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shontay33



Joined: 01 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: 10/18/23 3:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Rock Hard wrote:
How much money an owner pays a coach should not concern your average fan. Professional sports is a business. An owner has the right to operate their business anyway they want to. Why should your average fan get upset about something they can not control?
Professional sports is about getting the best person to do the job. If you don't get the best people then your organization is not trying to win championships. As long as the owners are not doing something illegal or nefarious who cares?🙄


Would you take that same stance when it comes to players? I highly doubt it. Most of us complain about the salary of a player and their prefomance all the time. So why would a coach be an exception.
shontay33



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PostPosted: 10/18/23 3:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Admiral_Needa wrote:
Quote:
ESPN Sources: Orlando Magic assistant Nate Tibbetts is finalizing a deal to become the new head coach of the Phoenix Mercury. Tibbetts — who’s also been an assistant with Portland and Cleveland — will become the highest paid coach in WNBA history.

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1714057965269922132



Shocked Exclamation


I had the same reaction. I was also hoping that they would consider a former player who has coaching experience or someone who has paid their dues in the W as an assistant coach since they decided to not go with Niki Blue. There are plenty of ladies who fit this.
This leads me to believe that it's the good ole boy's system at play where they bring in NBA guys. I guess they are trying to do what they did when Westhead and Gaines were here. Gaines used this as what he thought was a stepping stone to becoming an NBA head coach. I suspect that Tibbets is doing the same thing for his resume.

He is definitely qualified for this position but the question is, how long is he willing to stay? Is this a temporary thing until another job is open next
summer? The other question is what direction is Phoenix going into regarding their players? Do they get younger players that fit Tibbets system and allow them to develop or do they go and get a bunch of older vets and hope that that group can win a championship(No one is beating Vegas for the next couple of years so no need to even go there)?
Rock Hard



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PostPosted: 10/18/23 4:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
shontay33 wrote:
Rock Hard wrote:
How much money an owner pays a coach should not concern your average fan. Professional sports is a business. An owner has the right to operate their business anyway they want to. Why should your average fan get upset about something they can not control?
Professional sports is about getting the best person to do the job. If you don't get the best people then your organization is not trying to win championships. As long as the owners are not doing something illegal or nefarious who cares?🙄


Would you take that same stance when it comes to players? I highly doubt it. Most of us complain about the salary of a player and their prefomance all the time. So why would a coach be an exception.

Don't care. It's not my money.



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PostPosted: 10/18/23 7:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Nate Tibbetts is official

Quote:
PHOENIX – The Phoenix Mercury today named Nate Tibbetts the team’s head coach. A widely-respected veteran coach with nearly two decades of experience in the NBA and NBA G League, Tibbetts will join Mercury General Manager Nick U’Ren in bringing championship-level results back to the Mercury.

“Nate is an excellent basketball coach and an even better person,” said U’Ren. “I am excited to work with him as we build an organization that our players, fans and community will be proud of. His knowledge of the game, and commitment to creating a winning culture on and off the floor will be invaluable as we lead the Mercury into our next championship era.”

Named the 12th head coach in Mercury history, Tibbetts brings 18 years of professional coaching experience, including 12 years as an NBA assistant coach with the Orlando Magic, Portland Trail Blazers and Cleveland Cavaliers, and six years in the G League with the Tulsa 66ers and Sioux Falls Skyforce.


Full article:
https://mercury.wnba.com/news/phoenix-mercury-name-nate-tibbetts-head-coach/



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mercfan3



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PostPosted: 10/18/23 7:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
shontay33 wrote:
Rock Hard wrote:
How much money an owner pays a coach should not concern your average fan. Professional sports is a business. An owner has the right to operate their business anyway they want to. Why should your average fan get upset about something they can not control?
Professional sports is about getting the best person to do the job. If you don't get the best people then your organization is not trying to win championships. As long as the owners are not doing something illegal or nefarious who cares?🙄


Would you take that same stance when it comes to players? I highly doubt it. Most of us complain about the salary of a player and their prefomance all the time. So why would a coach be an exception.


