RebKell's Junkie Boards

[toad455]

Us Liberty fans got spoiled early on with a young, up and coming broadcaster called Doris Burke. Burke was amazing, wonder what she's up to these days?

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LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!

Twitter: @TBRBWAY

[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

Gus Johnson and Doris Burke were an outstanding tandem and that was in the days where nearly every Libs game was covered locally. So we were spoiled in more ways than one.

When you consider where we are now...Ionescu will be the best PG the Liberty have ever had. As we hope to have a permanent move to Barclays, there’s no better way I can think of to do it.

Also of note, Kolb noted Johannes’ court vision and potential to play some PG in his interview. Ideally, having her back up Ionescu would be great.

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The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.

[LibFan25]

Lol lawd have mercy, that interview with Kolb made me wanna puke all over Chris Shearn. A lot of ASS KISSING...it made it seem like we went undefeated and we have no issues on the roster with anybody my gawd

Hartley was not good please stop it if they bring her back and Katie expect the same problems cuz Katie loves her some Hartley. she was a turnover machine just like Boyd. How much you wanna bet she will play more minutes if they draft Ionescu lolol

comical stuff...

GOTTA GO

Boyd: has showed flashes all her career but it's time to end this book
Hartley: up and down season she's average player to below player.
Wright : good leader but those miles on the car with it too high and slow for the W. (wouldn't mind her being assistant)
Katie Smith (which I doubt now cuz of that interview)

We need a coach, a coach that is gonna play the best players at the right time, there were so many times Katie in the season She would have no clue who to put in. She just doesn't have a feel of the game at all


Durr Situation

I still believe she will be a good one, she played well before getting hurt but root thing was right we needed a post for size and McGowan would of help us tremendously on the defense department.

The Draft

We need SIZE. Too many guards on this team, Nurse is a natural 2 I like that she can play the 3 but some nights she is undersized.

I'm okay with getting Ionescu. But I like Cox a lot and as of right now I'm leaning towards size.

Odom from Duke I like a lot and they should keep an eye on

Herbert Harrigan is another one to keep an eye on, great size for a 3 and beautiful jumper. I think Dawn Staley is gonna showcase her talent this fall

Those 2 we can definitely get 2nd round

Free agent

If copper from the Sky is available, Mr Kolb you should be on the phones working to get her

Sign Lindsay Allen back if she is available. She is not flashy but I like her poise and IQ

[LibFan25]

[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

I think drafting Durr helped us in at least one way. It strongly enabled us to get the #1 pick...though nobody could have forecast her getting injured. But had we drafted Collier or McCowan I think we would have snuck into the playoffs or more. At minimum, we'd have had worse lottery odds.

On the Cox vs. Ionescu debate that I am seeing on a variety of boards, particularly WNBA Fan's Page where he compared Ionescu to Plum and called her undersized (she's 5'11") , they both would serve a need. I look at it like this, if you draft Ionescu, you are set at 4 spots, and you can add to the 5 position without absolutely needing that spot to be a star player. It just has to be the right player who can fit the right role. If you add Cox, adding a middling PG isn't going to be good enough to drive a team to greatness, because having one player to readily facilitate for everyone else is just too important. Add in that Ionescu eats, sleeps and breathes basketball and will be an immediate leader...for a young player that's saying something. The Liberty need that. I think they've become too used to losing. And at times when you can see players laughing on the bench as they're getting destroyed on the court...when I see that I also think they've become too accepting of losing. Ionescu will change that. Ionescu's mentality reminds me somewhat of the way my own would be...the only difference being that she has the talent to be in a position to ask a lot of her teammates. As a basketball player, I didn't. I was a shooter and that's it. It's easier to demand excellence from teammates if you're an outstanding facilitator, shooter and clutch player. Among other things, I think Ionescu will do wonders for Tina. I wouldn't be surprised if they butt heads the way Wright and Tina did at one time...but Tina wound up loving Wright. I wouldn't be surprised to see a similar relationship develop here...with the added benefit that Ionescu has the ability to draw defensive attention away from Tina. An ability that Wright didn't have.

