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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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 Posted: 02/24/20 1:54 pm ::: |
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| Stormeo wrote: |
Good question! It'd be quite unpopular here of course, but the front office should just float out Durr's name and see what the response would be from teams that have such a SF. I'm not saying they need to get rid of her of course, but really Durr is largely limited to playing SG in this league. She's not just any 5'10 guard, but 5'10 guards out of any profile do grow on trees. It would be a trade where, in order to get some, ya have to give some.
The only player I think I would realistically consider trading Durr straight-up for would be soon-to-be-rookie Kaila Charles (stats here). I find her to be this draft's defensive SF-type, though she's also shown an ability to take over a game if need be. That type of move would allow Nurse to immediately slide back to her own natural SG position, as I'd imagine they'd try starting K. Charles from the get-go. She doesn't really have a three-point shot (yet), but plenty others on this team do. She's also not a great passer, but that's what bringing in Ionescu is for amongst other things 
In terms of those already in the league... well, it's too bad Tamera Young weren't several years younger.  Bringing Kahleah Copper "home" could've been great, too. A 2 for 1 trade in which the "1" is Durr is really tricky, since she plays the most common position and had her injury last year. Gabby Williams + something could work. Not much else. Trading her for age-equivalent pieces too is tricky. If Dallas wanted to offer a first-round pick (not #9) plus either Allisha Gray or Kayla Thornton, I'd do it. Brian Agler has always liked guards who can score, so maybe!
Trading Boyd of course unlocks more possibilities. I still think she has value as a back-up PG, so maybe others around the league do, too. Boyd + something for G. Williams, A. Gray, Thornton - heck, Boyd for Karima Christmas-Kelly straight-up? At least if she were still injured, it would open up more minutes for everyone else. Find a way to snatch Kennedy Burke from Indiana from their own coaching change. And if ya really want to give Boyd away, trade her for Kaela Davis. I know I said Davis will only succeed on a contending team, but she could be a fit!
Ok clearly I'm on one of my tangents again. Anyways, those are just my ideas - hopefully you don't find too many of them laughable. |
I don't find ANY of your ideas laughable! I remain skeptical that the Liberty could get much for Brittany Boyd. It's not that I think she's a terrible player. She's occasionally terrific. But she hasn't even proven that she'd be a consistent backup point guard.
I suspect that Kolb and Hopkins have indeed floated the name of Asia Durr in possible trades. I wouldn't trade her now because, even with her ups and downs in 2019, I believe it's possible she can become a star. Moreover, what if she has a better 2020, not stardom but good scoring and consistency? Then her trade value will be much higher than it is today.
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Stormeo
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bluedevilaztecfan5
Joined: 16 Mar 2010
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| Posted: 02/24/20 1:59 pm ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
Not saying Marine can't be good, but offensive flair is not the same as consistency or quality play on both ends of the court. Johannes still has a lot of work to do.
So, between Nurse, Ionescu, Durr, Clarendon, Johannes, and Allen, you're splitting 120 minutes between 6 players. Not everyone is going to see a lot of minutes. |
Right, I want to say Marine had a couple of 0-5/6 games last season. That work on her consistency will be important. But this is another reason I think she can be a great spark off the bench, the offensive flair and scoring/play making ability.
It will be interesting how Walt will divy up the minutes between those 6.
| Bob Lamm wrote: |
This information about Johannes is valuable and sobering. I just checked and saw that Johannes is 25 years old. That's not the same as being 21 or 22 and starting out in professional basketball. At her best, she's a joy to watch on the offensive end. But your caution makes total sense.
The quote from Kolb about Allen is lovely, but count me skeptical. Allen definitely took a step forward for the Liberty last season. But I don't think many professional athletes in any sport have a "breakout year" at age 27.
I hope I'm wrong, but I'll be surprised if Allen in 2020 is much different than Allen in 2019. Some great performances but inconsistent. |
Allen is so streaky, I agree with the skepticism. She takes some difficult looking shots and sometimes they go in sometimes they don’t. Perhaps with Ionescu making plays she can be more consistent.
