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Aces @ Mystics - 9/17/19
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Who will win this game?
Aces
27%
 27%  [ 11 ]
Mystics
72%
 72%  [ 29 ]
Total Votes : 40

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scrappy



Joined: 18 May 2006
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PostPosted: 09/17/19 10:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PickledGinger wrote:
I think it should have been a foul. Plum definitely jumped into Elena’s natural trajectory, but the right hip contact was definitely intentional and probably threw off Plum’s shot.


what?! you rear end someone, that's your fault. especially when both are going forward.

but you know what? i think you qualify to be a wnba official.



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She's blonde, she can block. She is 6 foot five, she can deny. Though she is tall, she definitely can score. ya'al think she is quite nice, but on the court she can put up a fight.
myrtle



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PostPosted: 09/17/19 10:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

my coach always said that if it comes down to a bad call at the end of the game, it's your own fault because you should have played better earlier on... It's a tough one to take, but there is truth. There were a lot of times Washington could have/should have put the game away earlier. And there were certainly times where the Aces lost their focus. They didn't take advantage of Cambage's size advantage enough, and as pointed out already, she really did play soft. I thought when they needed more points, putting Sugar in for a few plays would have been smarter. Neither Young was doing much other than taking up space and they dug themselves a hole right from the start. T. Young especially looked terrible, not even effectively guarding her player. With nobody able to shoot a three other than McBride on the floor, Washington could totally collapse inside...and they did. On the other side: Early in the game when Toliver was 'off' I thought introducing her in a playoff game would just throw off the chemistry, but they survived and she started looking a bit more like her old self. The Mystics were pretty lucky with Meesseman having a career game. They needed every bit of that. I think Vegas was unable to guard her, especially when the Mystics were in their three big lineup, so they need to come up with a plan for that. Maybe start Hamby at the three if Washington starts Meesseman.

Looking forward to seeing what adjustments are made both ways.



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if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
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Last edited by myrtle on 09/17/19 10:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
WfanFrJmp



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PostPosted: 09/17/19 10:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Seems like EDD tried to avoid the contact but it was definitely a foul. If the roles were reversed, they would've called it. Whelp, both homes teams did what they were supposed to do tonight. Thursday will be exciting!


NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 09/17/19 10:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Plum IMO clearly jumped into EDD's path to initiate the contact. I remember the gist of what the rule book says about legal guarding position but does anyone know the specifics of a situation such as this? Meaning where a defensive player is running down the floor but an offensive player jumps into her natural path of running? I'm just curious if by the letter of the rules this should have been called a foul or not. I'm of the opinion that it was a good no-call. But I am saying that not knowing the specifics of when a foul should be called in this situation.



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scrappy



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PostPosted: 09/17/19 10:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Plum IMO clearly jumped into EDD's path to initiate the contact. I remember the gist of what the rule book says about legal guarding position but does anyone know the specifics of a situation such as this? Meaning where a defensive player is running down the floor but an offensive player jumps into her natural path of running? I'm just curious if by the letter of the rules this should have been called a foul or not. I'm of the opinion that it was a good no-call. But I am saying that not knowing the specifics of when a foul should be called in this situation.


establishing legal guarding position: both feel on court, torso squares up facing offensive player.

it's ridicules to say plum jumps into delle donne's path. what about about delle donne jumping into plum's path?



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She's blonde, she can block. She is 6 foot five, she can deny. Though she is tall, she definitely can score. ya'al think she is quite nice, but on the court she can put up a fight.
WfanFrJmp



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PostPosted: 09/17/19 10:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Are the lip readers correct? Laughing

https://twitter.com/ariivory/status/1174148681743966214


myrtle



Joined: 02 May 2008
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PostPosted: 09/17/19 10:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Plum was in front of EDD and looking at the basket. If someone runs into you from behind, it's a foul. period.



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if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
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Aladyyn



Joined: 23 Jul 2017
Posts: 1560
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PostPosted: 09/17/19 11:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Last possession in a playoff game? Good luck getting that call in any league in the world.


PickledGinger



Joined: 04 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: 09/17/19 11:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

scrappy wrote:
PickledGinger wrote:
I think it should have been a foul. Plum definitely jumped into Elena’s natural trajectory, but the right hip contact was definitely intentional and probably threw off Plum’s shot.


what?! you rear end someone, that's your fault. especially when both are going forward.

but you know what? i think you qualify to be a wnba official.


Is this the twilight zone? I literally just said it was a foul. I’m so confused. It was a great offensive show of spacial awareness by Plum that wasn’t rewarded by the refs.


scrappy



Joined: 18 May 2006
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PostPosted: 09/17/19 11:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Aladyyn wrote:
Last possession in a playoff game? Good luck getting that call in any league in the world.


if the game was tied, then a marginal contact might not warrant a call to have the referees decide the game by a pair of free throws.