First, I don’t have a problem with player salaries - I want players to get paid as much as possible.

However, the key difference is that there is a salary cap on players, and there isn’t one on coaches.

All this hire does is encourage owners to pay more for the coaches they want..which will draw more elite coaches to the league. And the league has a significant coaching issue.



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Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 10/19/23 9:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Quote:
The Phoenix Mercury’s leadership could have just had T-shirts made up with a middle finger on the front. The effect would have been the same.

Quote:
"We need more male advocates and more women leaders who do the hiring," former Notre Dame coach Muffet McGraw said on X. "Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/nancy-armour/2023/10/19/phoenix-mercury-coaching-hire-makes-no-sense-wnba/71235096007/



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hyperetic



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: 10/19/23 12:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
mercfan3 wrote:

First, I don’t have a problem with player salaries - I want players to get paid as much as possible.

However, the key difference is that there is a salary cap on players, and there isn’t one on coaches.

All this hire does is encourage owners to pay more for the coaches they want..which will draw more elite coaches to the league. And the league has a significant coaching issue.


I kinda understand what you're getting at but I kinda don't. Based on what you wrote, owners can go crazy on paying coaches because they have no salary cap but capped the players so they could what...save money? I am also confused that the people on the court actually playing and creating the revenue stream are capped but the ones who aren't are not capped. Don't get me wrong. Coaches deserve what they can get. Players deserve that too. Doesn't the on-court talent deserve that same consideration you give to coaches since they are who the fans come to see, spend money for?
Silky Johnson



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PostPosted: 10/19/23 2:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Ex-Ref wrote:
Quote:
"We need more male advocates and more women leaders who do the hiring," former Notre Dame coach Muffet McGraw said on X. "Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/nancy-armour/2023/10/19/phoenix-mercury-coaching-hire-makes-no-sense-wnba/71235096007/


<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/bcs2sG50Bjxihh8AlD" width="480" height="246" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe>



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mercfan3



Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 10/19/23 4:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
hyperetic wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:

First, I don’t have a problem with player salaries - I want players to get paid as much as possible.

However, the key difference is that there is a salary cap on players, and there isn’t one on coaches.

All this hire does is encourage owners to pay more for the coaches they want..which will draw more elite coaches to the league. And the league has a significant coaching issue.


I kinda understand what you're getting at but I kinda don't. Based on what you wrote, owners can go crazy on paying coaches because they have no salary cap but capped the players so they could what...save money? I am also confused that the people on the court actually playing and creating the revenue stream are capped but the ones who aren't are not capped. Don't get me wrong. Coaches deserve what they can get. Players deserve that too. Doesn't the on-court talent deserve that same consideration you give to coaches since they are who the fans come to see, spend money for?


I wish the WNBA didn’t have a hard salary cap, but they do.

I didn’t make the rules for the league, and I don’t agree with some of them. But one of the things Ishbia talked about was spending money where he could to get an advantage for his team. He can’t spend more money than the cap (unless he cheats) on players - he can spend whatever he wants on the coach he wants.

I think that idea of looking at the potential of women is a solid point - but I’d argue it’s more for people like Fisher or Billups or Nash - who immediately went to the front of the line.

This guy has significant experience coaching in the NBA. He’s been around some of the best basketball players and minds for decades. That’s not the same thing. We all thought it was ludicrous that Hammon didn’t get an NBA job..and it looks even dumber on NBA teams parts now. This guys has as much experience as she does..



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shontay33



Joined: 01 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: 10/20/23 6:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
mercfan3 wrote:
shontay33 wrote:
Rock Hard wrote:
How much money an owner pays a coach should not concern your average fan. Professional sports is a business. An owner has the right to operate their business anyway they want to. Why should your average fan get upset about something they can not control?
Professional sports is about getting the best person to do the job. If you don't get the best people then your organization is not trying to win championships. As long as the owners are not doing something illegal or nefarious who cares?🙄


Would you take that same stance when it comes to players? I highly doubt it. Most of us complain about the salary of a player and their prefomance all the time. So why would a coach be an exception.


