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How Much Loyalty Is Due A Team?
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hyperetic



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 5344
Location: Fayetteville


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PostPosted: 02/17/20 11:23 pm    ::: How Much Loyalty Is Due A Team? Reply Reply with quote

There is a negative stigma associated with not being a loyal fan. If you live in the same town or region as a team, its even moreso. Persisting through changes in personnel, on and off court, winning and losing seasons, rising ticket and merchandise prices, etc. grants you the title of loyal fan. So where is the line of demarcation? Does there come a time when a loyal fan can say enough is enough without the negative stigma? (Yeah I know it doesn't really matter what others think and that its up to the person but still its sports culture).

Full disclosure, this is personal. I don't live in a W. area so my first choice of teams was Sacto, Ruthie, Yo and all them. When they disbanded I moved to the Mercury and Taurasi. When I heard that they were moving the Detroit Shock (an also favorite of the time, Deanna Nolan was great point) to Tulsa, it was close enough that I could catch a few games live. I felt compelled to support. I supported them through the loss of the best Detroit Shock players, the leadership of Nolan Richardson, losing seasons and through the move to Dallas and name change to the Wings. Tulsa getting SkyDiggs was huge to me. I felt like things were looking up. I supported through some personnel changes big and small. I really didn't want to see Sky go. That may just be me but I didn't. So how much of enough is enough? I guess I am just venting. Maybe I should do like I do with the NBA and not support a specific team per say but specific players. How I got that way about the NBA is another long story.
Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 02/17/20 11:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

hyperetic--

I believe you (and all of us) have every right to make your own decisions as to what being a sports fan means for you. Yes, you or I or others may not qualify under someone else's standard--sometimes oppressive standard--regarding being a "loyal fan." I wish you well in considering this issue and making whatever choices feel best. Whenever possible, don't let anyone make you feel bad about your right to live your life as you choose.



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readyAIMfire53



Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 7355
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PostPosted: 02/18/20 12:41 am    ::: Re: How Much Loyalty Is Due A Team? Reply Reply with quote

I don't live near a team either. 2 hours from Charlotte, NC and got to a few games so that was my first fave. Then they drafted Kelly Miller at #2, leaving Catch on the table and I called it quits as it was clear they weren't building a winning franchise.

Next closest team geographically was Mystics. Still haven't gotten to a game, but I'm a Duke fan and they got Alana. I was royally pissed at the franchise during the Trudi/Sheila years, and was hanging on by fumes when they finally dumped Trudi and picked up Coach Thibault. Could not see how they could ever the "no superstars" hump when EDD fell in their lap. The 'ship last year was VERY sweet!

My other team I cheer for are the LA Sparks. I'm from LA but never liked Lisa Leslie so it had to wait until she was gone. CP3, Nneka and now former Dukie Chelsea Gray and I'm cheering for my hometown team. It didn't hurt that Alana signed on for a few years...and the Championship over the Lynx was AWESOME.



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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 02/18/20 2:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I was in 2nd grade - and thus can’t even remember - the last time my Seattle Mariners made the playoffs (2001), the longest active playoff drought of any team in the 4 Major American Sports Leagues. Yet since then I’ve kept an eye on them at their worst and cleared my schedule to follow them every night at their “best” (only to see them fall short of playing October ball of course).

Why? My hometown teams are my team - especially when I grew up around them - even when they’re bad, and even when they’re good but problematic at the same time (though admittedly, my teams have managed to stay scandal-free, so it’d be interesting to see what level of scandal could ever change that). I don’t think I’d be a fervent follower of the Storm had they not won it all in ‘04 & I hadn’t been there to witness it. That’s just who I am and how I roll. I haven’t been able to follow the NBA because of it, nor the NHL - though that one at least will be changing very soon. Very Happy