But I’ve been waiting years for her, Boyd, and Stokes. At this point it feels and seems like they are what they are.
Allen- long defender, but not great defense. 3pt bomber but inconsistent. Able to post up and shoot over shorter wings.
Boyd- speedy push the pace point, missed layups and free throws often, pesky defense and plays passing lanes well, sometimes beautiful passes sometimes super unforced error passes. Spark off the bench but again, inconsistent. Also I see a lot of pouting and negative faces.
Stokes- solid defender and shot blocker, but short for a center. Not much offense provided, good rebounder. Latest seasons an inconsistent rebounder and shotblocker.
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Stormeo
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| Posted: 02/24/20 2:26 pm ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| Stormeo wrote: |
Good question! It'd be quite unpopular here of course, but the front office should just float out Durr's name and see what the response would be from teams that have such a SF. I'm not saying they need to get rid of her of course, but really Durr is largely limited to playing SG in this league. She's not just any 5'10 guard, but 5'10 guards out of any profile do grow on trees. It would be a trade where, in order to get some, ya have to give some.
The only player I think I would realistically consider trading Durr straight-up for would be soon-to-be-rookie Kaila Charles (stats here). I find her to be this draft's defensive SF-type, though she's also shown an ability to take over a game if need be. That type of move would allow Nurse to immediately slide back to her own natural SG position, as I'd imagine they'd try starting K. Charles from the get-go. She doesn't really have a three-point shot (yet), but plenty others on this team do. She's also not a great passer, but that's what bringing in Ionescu is for amongst other things
In terms of those already in the league... well, it's too bad Tamera Young weren't several years younger. Bringing Kahleah Copper "home" could've been great, too. A 2 for 1 trade in which the "1" is Durr is really tricky, since she plays the most common position and had her injury last year. Gabby Williams + something could work. Not much else. Trading her for age-equivalent pieces too is tricky. If Dallas wanted to offer a first-round pick (not #9) plus either Allisha Gray or Kayla Thornton, I'd do it. Brian Agler has always liked guards who can score, so maybe!
Trading Boyd of course unlocks more possibilities. I still think she has value as a back-up PG, so maybe others around the league do, too. Boyd + something for G. Williams, A. Gray, Thornton - heck, Boyd for Karima Christmas-Kelly straight-up? At least if she were still injured, it would open up more minutes for everyone else. Find a way to snatch Kennedy Burke from Indiana from their own coaching change. And if ya really want to give Boyd away, trade her for Kaela Davis. I know I said Davis will only succeed on a contending team, but she could be a fit!
Ok clearly I'm on one of my tangents again. Anyways, those are just my ideas - hopefully you don't find too many of them laughable. |
I don't find ANY of your ideas laughable! I remain skeptical that the Liberty could get much for Brittany Boyd. It's not that I think she's a terrible player. She's occasionally terrific. But she hasn't even proven that she'd be a consistent backup point guard.
I suspect that Kolb and Hopkins have indeed floated the name of Asia Durr in possible trades. I wouldn't trade her now because, even with her ups and downs in 2019, I believe it's possible she can become a star. Moreover, what if she has a better 2020, not stardom but good scoring and consistency? Then her trade value will be much higher than it is today. |
 Thanks for that. Fair thought on Boyd. She would look much better if she could just make the kinds of shots she takes. At the end of the day, she's a defense-oriented "energy" player that really should only come off the bench - one that a coach either should pull when she makes a mistake she shouldn't, or can leave out there and keep a high pace on a good day. If nothing else, she has a great assists-per-40 average. Imo both parties here need a fresh start when it comes to her. Being under an experienced coach at this point is probably what's best for her - still, the Wings, Mystics, Dream, Fever, and Mercury all could use experienced back-up PG help. Four of those teams have starting PGs that are more offense-oriented (I call Natasha Cloud more defense-oriented, but playing under Thibault imo would still be a good fit anyway), so Boyd herself could be a good complement.