First, I don’t have a problem with player salaries - I want players to get paid as much as possible.

However, the key difference is that there is a salary cap on players, and there isn’t one on coaches.

All this hire does is encourage owners to pay more for the coaches they want..which will draw more elite coaches to the league. And the league has a significant coaching issue.


As far as elite coaches, that remains to be seen. The NBA side has bad coaches as well. They continue to get jobs due to the good ole boy system. We don't know if the assistant coaches are even at that level because they never get a chance. This is why former players never stay in the league. The WNBA want to model its self after the NBA but, when it comes to coaching, there are no coaching trees to allow former players to learn from established coaches.

The coaching issue is due to the owners not being patient wich is the case with Phoenix.
Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 10/20/23 10:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Quote:
“This is a new league for me,” Tibbetts said. “I want to be educated. I’m going to talk to our players. I want to hear about the growth of this league. I want to hear and understand the struggles they’ve gone through.

“I know I’m going to need to rely on our team to learn how this league works,” he added. “That’s why I’m here. I want to continue to see different things.”

So owner Mat Ishbia and general manager Nick U’Ren see the Mercury as some kind of coaching externship. A learn-on-the-job program.



https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/nancy-armour/2023/10/20/aces-owner-mark-davis-mercury-owner-mat-ishbia-wnba-respect/71260225007/



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"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw

“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
ChiSky54



Joined: 19 Jun 2019
Posts: 672
Location: Chicago


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PostPosted: 10/21/23 2:43 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Wow...has this man even been to a W game? Can he name any of the players? Yeah, basketball is basketball, but...dang!

Quote:
Or, more likely, they and Tibbetts are suffering from the same irrational confidence recognizable to any woman, in any workplace. The blind self-assuredness that makes some men believe they’re capable of doing anything, whether they’re actually qualified to or not.

U’Ren had success with the Golden State Warriors. Tibbetts has been a career NBA assistant. How hard could leading a WNBA team possibly be?

“I’m excited for us to be able to take action in terms of building a basketball operations staff and coaching staff that reflects that diversity and provides opportunities to people of all backgrounds and all expertise and all skill sets,” U’Ren said.

Including, apparently, those without expertise!

Quote:
...This is about the Mercury taking someone with no experience in the women’s game and thinking he’ll have success just because.

Or thinking it’s OK to take a flier because it’s "only" a WNBA team.

...The WNBA is the pinnacle of the women’s game and should be seen as such. Not a training ground for someone whose knowledge and, based on his career path, heart is in the men’s game...



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mercfan3



Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 10/21/23 6:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Okay, see those quotes make me nervous.

I don’t see it as nefarious to hire someone who only has experience coaching men. Paul Westhead was one of my favorite WNBA coaches. And I don’t think it shows that they seen the Mercury as an externship or stepping stone. Historically, it’s a lot easier to get an NBA job as an assistant than a WNBA coach.

I think it’s more of a “basketball is basketball” approach. Which I agree with my (Both ways!)

But he should have been knowledgeable about the league and women’s basketball prior to being hired. Like, that’s a baseline.



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ChiSky54



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PostPosted: 10/21/23 7:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
https://justwomenssports.com/reads/phoenix-mercury-nate-tibbetts-girl-dad-muffet-mcgraw-wnba-gender-2023/

Quote:
To add to the furor, the Mercury used the moniker “girl dad” to describe Tibbetts in their social media announcement of his hire, as if that is a relevant qualification for a head coach of a professional basketball league.

“Imagine if Boy Mom was a qualification for coaching in the WNBA,” wrote one social media user.

