a percentage of your pay go to the upkeep of the facility in which you work? How dangerous is your job? Is there a possibility you could have receive a debilitating injury everyday you go to work?
Scholarships are wonderful and serve there purpose to a point. But there is more to the situation than that. The NCAA's profits rival the NFL now. So none of that beyond scholarships should be given the the actual earners of that money? Not to mention, disallowing several legitimate avenues for the kids to make pocket money, take care of themselves beyond the basics. |
I am self-employed, so yeah, I pay for EVERYTHING! I pay a mortgage, so yes, I pay to park at my business and I pay for all the upkeep as well. My job can be dangerous at times, as I have to drive on the road an awful lot. Accidents happen constantly...
So, what are the revenues of women's field hockey? What about men's track & field? Fencing? How much money does women's swimming & diving generate for each school and the NCAA?
You cannot just pull football or men's basketball out of the equation all by themselves. Besides, how much money does football generate for the NCAA? The NCAA doesn't control bowl games and they don't get money from games during the regular season. The NCAA really only has something to do with football at the FCS level and below...and they sure as hell aren't making any money of the sport from there. The only sport that really brings in money is MBB...and look how much money the NCAA spends on supporting national championships for nearly 4 dozen sports, not to mention sending to schools and conferences.
I will never say the NCAA shouldn't be restructured and adjusted to a certain degree, but this IMO is not the answer.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 8264 Location: Heisenberg
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Posted: 04/07/14 3:08 pm ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
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I wonder how students with no scholarships at all manage to eat. |
They have money making options the NCAA does not allow for "student athletes". |
What disallowed options do you have in mind?
Student-athletes can be awarded financial aid covering all room and board (equivalent to 21 meals per week) in addition to tuition, all fees and all required books. They can have on- or off-campus employment. They can get money from parents.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 04/07/14 3:52 pm ::: |
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GlennMacGrady wrote: |
pilight wrote: |
Quote: |
I wonder how students with no scholarships at all manage to eat. |
They have money making options the NCAA does not allow for "student athletes". |
What disallowed options do you have in mind?
Student-athletes can be awarded financial aid covering all room and board (equivalent to 21 meals per week) in addition to tuition, all fees and all required books. They can have on- or off-campus employment. They can get money from parents. |
Pell Grants, are, I believe, one of the most common means of supplementing scholarship money for kids without other financial means.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 8264 Location: Heisenberg
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Posted: 04/07/14 4:36 pm ::: |
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ArtBest23 wrote: |
GlennMacGrady wrote: |
pilight wrote: |
Quote: |
I wonder how students with no scholarships at all manage to eat. |
They have money making options the NCAA does not allow for "student athletes". |
What disallowed options do you have in mind?
Student-athletes can be awarded financial aid covering all room and board (equivalent to 21 meals per week) in addition to tuition, all fees and all required books. They can have on- or off-campus employment. They can get money from parents. |
Pell Grants, are, I believe, one of the most common means of supplementing scholarship money for kids without other financial means. |
Well, I wouldn't have thought of a Pell Grant as what was meant by a "money making option". In any event, athletes are allowed to receive Pell Grants and other governmental awards so long as it all, in conjuction with the school's financial assistance, doesn't exceed a "cost of attendance" figure that the school must maintain for all students.
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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012 Posts: 2539
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Posted: 04/07/14 9:12 pm ::: Really |
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So you think there are kids out there who don't go hungry? Believe me I have a few friends who would disagree with you on a personal level. There are many kids without support and guidance, they rely on coaches who I wouldn't let look after my dog and subsequently are hurt in the process in both the environment and getting stuck in classes which the coach thinks are easy to keep them on the court more.
Just think about the number of kids in sports and then recognize that NOT everyone is surrounded by good people. There are some huge salaries out there while kids spend hours on the court, in the weight room, in conditioning, in film, on the road, oh and then they are supposed to be students also.