_________________
She's blonde, she can block. She is 6 foot five, she can deny. Though she is tall, she definitely can score. ya'al think she is quite nice, but on the court she can put up a fight.


Last edited by scrappy on 09/17/19 11:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
scrappy



Joined: 18 May 2006
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PostPosted: 09/17/19 11:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PickledGinger wrote:
scrappy wrote:
PickledGinger wrote:
I think it should have been a foul. Plum definitely jumped into Elena’s natural trajectory, but the right hip contact was definitely intentional and probably threw off Plum’s shot.


what?! you rear end someone, that's your fault. especially when both are going forward.

but you know what? i think you qualify to be a wnba official.


Is this the twilight zone? I literally just said it was a foul. I’m so confused. It was a great offensive show of spacial awareness by Plum that wasn’t rewarded by the refs.


i am just using you mock the wnba offcials. don't take it personally. fans can be naive about officiating. but these guys are being paid as high level officials.



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She's blonde, she can block. She is 6 foot five, she can deny. Though she is tall, she definitely can score. ya'al think she is quite nice, but on the court she can put up a fight.
SpaceJunkie



Joined: 10 Sep 2012
Posts: 4241
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PostPosted: 09/18/19 12:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Aladyyn wrote:
Last possession in a playoff game? Good luck getting that call in any league in the world.


Only the Lynx ever get calls at the end of a playoff game. Smile

https://www.wnba.com/video/final-seconds-of-game-2-of-the-western-conference-finals/


TotalCardinalMove



Joined: 13 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: 09/18/19 7:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Kelsey Plum will never get a foul called on EDD in a moment like that. It’s also extremely rare for refs to make calls that late in a back and forth game in general.


Ex-Ref



Joined: 04 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: 09/18/19 8:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This shit about refs not deciding the outcome in the last few seconds of the game by making a call IS the refs deciding the game. Last night, Roy was so busy signalling that a pull up at the top of the key was a two point shot, it was like he was using that as an excuse to 'miss' the call. Like he was too busy doing something else to see and make that call. When have you ever seen a ref signal that it was a two point shot that far inside the three point line?

I have no idea if it was a coach, player, fan, beat writer or someone else that first put forth the idea that a ref making a call in the last two minutes of a game was was some how deciding the game, but it makes me crazy.

As long as it is the correct call, it needs to be made regardless of when it occurs. Blatant failure to do so should exclude that official from doing any more games until being properly retrained.

Officials should work the game with no idea how much time is on the clock. Makes me crazy when I see them hold up a finger or point at the clock with one minute left. It is like a signal that now we're gonna do things differently.



_________________
"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw

“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
pilight



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PostPosted: 09/18/19 9:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
Officials should work the game with no idea how much time is on the clock. Makes me crazy when I see them hold up a finger or point at the clock with one minute left. It is like a signal that now we're gonna do things differently.


The rules actually change in the last two minutes. The refs need to be aware of the rules.

Players play differently in the final minutes. Coaches coach differently in the final minutes. It makes sense that the refs would call the game differently in the final minutes.



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herna220



Joined: 26 Sep 2016
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PostPosted: 09/18/19 9:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Laimbeer was more upset a time out was not called. ESPN had the coaches mic'd up so probably easy enough to prove or disprove his claim here:

https://www.instagram.com/p/B2iYgyIHWwi/


ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: 09/18/19 9:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

What a great game ...

No question that's foul on the last play, but as Aladyyn pointed out, that's not a whistle that usually blows in that situation. And still, Plum has to make both, and then it's OT, so it's not like a sure win was taken away.

One question, though: With every other coach in the semis playing eight, Laimbeer plays the entire bench -- and I think it really cost him. Ji-Su Park and Carolyn Swords played 7:51, went 1-4 from the field and got one rebound, to pick one example.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 09/18/19 9:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Plum got hit harder than that earlier in the 4th quarter and there was no foul call...Why should the refs call a foul just because it was the final play of the game?....I find it funny how some posters who were defending the refs at the end of the Sky/Aces game for swallowing their whistle are now bashing the refs for doing the same at the end of this game.

"But. bu but...If the Refs made every call the game would go longer longer than 2 hours.".... well. maybe the referees didn't call the foul on EDD because they knew the game would go into overtime and exceed 2 hours Razz


Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 09/18/19 9:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
Plum got hit harder than that earlier in the 4th quarter and there was no foul call...Why should the refs call a foul just because it was the final play of the game?....I find it funny how some posters who were defending the refs at the end of the Sky/Aces game for swallowing their whistle are now bashing the refs for doing the same at the end of this game.