Michelle89



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PostPosted: 02/18/20 3:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I live in another country and only found about watching the W on Live Access in 2010. But i was a big Euroleague fan and ofcourse had my favorite players in LJ, Bird & Taurasi who played at Spartak. So when i finally got LiveAcces i became a big fan of the Storm but at first that was mainly because of LJ and Bird. The addition of Swin, Milly and Svetty made it complete Very Happy

Because of those players i became a big Storm fan. Maybe i was lucky that the Storm drafted Loyd and Stewie soon after because if LJ and Bird both had retired and no Stewie and Loyd i dont know if i would follow the Storm as closely as i do now.
Setting the alarmclock at 03.00 to watch important games and all that Laughing



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Silky Johnson



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PostPosted: 02/18/20 10:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I served in the military for ten years. Before that, I went "out of state" for college and, before that, I was raised by two parents who also served in the military. I moved around so much that I was thirty-five years old before I had ever lived anywhere for at least five years in a row. As a result, I don't have any concept of "roots," so the tribalism aspect of fandom is completely lost on me; the idea of rooting for a sports team because they are the team that is closest geographically to where you live is a concept that I am wholly incapable of relating to.

I said all that to say this, here's where I stand on loyalty to a team: don't give them any. Make them have to re-earn your loyalty every singly game, every single day. Why? Because they don't have any loyalty to you. At a moment's notice, for any reason (or even no reason at all), they will trade or waive players, fire coaches, fire staff members, raise ticket prices, relocate the entire team, or even cease operations, without giving the league time to try and find new ownership (it's been ten-plus years, and it's still "on sight" for the Maloofs, as far as I'm concerned), and your loyalty will not be considered for a second, at any step along the way. You owe them fuck all.

Root for a team, if it pleases you. And, if it stops pleasing you to root for them, stop. Life's too short.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 02/18/20 11:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Silky Johnson wrote:
I said all that to say this, here's where I stand on loyalty to a team: don't give them any. Make them have to re-earn your loyalty every singly game, every single day. Why? Because they don't have any loyalty to you. At a moment's notice, for any reason (or even no reason at all), they will trade or waive players, fire coaches, fire staff members, raise ticket prices, relocate the entire team, or even cease operations, without giving the league time to try and find new ownership (it's been ten-plus years, and it's still "on sight" for the Maloofs, as far as I'm concerned), and your loyalty will not be considered for a second, at any step along the way. You owe them fuck all.

Root for a team, if it pleases you. And, if it stops pleasing you to root for them, stop. Life's too short.


Very well said. I vividly remember, when I was about eight, the day my father came home from work and told me that my beloved Brooklyn Dodgers were moving to Los Angeles. I cried. So I learned the bitter lesson about sports and loyalty at a young age. Totally with Silky Johnson's last three sentences quoted above.



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FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: 02/18/20 11:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't live close enough to a WNBA team to attend any games either. I tend to follow a team because they have players I like and respect. Last year, the Aces built a team with players that I was familiar with from their college years and that I enjoy watching. It seems that they're now re-making their roster and I don't know what the final result will be, but it may well be that they will lose my interest completely. (NYY, of whom I was a rabid fan for decades, has managed to do the same thing.)

The large number of trades that occur in professional sports every year may be good for competition or parity (although I don't think that's necessarily true either) but I don't think it's good for fan loyalty.


Spark4Life



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PostPosted: 02/18/20 12:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I've always felt that you pick a team and you stick with that team. No hopping around or rooting for more than one team. I have been a Sparks fan since day one. I grew up in the LA area rooting for showtime and the Lakers. So when the dub started it was only natural that LA would be my team, especially with the hometown star who would go on to become the GOAT. Been loyal to this team since day 1. Through good and in bad. From the wars with the evil Comets to the rivalry with Loss Lynx, I rooted for LA. I do get annoyed with the people that bandwagon or that arent fans of the team but fans of a player first. There is no greater feeling than when a team you have been loyal to wins a championship. I still get chills thinking about being there in 2001 and 2002. I dont expect every fan to be a loyal fan like me, just as long as we all support the WNBA.