In terms of Durr, she could be something of a generational player - at least as far as SGs go. But it seems that it's rarer to see great SGs these days, and that a player is more likely to succeed as a frontcourt player than a backcourt one. I also think Kaila Charles, in the right situation, could be a star herself. Myself, if I had to pick between Durr's potential vs. K. Charles' potential, I'd pick K. Charles. Anyways, those are my two-cents on it all. So much to talk about, even outside of whatever's going on in the Tina Charles situation. 
Last edited by Stormeo on 02/24/20 2:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 02/24/20 2:28 pm ::: |
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| bluedevilaztecfan5 wrote: |
Allen is so streaky, I agree with the skepticism. She takes some difficult looking shots and sometimes they go in sometimes they don’t. Perhaps with Ionescu making plays she can be more consistent.
But I’ve been waiting years for her, Boyd, and Stokes. At this point it feels and seems like they are what they are. |
Totally with you on Allen, Boyd, and Stokes. I don't think it's said enough: the Liberty saw great potential in these three players and has stuck with them for years. They all have some value, but not one of them has become the player that the front office and the fans hoped for. It has hurt.
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 02/24/20 2:36 pm ::: |
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| Stormeo wrote: |
Good question! It'd be quite unpopular here of course, but the front office should just float out Durr's name and see what the response would be from teams that have such a SF. I'm not saying they need to get rid of her of course, but really Durr is largely limited to playing SG in this league. She's not just any 5'10 guard, but 5'10 guards out of any profile do grow on trees. It would be a trade where, in order to get some, ya have to give some.
The only player I think I would realistically consider trading Durr straight-up for would be soon-to-be-rookie Kaila Charles (stats here). I find her to be this draft's defensive SF-type, though she's also shown an ability to take over a game if need be. That type of move would allow Nurse to immediately slide back to her own natural SG position, as I'd imagine they'd try starting K. Charles from the get-go. She doesn't really have a three-point shot (yet), but plenty others on this team do. She's also not a great passer, but that's what bringing in Ionescu is for amongst other things
In terms of those already in the league... well, it's too bad Tamera Young weren't several years younger. Bringing Kahleah Copper "home" could've been great, too. A 2 for 1 trade in which the "1" is Durr is really tricky, since she plays the most common position and had her injury last year. Gabby Williams + something could work. Not much else. Trading her for age-equivalent pieces too is tricky. If Dallas wanted to offer a first-round pick (not #9) plus either Allisha Gray or Kayla Thornton, I'd do it. Brian Agler has always liked guards who can score, so maybe!
Trading Boyd of course unlocks more possibilities. I still think she has value as a back-up PG, so maybe others around the league do, too. Boyd + something for G. Williams, A. Gray, Thornton - heck, Boyd for Karima Christmas-Kelly straight-up? At least if she were still injured, it would open up more minutes for everyone else. Find a way to snatch Kennedy Burke from Indiana from their own coaching change. And if ya really want to give Boyd away, trade her for Kaela Davis. I know I said Davis will only succeed on a contending team, but she could be a fit!
Ok clearly I'm on one of my tangents again. Anyways, those are just my ideas - hopefully you don't find too many of them laughable. |
Right now, I think Kaila Charles will be available at #13. No need to trade for her. Personally, I like Jocelyn Willoughby better. She's strong, she can shoot, and she plays aggressively on both ends of the court without fouling -- just 2.67 fouls while playing 36 mpg and no DQ's yet this season. I also like Herbert-Harrigan, who gives you some rim protection. However, we get that now from Allen and Kiki may be even skinnier.
Hopkins coached Gabby Williams in high school, and he's known her since she was a little girl. He speaks glowingly about her, so it would not surprise me if Walt tries to get Gabby at some point. Not necessarily this year, but somewhere down the road.
As far as Boyd goes, the numbers are kinder to her than fans would like to believe. Boyd was second in the WNBA in assist percentage behind only Vandersloot. Among guards, she was second in rebounding percentage behind only Courtney Williams. Brittany was 7th in the league in steal percentage. Among Liberty players, terrible-shooter Boyd had a better field goal percentage than Nurse, Charles, and that max salary player Bria Hartley. In terms of career PER, she beats Clarendon by a significant margin (14.3 vs 11.2). It's definitely a beauty is in the eye of the beholder kind of thing.