I do think if you could trade Durr for Collier right now (I doubt you could, wish is ironic given their draft positions and thought processes regarding each last year) you'd be an immediate championship contender without having to even add another piece, other than a functional Stokes (the iffy nature of that arguably being a reason to add another piece but I digress). My rationale would be threefold. First off, you could use Collier at the 4 spot in some undersized lineups with Johannes and Nurse on the wings while still being able to compete defensively. Collier is great on D no matter where she plays, and even at her height she'd be extremely disruptive even at the 4 spot, and even in help defense situations. Second, you'd start her at the 3 spot, which would enable Nurse to play her natural 2 spot. Third, she'd complete a young leadership nucleus with Ionescu and Nurse. Not only was she Nurse's roommate in college, but she was readily visible this past season talking in Lynx huddles.

I'm no longer complaining that we didn't draft Collier though, as I really don't think we'd be in this position right now if we had. Barring injury, Ionescu is going to be the pick. Kolb is an analytics guy and he will know as well as anyone that a player who eventually has the potential to average 8+ assists per game is not a player to pass on.

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The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.

[Shades]

Since Liberty fans seem to be of the dump Boyd mentality, the Liberty could consider a Boyd for Cazorla trade. Then Ionescu has somebody to vibe with.

Not sure how much Johannes will play next year, but you can probably increase the odds of it happening by keeping some combination of Hartley and Raincock. I wouldn’t assume Johannes wants to be on the Liberty team no matter what, unless you have some evidence to support that.

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Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned

[toad455]

If in order for Johannes to show up for at least half the season next means we have to re-sign Hartley, then so be it. Hartley can be our veteran guard on the team. Since Allen was used at the 4 towards then end of the season, I'd still prefer the Liberty to draft a SF at #13. This could mean that Gray gets dumped, too.

PG: Ionescu/free agent
SG: Durr/Johannes/Hartley
SF: Nurse/Allen/#13 pick
PF: Charles/Zahui B
C: Dolson/Stokes

_________________
LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!

Twitter: @TBRBWAY

[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

[ClayK]

Of course Katie Smith talks as if she's returning ... until she's fired, she would have to act as though she's coming back.

The key, really, is whether the Nets/Barclay CEO is also running the Liberty, and that question has not been answered yet. But even if he is, it may take him a while to dig down to the Liberty head coaching position, and when he does, it's possible he'll decide not to make a change until he knows more about the Liberty and WNBA.

It's also possible Smith will improve, and play the youngsters, and in fact she might even be directed to do so, but getting a better coach would be step one regardless of who is drafted.

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Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā

[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

I meant that Katie Smith spoke as if Johannes was returning. Said that next year's team was "set on the wings" and included Johannes in that group.

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The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.

[NYSports56]

A third year of Katie Smith will seriously test my loyalty to the 2020 version of this team. There's a knot in my stomach that's been here a year already and gets worse every game I watch her coach. The players need to unlearn losing. In fact, I'd almost suggest that she's poisoned the players to the point where everyone currently on the roster needs to go before the true healing can begin and the team can be competitive. That's what I think the 2nd year of Katie coaching did and why I was so against it.

If you think Ionescu is going to prop this team up to the point Katie can't ruin it, I put it to you that the losing mentality could just as easily drag Sabrina down. I don't know what really goes on, but my impression is that the locker room mentality is terrible right now. To put it perhaps too harshly, this team has turned into a bunch of quitters on the court, and Katie's inability to prevent that leaves me at a complete loss wondering how she will turn around the losing mentality in 2020. She has become the face of losing and the face of zero answers to turn around adversity.

I am virtually certain that it will take a different coach to reverse the mentality of the players, and I'm honestly not even sure it's possible without turning over the vast majority of the roster as well.