hyperetic



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PostPosted: 02/18/20 3:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Spark4Life wrote:
I've always felt that you pick a team and you stick with that team. No hopping around or rooting for more than one team. I have been a Sparks fan since day one. I grew up in the LA area rooting for showtime and the Lakers. So when the dub started it was only natural that LA would be my team, especially with the hometown star who would go on to become the GOAT. Been loyal to this team since day 1. Through good and in bad. From the wars with the evil Comets to the rivalry with Loss Lynx, I rooted for LA. I do get annoyed with the people that bandwagon or that arent fans of the team but fans of a player first. There is no greater feeling than when a team you have been loyal to wins a championship. I still get chills thinking about being there in 2001 and 2002. I dont expect every fan to be a loyal fan like me, just as long as we all support the WNBA.


I can respect your point of view and your loyalty. Its not for me though. I tried. I honestly did. But at some point it wasn't real to me anymore. You apparently have more patience than I. The one that hurt me the most was the Jerry Krause's breakup of the Bulls following MJ's final retirement. No respect to for all those guys that bled, sweated and cried for them. I was excited for a Pippen led team with whatever new pieces they could pick up. Hell they were been doing great at it for almost of a decade at that point. Surely they could make something happen. What they made happen was too much for me to bear. It sucked. My opinion, everyone has one, but yeah. That was what started me down the player over team fandom road.


Last edited by hyperetic on 02/18/20 3:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
hyperetic



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Location: Fayetteville


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PostPosted: 02/18/20 3:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Silky Johnson wrote:
I served in the military for ten years. Before that, I went "out of state" for college and, before that, I was raised by two parents who also served in the military. I moved around so much that I was thirty-five years old before I had ever lived anywhere for at least five years in a row. As a result, I don't have any concept of "roots," so the tribalism aspect of fandom is completely lost on me; the idea of rooting for a sports team because they are the team that is closest geographically to where you live is a concept that I am wholly incapable of relating to.

I said all that to say this, here's where I stand on loyalty to a team: don't give them any. Make them have to re-earn your loyalty every singly game, every single day. Why? Because they don't have any loyalty to you. At a moment's notice, for any reason (or even no reason at all), they will trade or waive players, fire coaches, fire staff members, raise ticket prices, relocate the entire team, or even cease operations, without giving the league time to try and find new ownership (it's been ten-plus years, and it's still "on sight" for the Maloofs, as far as I'm concerned), and your loyalty will not be considered for a second, at any step along the way. You owe them fuck all.

Root for a team, if it pleases you. And, if it stops pleasing you to root for them, stop. Life's too short.


I hear ya.

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hyperetic



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 5344
Location: Fayetteville


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PostPosted: 02/18/20 3:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
hyperetic--

I believe you (and all of us) have every right to make your own decisions as to what being a sports fan means for you. Yes, you or I or others may not qualify under someone else's standard--sometimes oppressive standard--regarding being a "loyal fan." I wish you well in considering this issue and making whatever choices feel best. Whenever possible, don't let anyone make you feel bad about your right to live your life as you choose.


Sounds good. Thanks.
mayajustwins



Joined: 14 Sep 2019
Posts: 26
Location: Twin Cities


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PostPosted: 02/18/20 3:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I love this topic. I grew up a Twins and Vikings fan because my older family members were fans. We had no hockey rinks in our area, so I gave peripheral attention to the North Stars. I also liked the Cowboys and the Raiders in the 70s. I grew to like the Celtics in the 80s, but that decade was when some of the gloss wore off.

The free agency era started to erode my loyalties because favorite players would go elsewhere for more money than my team could spend. And the players' strikes began. The second NFL strike with the replacement players ruined football for me. The multi-million dollar salaries ruined the NBA and MLB for me.

When I moved back to Minnesota in 2010, I was finally able to see an WNBA game. I had followed the league since the beginning. My first game was the 2nd game of the 2011 Finals. By 2013 I had season tickets and I had brought close to 20 other people to games who had enjoyed them.
I had a great time until 2017, when the Lynx moved to St Paul.