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mavcarter
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| Posted: 02/24/20 2:45 pm ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
| As far as Boyd goes, the numbers are kinder to her than fans would like to believe. Boyd was second in the WNBA in assist percentage behind only Vandersloot. Among guards, she was second in rebounding percentage behind only Courtney Williams. Brittany was 7th in the league in steal percentage. Among Liberty players, terrible-shooter Boyd had a better field goal percentage than Nurse, Charles, and that max salary player Bria Hartley. In terms of career PER, she beats Clarendon by a significant margin (14.3 vs 11.2). It's definitely a beauty is in the eye of the beholder kind of thing. |
This is why I was on a record stating I’d take Boyd in a Sky uniform. She’s really not that bad of a player, IMO._________________
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| Or maybe said poster should quit being a nuisance when people don’t agree? |
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Randy
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Shades
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| Posted: 02/24/20 2:51 pm ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
| It will be interesting to see the minutes allocated to her this season. She should be a 25-30 minute player off the bench. |
If she’s averaging 30 mpg, it probably won’t be off the bench.
| toad455 wrote: |
| Maybe we see some three guard line-ups this season with Clarendon-Ionescu-Johannes? |
Are you trading Nurse? I think Reeve might be interested. They’d use her as a proper SG.
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J-Spoon
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| Posted: 02/24/20 2:56 pm ::: |
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Ok then
How about Boyd and 13 for Gabby?
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Richyyy
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| Posted: 02/24/20 3:02 pm ::: |
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| Chicago already signed Colson for nothing. Don't see why they'd be giving stuff up for Boyd, who's paid more. |
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mavcarter
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bluedevilaztecfan5
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| Posted: 02/24/20 3:24 pm ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
Right now, I think Kaila Charles will be available at #13. No need to trade for her. Personally, I like Jocelyn Willoughby better. She's strong, she can shoot, and she plays aggressively on both ends of the court without fouling -- just 2.67 fouls while playing 36 mpg and no DQ's yet this season. I also like Herbert-Harrigan, who gives you some rim protection. However, we get that now from Allen and Kiki may be even skinnier.
Hopkins coached Gabby Williams in high school, and he's known her since she was a little girl. He speaks glowingly about her, so it would not surprise me if Walt tries to get Gabby at some point. Not necessarily this year, but somewhere down the road.
As far as Boyd goes, the numbers are kinder to her than fans would like to believe. Boyd was second in the WNBA in assist percentage behind only Vandersloot. Among guards, she was second in rebounding percentage behind only Courtney Williams. Brittany was 7th in the league in steal percentage. Among Liberty players, terrible-shooter Boyd had a better field goal percentage than Nurse, Charles, and that max salary player Bria Hartley. In terms of career PER, she beats Clarendon by a significant margin (14.3 vs 11.2). It's definitely a beauty is in the eye of the beholder kind of thing. |
I also think Kailah could fall from the 1st round. So no need to trade Durr for her, I’m not opposed to trading Asia but I would like to see a healthy season of her first and hopefully more confidence on the court.
I like Gabby and would love to sign or trade for her at some point.
With Boyd....I agree she is a perfectly capable passer, rebounder, defender/stealer, and indeed had higher FG% than Tina and Nurse and Hartley. Tina and Kia makes some sense, Tina has faced many doubles and triples and developed those fadeaways that were not working last season. Kia was transitioning into a go to player for the first time in her sophomore year playing heavy minutes to start the season, and somewhat inconsistent minutes to end the year (not an excuse I love).
But Boyd also was 10th in the league in turnovers per game (while only playing 19.7mpg), second on our team behind Tina.
Per 40 she was 5th in the league in turnovers per game.
And as I said sometimes these are completely unforced.
I have been a Brittany Boyd fan since she came to the league, and am happy to have her as 5th guard. I love fast players.
But I don’t mind trading or cutting her, at this point.
Can she be a spark who rebounds, steals, assists? Yes!
Can she also turn the tide of the game for the worse, with those turnovers and emotional (argumentative, face making, seemingly pouting) play? Yes.