“You’re touting being a ‘Girl Dad’ as a qualification? You’re hiring someone with zero experience in the women’s game? AND you’re announcing it the night of Game 4?” wrote USA Today Sports columnist Nancy Armour. “Tell me you don’t care about women’s sports without telling me you don’t care about women’s sports.”

For Phx's sake, I hope it works out. Just seems like a bad start.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 10/21/23 8:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
New Phoenix Mercury head coach Nate Tibbetts ‘not worried’ about backlash
Quote:

For U’Ren, the decision not to stick with Blue as the permanent head coach came down to what Tibbetts could bring to the table.


Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 10/21/23 10:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
tfan wrote:
New Phoenix Mercury head coach Nate Tibbetts ‘not worried’ about backlash
Quote:

For U’Ren, the decision not to stick with Blue as the permanent head coach came down to what Tibbetts could bring to the table.


That he's a "girl dad" and she isn't???

Now I understand.



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"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw

“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
johnjohnW



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PostPosted: 10/22/23 8:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
As skeptical as I am of this hire. Some of the criticism this guy is getting is absurd.
Skyfan22



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PostPosted: 10/22/23 1:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Tibbetts will end up doing fine. The Merc have a lottery pick so they have a95% chance of getting the overall number one pick as they have only gotten the top pick when entering the lottery since they got DT. This will cause Bueckers to come out early to play with DT for her final year. Bueckers and Griner will immediately make them top tier and all will celebrate Tibbetts.

The only issue is that LA has only gotten 1st overall picks when being in the lottery and the same can be said for the storm. Allegedly the Fever cannot get the 4th pick by rule, so it will be interesting to see what can happen with the pingpong balls. The machine will probably explode and the league will decide to give number one picks to the 3 teams for the next 6 years.
Iluvacc



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PostPosted: 10/22/23 5:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
I thought the Merc’s 2024 lottery pick is going to NY? The Libs have the right to swap picks with them correct?
pilight



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PostPosted: 10/22/23 5:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Iluvacc wrote:
I thought the Merc’s 2024 lottery pick is going to NY? The Libs have the right to swap picks with them correct?


That's the 2025 pick



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GEF34



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PostPosted: 10/22/23 5:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Iluvacc wrote:
I thought the Merc’s 2024 lottery pick is going to NY? The Libs have the right to swap picks with them correct?


New York has the right to swap the first round picks in 2025 so Phoenix still owns their 2024 first round pick.
Iluvacc



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PostPosted: 10/22/23 7:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
pilight wrote:
Iluvacc wrote:
I thought the Merc’s 2024 lottery pick is going to NY? The Libs have the right to swap picks with them correct?


That's the 2025 pick


Thanks!
Iluvacc



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PostPosted: 10/22/23 7:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
GEF34 wrote:
Iluvacc wrote:
I thought the Merc’s 2024 lottery pick is going to NY? The Libs have the right to swap picks with them correct?


New York has the right to swap the first round picks in 2025 so Phoenix still owns their 2024 first round pick.


Thanks
zune69



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PostPosted: 10/23/23 12:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
If Phoenix gets the #1 pick and drafts Clark...I wouldn't be shocked if they give T.Charles a 2nd look....Tina's first stint with Phoenix was a recipe for disaster......Acquiring Howard, Nneka, Sabally or Parker (ATL) should also be an option.....If Clark/Bueckers aren't on the board when it's the Mercury's turn to select, they should target Edwards or Reese.
ucbart



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PostPosted: 10/23/23 5:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
zune69 wrote:
If Phoenix gets the #1 pick and drafts Clark...I wouldn't be shocked if they give T.Charles a 2nd look....Tina's first stint with Phoenix was a recipe for disaster......Acquiring Howard, Nneka, Sabally or Parker (ATL) should also be an option.....If Clark/Bueckers aren't on the board when it's the Mercury's turn to select, they should target Edwards or Reese.


If anyone takes Angel Reese over Cameron Brink they need to have their heads examined.
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