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hyperetic
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 5417 Location: Fayetteville
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Posted: 04/07/14 9:45 pm ::: |
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purduefanatic wrote: |
hyperetic wrote: |
purduefanatic wrote: |
I would tell these student-athletes to be careful what they wish for...God, I hope in the future this works out so they get paid and then they are charged for every single thing they get, from the shoes to travel, meals, books, room, board, costs of officials, and all the rental fees for basketballs, court time, professional trainers, locker rooms...and then they get to pay taxes on it afterwards. |
What is it that you do for a living purdue fanatic? Should you be required to pay for everything you need to do your job? Should you have to pay to be able to park at your place of business? Should a percentage of your pay go to the upkeep of the facility in which you work? How dangerous is your job? Is there a possibility you could have receive a debilitating injury everyday you go to work?
Scholarships are wonderful and serve there purpose to a point. But there is more to the situation than that. The NCAA's profits rival the NFL now. So none of that beyond scholarships should be given the the actual earners of that money? Not to mention, disallowing several legitimate avenues for the kids to make pocket money, take care of themselves beyond the basics. |
I am self-employed, so yeah, I pay for EVERYTHING! I pay a mortgage, so yes, I pay to park at my business and I pay for all the upkeep as well. My job can be dangerous at times, as I have to drive on the road an awful lot. Accidents happen constantly...
So, what are the revenues of women's field hockey? What about men's track & field? Fencing? How much money does women's swimming & diving generate for each school and the NCAA?
You cannot just pull football or men's basketball out of the equation all by themselves. Besides, how much money does football generate for the NCAA? The NCAA doesn't control bowl games and they don't get money from games during the regular season. The NCAA really only has something to do with football at the FCS level and below...and they sure as hell aren't making any money of the sport from there. The only sport that really brings in money is MBB...and look how much money the NCAA spends on supporting national championships for nearly 4 dozen sports, not to mention sending to schools and conferences.
I will never say the NCAA shouldn't be restructured and adjusted to a certain degree, but this IMO is not the answer. |
The current system is disproportionately in the favor of the NCAA and its member schools. We're talking Div I here. Div.II and Div III don't generate comparable income. Div III doesn't even give out scholarships. I don't know how those kids do it.
The NCAA makes money directly and indirectly off of collegiate sports. If you're interested here is a pdf from the NCAA itself about where its revenue comes from and how its spent: https://www.ncaapublications.com/p-4306-revenues-and-expenses-2004-2012-ncaa-division-i-intercollegiate-athletics-programs-report.aspx
Also, here's a breakdown of the revenue just from basketball in the 2012-2013 season. http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2014/03/27/ncaa-approaching-billion-per-year-amid-challenges-players/6973767/ |
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009 Posts: 9012
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ChicagoAnnie
Joined: 04 Sep 2009 Posts: 9199 Location: St. Paul, MN
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Posted: 04/07/14 10:49 pm ::: Re: Do college players go to bed starving for lack of money? |
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GlennMacGrady wrote: |
I don't see why this would be a gender-specific issue, so what do we make of UConn guard Shabazz Napier's claim about full scholarship basketball athletes "starving":
"We do have hungry nights that we don't have enough money to get food and sometimes money is needed . . . ."
http://ctmirror.org/uconns-napier-on-altheletes-unionizing/
Tears or jeers?
I wonder how students with no scholarships at all manage to eat. |
but non-athletes are allowed to work for extra money while in school. Depending on the scholarship most athletes cannot. People forget that when comparing to regular students.
I don't think athletes should be paid a salary, but there needs to be an increase in stipend with the equivalent payment of a part time job. And I want those students to be able to make money off of their own name. This includes autographs, merchandise sales, et al with legit vendors.
I'm sick of everyone else stuffing their pockets off the backs of these kids. The Ohio State AD getting that $18k bonus off of that wrestler's title win took the cake for me. And, that's a damn non revenue sport.
_________________ The meteor cannot come fast enough. Start this thing over.
Last edited by ChicagoAnnie on 04/07/14 11:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 04/07/14 11:03 pm ::: Re: Do college players go to bed starving for lack of money? |
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ChicagoAnnie wrote: |
GlennMacGrady wrote: |
I don't see why this would be a gender-specific issue, so what do we make of UConn guard Shabazz Napier's claim about full scholarship basketball athletes "starving":
"We do have hungry nights that we don't have enough money to get food and sometimes money is needed . . . ."
http://ctmirror.org/uconns-napier-on-altheletes-unionizing/
Tears or jeers?