It was closer to my home, but my section of the stands was strewn all over the building. My 4 year relationships with my neighboring fans were over. Then I began a 4 month quest to learn what seats I would have the following season. I continually received provably false information from the sales staff, and they just repeated what they were told and could not seem to investigate the obvious flaw in the logic.

Back in the Target Center for 2018, my seat was substantially worse than before the construction. The team decided not to have the preseason meet and greet with the fans, due to not having time. I was told this after joining a convoy of a thousand or more season ticket holders who had driven 5 hours to Des Moines to support the team in a pre-season game.

Then they tried to change the annual premiere Breast Cancer benefit from a meeting in the Target Center, to a private home in the deep suburbs, before finally cancelling it. I had planned to take my breast cancer survivor foster mother to it. I assume that the team decided to cut expenses due to hosting the All-Star Game, so there were no special half-time shows that year. The worst one was when they had people crack eggs over their heads to see which ones were still raw. For one pair, they were permitted to wear shower caps. The others were not so lucky.

The team has continued to go on the cheap for gametime entertainment. All of last year were stupid games, just not that stupid. They have not had an off-site meet and greet since 2015-or 2016, which used to be staples of the teams engagement. 2019 also did not have a Breast Cancer benefit and they no longer had a live auction for the game used uniforms. The in-game computer auction, which ended with the third quarter, generated barely a third of what the live auction had garnered in 2017.

In 2017, they were celebrated as the model franchise. I think that it went to their head. They claim to still have around 3000 season ticket holders, but I have heard from many online who, like me, have refused to renew after several years. They have to earn me back, and so far they have done nothing this offseason to do so.



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hyperetic



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PostPosted: 02/18/20 4:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mayajustwins wrote:
I love this topic. I grew up a Twins and Vikings fan because my older family members were fans. We had no hockey rinks in our area, so I gave peripheral attention to the North Stars. I also liked the Cowboys and the Raiders in the 70s. I grew to like the Celtics in the 80s, but that decade was when some of the gloss wore off.

The free agency era started to erode my loyalties because favorite players would go elsewhere for more money than my team could spend. And the players' strikes began. The second NFL strike with the replacement players ruined football for me. The multi-million dollar salaries ruined the NBA and MLB for me.

When I moved back to Minnesota in 2010, I was finally able to see an WNBA game. I had followed the league since the beginning. My first game was the 2nd game of the 2011 Finals. By 2013 I had season tickets and I had brought close to 20 other people to games who had enjoyed them.
I had a great time until 2017, when the Lynx moved to St Paul.

It was closer to my home, but my section of the stands was strewn all over the building. My 4 year relationships with my neighboring fans were over. Then I began a 4 month quest to learn what seats I would have the following season. I continually received provably false information from the sales staff, and they just repeated what they were told and could not seem to investigate the obvious flaw in the logic.

Back in the Target Center for 2018, my seat was substantially worse than before the construction. The team decided not to have the preseason meet and greet with the fans, due to not having time. I was told this after joining a convoy of a thousand or more season ticket holders who had driven 5 hours to Des Moines to support the team in a pre-season game.

Then they tried to change the annual premiere Breast Cancer benefit from a meeting in the Target Center, to a private home in the deep suburbs, before finally cancelling it. I had planned to take my breast cancer survivor foster mother to it. I assume that the team decided to cut expenses due to hosting the All-Star Game, so there were no special half-time shows that year. The worst one was when they had people crack eggs over their heads to see which ones were still raw. For one pair, they were permitted to wear shower caps. The others were not so lucky.

The team has continued to go on the cheap for gametime entertainment. All of last year were stupid games, just not that stupid. They have not had an off-site meet and greet since 2015-or 2016, which used to be staples of the teams engagement. 2019 also did not have a Breast Cancer benefit and they no longer had a live auction for the game used uniforms. The in-game computer auction, which ended with the third quarter, generated barely a third of what the live auction had garnered in 2017.