"But. bu but...If the Refs made every call the game would go longer longer than 2 hours.".... well. maybe the referees didn't call the foul on EDD because they knew the game would go into overtime and exceed 2 hours Razz


I know that this was directed to me, so I'll ask you to show me where I ever said that the refs needed to swallow their whistle at the end of the Aces/Sky game.



_________________
"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw

“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
bryan_february_



Joined: 28 Aug 2015
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PostPosted: 09/18/19 9:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

herna220 wrote:
Laimbeer was more upset a time out was not called. ESPN had the coaches mic'd up so probably easy enough to prove or disprove his claim here:

https://www.instagram.com/p/B2iYgyIHWwi/

I think he's telling the truth, as was Wade about Hamby stepping out of bounds.

I really hope the officiating is addressed this off-season because this season has been horrible. Too much physicality is being allowed - it's like a free-for-all out there, I'm surprised more fights haven't broke out. And in general the refs have consistently shown they don't know what the hell they're doing.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 09/18/19 9:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Plum got hit harder than that earlier in the 4th quarter and there was no foul call...Why should the refs call a foul just because it was the final play of the game?....I find it funny how some posters who were defending the refs at the end of the Sky/Aces game for swallowing their whistle are now bashing the refs for doing the same at the end of this game.

"But. bu but...If the Refs made every call the game would go longer longer than 2 hours.".... well. maybe the referees didn't call the foul on EDD because they knew the game would go into overtime and exceed 2 hours Razz


I know that this was directed to me, so I'll ask you to show me where I ever said that the refs needed to swallow their whistle at the end of the Aces/Sky game.


Those weren't you exact words but you did say this...

Ex-Ref wrote:


But let's say that the league gives you what you want. Why stop at line reviews? Why not review a possible travel (Dolson, I'm looking at you)? Possible three seconds? Possible 8 seconds? Possible foul? Possible double-dribble?

A game would no longer be ~2 hours. Better plan on 2 days.




Last edited by zune69 on 09/18/19 10:04 am; edited 2 times in total
Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 09/18/19 9:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
Officials should work the game with no idea how much time is on the clock. Makes me crazy when I see them hold up a finger or point at the clock with one minute left. It is like a signal that now we're gonna do things differently.


The rules actually change in the last two minutes. The refs need to be aware of the rules.

Players play differently in the final minutes. Coaches coach differently in the final minutes. It makes sense that the refs would call the game differently in the final minutes.


Ok, that wasn't well stated. I guess I thought that since the conversation was about calling fouls that it was kind of an understood thing that was what I was referring to. My mistake.


Better?

Officials should work the game IN REGARDS TO CALLING FOULS with no idea how much time is on the clock. Makes me crazy when I see them hold up a finger or point at the clock with one minute left. It is like a signal that now we're gonna CALL FOULS differently.



_________________
"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw

“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
Ex-Ref



Joined: 04 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: 09/18/19 10:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Plum got hit harder than that earlier in the 4th quarter and there was no foul call...Why should the refs call a foul just because it was the final play of the game?....I find it funny how some posters who were defending the refs at the end of the Sky/Aces game for swallowing their whistle are now bashing the refs for doing the same at the end of this game.

"But. bu but...If the Refs made every call the game would go longer longer than 2 hours.".... well. maybe the referees didn't call the foul on EDD because they knew the game would go into overtime and exceed 2 hours Razz


I know that this was directed to me, so I'll ask you to show me where I ever said that the refs needed to swallow their whistle at the end of the Aces/Sky game.


Those weren't you exact words but you did say this...

Ex-Ref wrote:


But let's say that the league gives you what you want. Why stop at line reviews? Why not review a possible travel (Dolson, I'm looking at you)? Possible three seconds? Possible 8 seconds? Possible foul? Possible double-dribble?

A game would no longer be ~2 hours. Better plan on 2 days.


That comment was in regards to you seeming to want a review on every potential violation that might occur. Not on things that are ACTUALLY violations that happened being called. Like a foul at the end of the game.

We'll call a lane violation and let you try again.



_________________
"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw

“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
Shades



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PostPosted: 09/18/19 10:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:

One question, though: With every other coach in the semis playing eight, Laimbeer plays the entire bench -- and I think it really cost him. Ji-Su Park and Carolyn Swords played 7:51, went 1-4 from the field and got one rebound, to pick one example.


Cambage needs rest in an up and down game like that. I believe Swords was actually decent against Chicago.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 09/18/19 10:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:


That comment was in regards to you seeming to want a review on every potential violation that might occur. Not on things that are ACTUALLY violations that happened being called. Like a foul at the end of the game.

We'll call a lane violation and let you try again.



But we could come to the same conclusion in regard to not calling all contact a foul because the game would exceed 2 hours. Why call a foul on EDD on the last possession when the same amount of contact was not being called a foul up to that point?


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