I wonder how students with no scholarships at all manage to eat. |
but non-athletes are allowed to work for extra money while in school. The athletes on full rides cannot. People forget that. |
Of course they are taking out loans to pay the $60,000 in tuition room and board that athletes aren't paying.
I don't see a lot of people turning down athletic scholarships because they are so much better off working in the dining hall instead. Rather I see parents going to extraordinary lengths with coaches and camps and travel teams and all the rest to put their kids in a position to receive an athletic scholarship because it's an incredibly beneficial opportunity
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 8264 Location: Heisenberg
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Posted: 04/07/14 11:13 pm ::: Re: Do college players go to bed starving for lack of money? |
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ChicagoAnnie wrote: |
GlennMacGrady wrote: |
I don't see why this would be a gender-specific issue, so what do we make of UConn guard Shabazz Napier's claim about full scholarship basketball athletes "starving":
"We do have hungry nights that we don't have enough money to get food and sometimes money is needed . . . ."
http://ctmirror.org/uconns-napier-on-altheletes-unionizing/
Tears or jeers?
I wonder how students with no scholarships at all manage to eat. |
but non-athletes are allowed to work for extra money while in school. Depending on the scholarship most athletes cannot. |
Not so, Annie. Student-athletes are allowed to earn income from legitimate on- or off-campus jobs without the earnings counting against the cost attendance limit. NCAA Bylaw 15.2.7.
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ChicagoAnnie
Joined: 04 Sep 2009 Posts: 9199 Location: St. Paul, MN
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Posted: 04/07/14 11:23 pm ::: Re: Do college players go to bed starving for lack of money? |
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ArtBest23 wrote: |
ChicagoAnnie wrote: |
GlennMacGrady wrote: |
I don't see why this would be a gender-specific issue, so what do we make of UConn guard Shabazz Napier's claim about full scholarship basketball athletes "starving":
"We do have hungry nights that we don't have enough money to get food and sometimes money is needed . . . ."
http://ctmirror.org/uconns-napier-on-altheletes-unionizing/
Tears or jeers?
I wonder how students with no scholarships at all manage to eat. |
but non-athletes are allowed to work for extra money while in school. The athletes on full rides cannot. People forget that. |
Of course they are taking out loans to pay the $60,000 in tuition room and board that athletes aren't paying.
I don't see a lot of people turning down athletic scholarships because they are so much better off working in the dining hall instead. Rather I see parents going to extraordinary lengths with coaches and camps and travel teams and all the rest to put their kids in a position to receive an athletic scholarship because it's an incredibly beneficial opportunity |
CBS isn't paying the NCAA a billion dollars for people to watch little Timmy play with his chemistry set. The athlete is providing a service and gets the scholarship in exchange, that's fine. But, it's still not a fair comparison.
The 60k kid needs money for personal expense can go find work. Lift the restrictions on the athletes, and stop the greedy pocket tuffing is all I'm saying.
_________________ The meteor cannot come fast enough. Start this thing over.
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ChicagoAnnie
Joined: 04 Sep 2009 Posts: 9199 Location: St. Paul, MN
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Posted: 04/07/14 11:26 pm ::: Re: Do college players go to bed starving for lack of money? |
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GlennMacGrady wrote: |
ChicagoAnnie wrote: |
GlennMacGrady wrote: |
I don't see why this would be a gender-specific issue, so what do we make of UConn guard Shabazz Napier's claim about full scholarship basketball athletes "starving":
"We do have hungry nights that we don't have enough money to get food and sometimes money is needed . . . ."
http://ctmirror.org/uconns-napier-on-altheletes-unionizing/
Tears or jeers?
I wonder how students with no scholarships at all manage to eat. |
but non-athletes are allowed to work for extra money while in school. Depending on the scholarship most athletes cannot. |
Not so, Annie. Student-athletes are allowed to earn income from legitimate on- or off-campus jobs without the earnings counting against the cost attendance limit. NCAA Bylaw 15.2.7. |
tell this to a NCAA d1 football player who is putting in full time hours on their sport, with some of them practically on campus all year round. That bylaw is a farce for the revenue producing programs with superstar athletes. After a yr, $2000 gross pay with muddied qualifications that would make things extremely difficult for an athlete with fame. I give up, but I just feel bad for the kids and I agree with jay bilas's comments on this issue 100% .