She’s more dynamic than Layshia, but Layshia is more steady and that ‘Coach’ on the floor type.
Really I hope Ionescu gets a big majority of minutes, and who wins the rest can be whoever earns it in any given game.
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Shades
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Shades
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toad455
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| Posted: 02/24/20 4:06 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| toad455 wrote: |
| It will be interesting to see the minutes allocated to her this season. She should be a 25-30 minute player off the bench. |
If she’s averaging 30 mpg, it probably won’t be off the bench.
| toad455 wrote: |
| Maybe we see some three guard line-ups this season with Clarendon-Ionescu-Johannes? |
Are you trading Nurse? I think Reeve might be interested. They’d use her as a proper SG. |
I never mentioned dumping Nurse. She still starts at SF, just we have an option to go with a three guard line-up with Johannes at the 3 for certain stretches.
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Randy
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| Posted: 02/24/20 4:09 pm ::: |
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shades wrote:
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What’s your offer Cazorla? That’s a brilliant idea!
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Do I get a booyah for that then, or do I have to wait until the trade is made?
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toad455
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Richyyy
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| Posted: 02/24/20 4:24 pm ::: |
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| Assuming that piece is accurate, I'm a little surprised they got her so cheap. Obviously as a reserved player you're not in a great negotiating position because you either play with that team or don't play at all, but I thought they might have to go higher to get her to show up. |
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bluedevilaztecfan5
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| Posted: 02/24/20 4:25 pm ::: |
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| Quote: |
| High Post Hoops can report that the French native has signed a two-year deal, earning 68K in 2020 and $70,040 in 2021. The deal leaves New York with $361,800 left before hitting the league’s new $1.3 million salary cap. |
Seems like an awesome deal to me. Couple years to earn a higher contract.
We’ve got a lot of cap space!
I wonder if we try to throw some money at N Ogwunike A Thomas or N Howard next offseason, as a young/prime replacement for Tina.
Sorry for the intrusive 2021 thought lol.....I wonder why we haven’t heard anything for R Gray yet, seemed like a good fit with prior connection to Walt. They had nice words for her, I believe.
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Stormeo
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| Posted: 02/24/20 4:58 pm ::: |
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Surprised it took me this long to get the quote-analysis treatment. Warranted after enough lil jabs I've fit in over time.
| Shades wrote: |
| They’d start a lower first round rookie over 25-yr old Johannes? That takes quite an imagination. |
Not if you consider Nurse a SG like I do. It's not a stretch for Johannès, who if you recall has only barely played half a season in the W, to continue to come off the bench - especially if the only thing she'll be able to do in this league is shoot 3's. What else in particular did she do last year?
| Shades wrote: |
| She’s more of a very selective three point shooter, sorta like Jackie Young. Especially this year since she plays mostly at the 4, not her normal position. |
Which helps my point that Charles would be worth developing. Still, she's 3 for 10 from three on the whole year, which is... more than very selective, imo. Jackie Young took 31 3's in her final year at Notre Dame, fwiw.
| Shades wrote: |
| That was a long walk to get to the punchline. |
It was, like, barely two sentences, but *insert Waka Flocka meme here*
| Shades wrote: |
| I doubt Philadelphia and New York are on that friendly of terms to consider themselves the same place. |
Hence me saying "home" like that, and "(well, closer to it, anyway)". New York's closer to Philly than Chicago is, last I checked.
| Shades wrote: |
| I don’t think this is an even trade talent-wise for Minnesota, but it would give Minnesota the opportunity to unload Christmas’s contract with two years guaranteed left on it in exchange for Boyd’s cheaper one year non-guaranteed contract. |
Yep, if I'm Reeve, I take that deal. We've covered that Lynx are the most loaded at SF and have a need for a PG. And really, who else would find KCK useful enough to trade for? The only thing is, getting Boyd would still mean Reeve would need to find a starting PG. I doubt even she would use Boyd as the starter... though hopefully for your sake, a certain assistant coach doesn't try to talk her into it.