In 2017, they were celebrated as the model franchise. I think that it went to their head. They claim to still have around 3000 season ticket holders, but I have heard from many online who, like me, have refused to renew after several years. They have to earn me back, and so far they have done nothing this offseason to do so.


I am guessing somebody in their office is well aware of your concerns?
Spark4Life



Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: 02/18/20 5:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

hyperetic wrote:
Spark4Life wrote:
I've always felt that you pick a team and you stick with that team. No hopping around or rooting for more than one team. I have been a Sparks fan since day one. I grew up in the LA area rooting for showtime and the Lakers. So when the dub started it was only natural that LA would be my team, especially with the hometown star who would go on to become the GOAT. Been loyal to this team since day 1. Through good and in bad. From the wars with the evil Comets to the rivalry with Loss Lynx, I rooted for LA. I do get annoyed with the people that bandwagon or that arent fans of the team but fans of a player first. There is no greater feeling than when a team you have been loyal to wins a championship. I still get chills thinking about being there in 2001 and 2002. I dont expect every fan to be a loyal fan like me, just as long as we all support the WNBA.


I can respect your point of view and your loyalty. Its not for me though. I tried. I honestly did. But at some point it wasn't real to me anymore. You apparently have more patience than I. The one that hurt me the most was the Jerry Krause's breakup of the Bulls following MJ's final retirement. No respect to for all those guys that bled, sweated and cried for them. I was excited for a Pippen led team with whatever new pieces they could pick up. Hell they were been doing great at it for almost of a decade at that point. Surely they could make something happen. What they made happen was too much for me to bear. It sucked. My opinion, everyone has one, but yeah. That was what started me down the player over team fandom road.


Sometimes the business side of sports can be pretty shitty, I totally agree. I've been bummed by trades and such. When Delisha Milton got traded was a bummer and when Toliver left. And even the dreaded expansion drafts. However, that's just part of it. The players work their butts off and play hard for us fans, I just cant let the business side affect my loyalty to my Sparks players. Every summer I will be there at Staples rooting them on regardless.


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 02/18/20 9:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

In the case of a fan hash tagging that they are a fan of a specific team for life, they have no choice but to root for that team till their last breath, even if they move. #MustObeyYourHashtags


ChiSky54



Joined: 19 Jun 2019
Posts: 667
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PostPosted: 02/18/20 11:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I grew up in Baltimore and became a fan of the Baltimore Colts in the early 1960--the era of Johnny Unitas, Lenny Moore (who was friends with a neighbor down the block, so I saw him outside of games--he always spoke to the kids!) and Gino Marchetti. After my father inherited a season ticket, he also got me one in the cheap seats. If he didn't go I sat in his seat. I would sit there until the bitter end, in the cold, even when there was no chance that Johnny U would be able to pull his famous two-minute drill to have us win.

Even after we moved out of state in late 1972, I kept up with the team but eventually lost interest. But when I learned that the team was stolen out of town overnight in 1983, I was furious! Even though I understand better the reasons, it's more how it was done that really was tacky. So until the Sky came along, I didn't have a home team.

Indianapolis can call themselves the Colts all they want, #notmyteam. The Ravens? They used to be the Cleveland Browns! I've lived in Chicago longer than anywhere, but because of the intense Colts-Bears rivalry, along with the notion that the Bears "played dirty", I can never, even after all these years, ever call them my team.

Since I became a STH in 2013, I have seen the Sky do a lot of boneheaded things. But that's my team, and I don't see that changing!

Great topic!



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 02/19/20 10:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

As a sportswriter, I couldn't really be much of a fan.

As a coach, once I coached at a different school than my first one, it became more about the game and players than about a place or uniform.

I still, however, remain a San Francisco Giants, Golden State Warriors and San Francisco 49er fan, because those teams were imprinted on me when I was young and impressionable. (I was also a Raiders' fan but Al Davis wore that away ...)