_________________ The meteor cannot come fast enough. Start this thing over.
Last edited by ChicagoAnnie on 04/07/14 11:42 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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hyperetic
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 5417 Location: Fayetteville
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Posted: 04/07/14 11:38 pm ::: Re: Do college players go to bed starving for lack of money? |
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GlennMacGrady wrote: |
ChicagoAnnie wrote: |
GlennMacGrady wrote: |
I don't see why this would be a gender-specific issue, so what do we make of UConn guard Shabazz Napier's claim about full scholarship basketball athletes "starving":
"We do have hungry nights that we don't have enough money to get food and sometimes money is needed . . . ."
http://ctmirror.org/uconns-napier-on-altheletes-unionizing/
Tears or jeers?
I wonder how students with no scholarships at all manage to eat. |
but non-athletes are allowed to work for extra money while in school. Depending on the scholarship most athletes cannot. |
Not so, Annie. Student-athletes are allowed to earn income from legitimate on- or off-campus jobs without the earnings counting against the cost attendance limit. NCAA Bylaw 15.2.7. |
To the limit of $2000 over their total scholarship. If their car needs a new engine, they need non-sport related transportation, they want to help a family member or friend in need, various other personal expenses, etc. it doesn't go very far. Not to mention along with a full load of classes, two-a-day practices, weight room training, study hall to try to add a part-time job to it?
This "full cost of attendance" thing looks promising: http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/6765762/full-cost-attendance-student-athletes-gaining-traction |
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bucks4now
Joined: 28 Feb 2006 Posts: 723
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Posted: 04/08/14 9:35 am ::: |
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My first thought was "than how can your mom afford to be at every single game. I don't know how many times they showed her on their games this year." It cost lots of money to do all that traveling.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11215
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Posted: 04/08/14 9:55 am ::: |
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The issue to me is the inequity:
The NCAA and colleges earn hundreds of millions of dollars a year selling the services of athletes to television networks and ticket buyers.
Those athletes who supply the services in many cases do not get the portion of those revenues that their labor produces. In many cases, of course, the athletes get more in return than their labor produces, but overall, the economic structure of the system is hugely tilted toward the NCAA and the colleges.
So then, how do you balance the inequity?
I don't know that paying athletes directly makes sense unless you only pay the athletes that participate in revenue-positive sports. Even then, there's an issue, because do you then require athletes in non-revenue sports to pay for the cost of their sport?
Here's a thought: Let boosters pay whatever they want to whatever athlete they want. We all know it's a corrupt system, with under-the-table benefits that can't be controlled. Why not just let boosters give athletes jobs/sinecures and pay them whatever they want?
So Johnny Manziel now makes $50,000 a year, say; the top sprinter maybe gets $5,000. Or not.
Those athletes that generate public support will be reimbursed; those that don't, won't.
The boosters can be required to register so there's some control, but why not just make it explicit what's really going on, and let the market make the decision as to what each athlete is worth?
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 Posts: 16380 Location: Chicago
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Posted: 04/08/14 9:58 am ::: |
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For all the talk about the millions that universities supposedly make off these athletes, almost all athletic departments lose money.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 04/08/14 10:00 am ::: |
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I really don't get this stuff about "The NCAA is making billions of dollars."
What do people think the NCAA is? There's no shareholders or venture capitalists getting rich. The money goes to run the 89 championships, 87 of which lose money. It goes to run the compliance and qualification and other programs. And the rest gets distributed back to schools.
And at the school level, almost all of them are losing piles of money on athletic programs. Schools like Maryland and Temple have been slashing entire sports because they can't afford to keep operating the teams. Maryland left a conference it helped to found because it was drowning in red ink and thought the change would help cover the losses.
Where the heck do people think the money is supposed to come from to support field hockey, and softball and swimming and track and lacrosse and soccer and yes, women's basketball?
So we're just supposed to tell the tens of thousands of athletes to go screw themselves because instead of having your sport, we're going to pay a pile of money to a very tiny handful of football players and one-year-wonder men's basketball players? Yeah, that's a great idea.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 04/08/14 10:02 am ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
In many cases, of course, the athletes get more in return than their labor produces |
"Many" cases? Or 99.9% of the cases?
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