[Bob Lamm]

I disagree with and dislike the notion that our 2019 players were "quitters" on the court. I've been highly critical of Katie Smith's coaching not only this season but for most of the previous season. But I believe way too much emphasis is being put on the "mentality" of the team, how Katie Smith killed the "mentality" and how Sabrina Ionescu will raise the "mentality." (That's a hell of a lot to put on a rookie.)

It's wonderful that we will have Ionescu. Katie Smith has to go. But the main reason that the Liberty were terrible in 2018 and 2019 is that the roster was quite weak. Smith did a lousy job, but no coach would have made those two rosters into a strong team.

The Liberty will be better in 2020, no matter who is the coach, because Ionescu will be a big improvement at point guard over Wright, Hartley, and Boyd. How much better? We'll see. A better coach would surely help.

[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

Again I present this article, with quotes:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2817445-sabrina-ionescu-is-always-on

[Bob Lamm]

Of course losing affects athletes on any level. That's WAY different from calling athletes "quitters."

I don't care if you can produce 100 quotes from Ionescu and others about how she won't accept losing. To say that she "is not going to accept" losing borders on fantasy. Suppose she's the starting point guard in 2020 and the Liberty begins by losing the first four games. What is Ionescu going to do? Run around blasting all her teammates to their faces? Blast them in the press? Demand a trade? Is that what you do when you're on a lousy team?

Ionescu's talent will definitely help the team. Her "mentality" will definitely help the team. It's great that the Liberty will have her in 2020 and beyond. Just don't expect a rookie to take a 10-24 team and completely transform it. The weaknesses of other players--and the weaknesses of Katie Smith if she's still the coach--will still be there.

[Happycappie25]

Agree quitting the wrong word...And if morale was bad WCC is one HELL of a mitigating factor

2018 some quit those I thought did not a one was re signed (Vaughn Prince Coleman Rodgers)

2013 Bill admitted there were some attitudes detrimental to winning...he scorched the earth and did a 100% roster turn over 2years and was briefly fired over it...including his first 2 draft picks in NY and made a commitment to chemistry that led us to the magical 2015 squad (who I still say deserve a banner for winning the regular season less about that blown lead the better Still have the crack in my wall from hitting it that day.)

Like then I think the nuts and bolts are in place...Barclays is part of the equation

I do think Katie doesn't manage games well enough to be at this level and the team lacked discipline....

Lacking discipline at key times not the same as quitting

But I can see where fans can think that

My only beef with the Kolb interview aside from Shearn being annoying was banking on Johannes let her take the year off for the Olympics that's a fillable hole han id prefer take the year and compete at a very high level rather than sit on the bench...we can keep both seats warm for 25th anniversary

If johannes' presence is tied to Hartley im not as hellbent on keeping both as a package SGs are replaceable.

Durr we will see how healthy she is post surgery....May want a veteran or Hartley to be there just in case

One thing I will say

Ionescu is that good...more of a pure PG than plum. SHE'S FOR REAL miles ahead of Cox or anyone else even if people come out

I do think she needs a veteran to ease her into the W pace...Boyd CAN be that veteran but if prefer a free agent depending on the market

L. Allen isn't crazy but let's see how she is health wise

As for talent I think both last 2 years were 500 clubs who finished well well below that 2018 with a bunch of vets being screwed was understandable...And there were players who have up and they didn't come back

This year draft posturing was part of it esp late but this was not a ten win team and that's why I'm hard on Katie and I hear it from others. She may pull a brondello yes but here just not seeing it need a coach who can get and demand the best and I think Katie is too much a players coach at this point in her career. Nothing wrong but new team new star means new leadership for me just the business

So yes id buy tickets but id seriously question upstairs if Katie comes back

Arena #1 but coach situation close #2 now that we have ionescu on the way barring injury

And with Fox's durability concerns and Carter being a popcorn shooter when we already have durr....it's not a question who #1 is

Gap that big hype is REAL...May be the biggest winner in terms of attitude we've had since spoon and that's not slighting some of our past leaders