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toad455
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| Posted: 02/24/20 8:07 pm ::: |
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Johannes will be missing some games due to her national team commitment and the Olympics this season. Maybe that's what drew her salary on the low end. But keeping her on the low end does open up cap space in 2021 to sign a big name. But as for now, we have the huge question mark of if Charles will be in a Liberty uniform this season. Gray & Raincock-Ekunwe are still under the reserve status. Regardless, I think our #13 pick might beat of both for that 12th spot. I also see less of a need for Boyd with Johannes now. We basically have our third PG with Marine now and an even lesser need for Boyd.
With Charles:
PG: Ionescu/Clarendon/Boyd?
SG: Durr/Johannes
SF: Nurse/Allen
PF: Charles/#13 pick
C: Zahui B/Stokes/Xu?
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Shades
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| Posted: 02/25/20 3:27 am ::: |
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| Stormeo wrote: |
Not if you consider Nurse a SG like I do. |
Oh, I do, as I recently posted on this thread. But to me it’s much more important to start the best players over being inflexible about player positioning.
| Stormeo wrote: |
| It's not a stretch for Johannès, who if you recall has only barely played half a season in the W, to continue to come off the bench - especially if the only thing she'll be able to do in this league is shoot 3's. What else in particular did she do last year? |
Seems like you know little about her and watched her even less. The new coach seems very impressed with her.
| Quote: |
| “Marine is one of the most talented players in the league right now that we really haven’t gotten a chance to see her shine and really show everybody what she’s capable of. But as I went through and I studied the team and I watched Marine, I was absolutely floored by the potential there. She can really do things I don’t really know for sure if I’ve ever been around a player who has that natural level of that she has that swagger to her . She can make a jump shot from anywhere inside half court... off the dribble, set. She passes at an unbelievable high level. She’s got great size.” |
I’ve been wanting the Lynx to bring her in for a few years now. So if Hopkins and I both like her, where have we’ve gone wrong?
| Stormeo wrote: |
| Which helps my point that Charles would be worth developing. |
Sure, she’s worth developing. But that doesn’t mean you should be starting her, which is the origin of this argument. I think the Liberty and their fans will be interested in winning this year.
| Stormeo wrote: |
| Still, she's 3 for 10 from three on the whole year, which is... more than very selective, imo. Jackie Young took 31 3's in her final year at Notre Dame |
Now it’s more obvious you’re arguing just for the sake of being contrary. Yeah I would say taking less than one three per game is very selective, especially for a perimeter player. Remember Charles is mostly playing the 4 this season.
| Stormeo wrote: |
| Yep, if I'm Reeve, I take that deal. We've covered that Lynx are the most loaded at SF and have a need for a PG. |
Yes, I’ve covered being overloaded at SF quite thoroughly. As far as a need for a PG, I wouldn’t call it a desperate need. I’m praying she won’t do anything desperate like when she added DRob. Hoped she learned her lesson from that move. Not being desperate includes not over-reaching for a PG at #6. Want BPA at that spot considering the current make up of the team.
| Stormeo wrote: |
| And really, who else would find KCK useful enough to trade for? |
I was hoping Vegas would if they‘d rather not bring back TYoung. I prefer their collection of possibly available PG’s over Boyd (Plum, Allen).
ATL could use her (and I believe it’s her home base) but they don’t exactly have any decent PG’s to spare. They are giving away Bentley for free though.
| Stormeo wrote: |
| The only thing is, getting Boyd would still mean Reeve would need to find a starting PG. I doubt even she would use Boyd as the starter. |
Reeve has stated the possibility of not having a conventional PG. That probably means the whole team are good facilitators so there’s less of a need to rely on one main conventional. I’m not sure if I should be nervous about that or not.
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Stormeo
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| Posted: 02/25/20 7:15 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| Oh, I do, as I recently posted on this thread. But to me it’s much more important to start the best players over being inflexible about player positioning. |
Then we can agree to disagree. As much as I think the Liberty’s logjam of true guards will hurt them, maybe it won’t. The Liberty fans on the board seem to agree with you in wanting to see what they can all do together, understandably; I myself am simply more pessimistic about its odds of working out. I just view three true SGs starting (between Ionescu, Durr, Nurse, and Johannès) as unsustainable and unlikely to have success, is all. Just as well, Nurse is the only one out of that group that I would even consider calling a "two-way" player, with the rest being offense-oriented; so while they can all at least shoot if not score in multiple ways, I find that potential combo of four to be defense-deprived and lacking in balance. Though you might even disagree with me about that, as well as viewing Ionescu and Johannès as true SGs. If so, more potential points & philosophies to agree to disagree on, I suppose.