I would say, though, that now I'm more a fan of a sport than of a team, and I enjoy watching athletic competitions regardless of rooting interest (spent some time watching the biathlon on the Olympic Channel last night).

It's really an interesting question, I think, as we all approach "fandom" differently.



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Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
Location: New York City


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PostPosted: 02/19/20 10:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
It's really an interesting question, I think, as we all approach "fandom" differently.


And that brings us back to where this thread began: with hyperetic's personal statement. Yes, we all approach "fandom" differently, which seems absolutely fine. But it isn't to certain fans (no one I've seen in this discussion) who insist that others must follow their definition of what constitutes a "loyal fan." And who deride or trash anyone who doesn't.

For me, that is one of the ways that "fandom" can get ugly. I've known people who insist that everyone follow their standard of fandom. As if it came from the Ten Commandments or wherever. I don't want to be around "fans" like that.



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Silky Johnson



Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: 02/19/20 11:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
ClayK wrote:
It's really an interesting question, I think, as we all approach "fandom" differently.


And that brings us back to where this thread began: with hyperetic's personal statement. Yes, we all approach "fandom" differently, which seems absolutely fine. But it isn't to certain fans (no one I've seen in this discussion) who insist that others must follow their definition of what constitutes a "loyal fan." And who deride or trash anyone who doesn't.


Perhaps not, and your mileage may vary, but I personally feel like @Spark4Life is, at least, toeing that line. Their use of verbiage like, "hopping around" and "bandwagon" is telling, to me. They might not "insist" that others subscribe to their notion of fandom but, from my point of view, it certainly seems like they look down on those who do not, even if they don't verbally "trash" such fans, to their "face."



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My team no longer exists, so I'll have to settle for hating yours.
FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 02/19/20 11:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Is it "wrong" to want to follow and cheer for certain player(s) rather than a specific team? Either way, it put fans in seats or on the television watching games.


Silky Johnson



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PostPosted: 02/19/20 12:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
Is it "wrong" to want to follow and cheer for certain player(s) rather than a specific team?

If rooting for players over teams is wrong, I don't wanna be right!



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My team no longer exists, so I'll have to settle for hating yours.
Spark4Life



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PostPosted: 02/19/20 1:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
Is it "wrong" to want to follow and cheer for certain player(s) rather than a specific team? Either way, it put fans in seats or on the television watching games.


It can be. Like the Parker fans that refuse to see any wrong in her laziness and want to blame everyone and their mamas for her half-assness including bad mouthing every coach and the entire front office.




Last edited by Spark4Life on 02/19/20 1:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
mayajustwins



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PostPosted: 02/19/20 1:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Well, I had had a lot of contact with Carley Knox, the VP of business affairs, so I detailed all of this in an email to her. Never heard back. I talked to her in person at 2019 preseason meet and greet. She pooh-poohed all of my concerns. That was also when she mentioned the 3000 STHs.

Oh, and my rep got promoted.



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Spark4Life



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PostPosted: 02/19/20 1:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Silky Johnson wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
ClayK wrote:
It's really an interesting question, I think, as we all approach "fandom" differently.


And that brings us back to where this thread began: with hyperetic's personal statement. Yes, we all approach "fandom" differently, which seems absolutely fine. But it isn't to certain fans (no one I've seen in this discussion) who insist that others must follow their definition of what constitutes a "loyal fan." And who deride or trash anyone who doesn't.


Perhaps not, and your mileage may vary, but I personally feel like @Spark4Life is, at least, toeing that line. Their use of verbiage like, "hopping around" and "bandwagon" is telling, to me. They might not "insist" that others subscribe to their notion of fandom but, from my point of view, it certainly seems like they look down on those who do not, even if they don't verbally "trash" such fans, to their "face."


As I said in my statement, I could care less if people show their fandom in their own way. I dont lose sleep over it. It's not that serious lol. You wanna hop around, go for it. More power to you. Just happy everyone supports the league, and I show them the same respect I show everyone else.


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