And it’s not like anything imminent is coming with the Liberty guards anyway. I’d guess that Ionescu, Durr, and Nurse will be the opening-day perimeter starts for the Liberty, wouldn’t you? (Unless you think Johannès is good enough to start over one of them – and maybe that even happens.) Why argue about my hypothetical trade that in all likelihood won’t even happen, hmm? 
| Shades wrote: |
| Seems like you know little about her and watched her even less. The new coach seems very impressed with her. I’ve been wanting the Lynx to bring her in for a few years now. So if Hopkins and I both like her, where have we’ve gone wrong? |
It goes back to my point about fit, of course. I’m sure if you knew of her before she entered the league, you’ve watched her more than me; so if she ends up shining as a starter, then more booyahs for you; I for one don’t mind being wrong.  Now as it pertains to the Hopkins quote you posted, I’d like to see how much of that is true belief and how much is just him as a coach talking her up as a player – something many coaches do, in order to generate hype or build up trade value (in Johannès’ present case, it’d be the former). You’ll have to excuse me if I take at least his words’ with a grain of salt.
| Shades wrote: |
| Sure, she’s worth developing. But that doesn’t mean you should be starting her, which is the origin of this argument. I think the Liberty and their fans will be interested in winning this year. |
Ask the Liberty fans how likely they think it is that the Liberty will finish in the top half of the league, let alone win a championship this year – I think even the most casual of fans – as well as you, a passionate league follower here – would call at least a top-six finish "unlikely at best". But I think we can all agree that they and the other non-contenders need to put themselves in the best position to succeed now in order to someday get to that contender-status; no team is a contender forever, after all. If the Liberty make the playoffs with Johannès as a regular starter, then again, more booyahs for you and I’m happy to be wrong. I know you how much you love – maybe even need – those moments for yourself, even if you ever try to downplay it.
Anyways: Atkins, Clark, Moore, Beard, Moore again, Bonner, Moore again, Zellous, Moore again, Cash – these are all the SF starters for the championship-winning teams the past 10 years. Even out of the actual 7 different players, I have to squint to see a true SG on that list – maybe Atkins or Zellous? Though I’d still argue both were two-way G/F’s with more of a focus on defense than offense, if you had to pick one. If whoever the Liberty's SF starter is within their projected group of guards can morph into one of those types – as true SGs, no less – then more power to them.
| Shades wrote: |
| Now it’s more obvious you’re arguing just for the sake of being contrary. Yeah I would say taking less than one three per game is very selective, especially for a perimeter player. Remember Charles is mostly playing the 4 this season. |
…Did you not choose to engage in this whole discussion with me for the sake of being contrary? You could’ve read my remarks, scoffed at the ones you disagreed with, but then still chose not to type out responses. So, if that’s what I’m doing, then you are, too.
As for Kaila Charles, playing the 4 certainly doesn't inherently disqualify a player from shooting 3’s – and fwiw, she might still be playing more PF than any other position, but she has at least been starting on the perimeter in most of conference play. So even if Brenda Frese doesn’t allow her players in the post to be stepping out & shooting 3’s, Charles theoretically still has opportunity to shoot them when she does play on the perimeter.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 32335
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| Posted: 02/25/20 11:21 pm ::: |
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| IMO Kaila Charles is a long way from ready to start at the pro level. Even against the better college teams she tends to struggle. In the games I've watched, she's been pretty erratic. She not only can't shoot threes, she can't shoot FTs either which doesn't give me a lot of confidence that the shot will suddenly improve. And her equal TOs to Assists also doesn't inspire much enthusiasm. There's a reason she's not in the discussion as a top draft pick.
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If only we’re brave enough to be it.
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