She's just that good

Think Bird NOT Plum

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"Leave it to the NCAA women's basketball committee to turn a glass slipper into glass ceiling" Graham Hays

[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

And Plum is already developing into a good player, but Ionescu is much more of a Bird/Taurasi/Slooty hybrid. Diana Taurasi transformed an 8-win Phoenix team into 17 wins. That's a 9-game improvement. Sue Bird transformed a 10-win Seattle team into 17 wins. Unlike either of those teams, the Liberty will have 4 solid starters. If they improve 7-9 games, that's 17-19 wins, and I don't think anyone here believes the Liberty were a 10-win team in talent to begin with.

Happycappie is right though. Ionescu is that good. I don't like to say it, but I don't think Katie is being let go. I think if she was, they already would have made that decision. There's no upside to let her twist in the wind. I'd rather a new coach, but I just don't see it happening.

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The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.

[Happycappie25]

[Bob Lamm]

Regarding Katie Smith, among the possibilities:

--Katie has already been told she's gone, but they don't want to announce that until after the playoffs are over. Or until they have a new coach under contract.

--Kolb and whomever genuinely haven't decided on Katie's fate. There are some people they have in mind but aren't sure they can get. If not, they may bring Katie back.

--There is internal chaos about who will be deciding what for the Liberty. This is certainly possible given the hiring of David Levy as the new CEO of the Nets and the Barclay Center. Levy may be pondering whether to take over the Liberty as well. Jonathan Kolb's immediate future may be uncertain. So any decision about hiring a new coach or retaining Katie may have to wait till it's decided who will actually be making that decision.

It's possible that the silence thus far means that Katie will be back in 2020. But I believe any of the above guesses are also possible.

[root_thing]

1) I watch a lot of PAC-12 basketball. Ionescu is nothing like Plum. Kelsey was a great scorer, but at best she was an average college playmaker. No one should ever read Barcoff. It's like that old commercial where they show fried eggs as your brain on drugs. That's what Barcoff does to your brain. He had everyone believing that Durr was out for disciplinary reasons when Asia actually needed hip surgery.

2) Unless Ionescu has a really bad year, don't overthink it. Don't start looking for flaws and talk yourself out of doing the obvious. Remember all the McCowan "Big Galoot" stuff? I'm sure we'll hear all about Ionescu being a slow, unathletic, white girl. She'll be criticized every time she has a bad game and fans will say, "See, I told you she was overrated!" Players aren't machines. Even the great ones have their collection of mediocre and bad games over the course of a season. Just tune out. Look at the big picture rather than magnifying the minutiae.

3) I don't believe anyone quit, this year or last. I just think Katie is unable to counter when other teams adjust. That's why things suddenly fall apart. The opposing coach makes a change, and Katie's like, "Um, what do I do now?" I think she's that overmatched when it comes to Xs and Os. Meanwhile, the players are stuck with whatever lame response she comes up with -- if any. Since they seem to like Katie more than they object to losing, I guess they're forced to accept the losing. I think it's more of a denial response. They've talked themselves into the idea that better days are coming.

4) Smith is also working out how to deploy a lot of players like Charli Turner Thorne and Doug Bruno. Whether or not Katie has the right personnel to play that way doesn't seem to concern her. And for the longest time, she was moving people in and out while leaving Charles on the floor. Instead of waves, it was waves surrounding Tina. Maybe it will work in the long-run, but for now I just think the hockey line changes are an unnecessary complication.

5) I doubt David Levy is going to have much impact on Kolb. Unless Kolb's been terrible in his brief tenure, I don't see why he should be in trouble. I assume Tsai was involved in his hiring. Stripping him of power now would be pretty rash. As for Levy, I'm sure priorities 1,2,3,4,5 are the Nets and Barclay's. The arena is unprofitable. Not sure about the Nets themselves, but there's a reason why Mikhail Prokorov walked away. It is Levy's job to determine whether Tsai is a visionary or the greater fool. He's got plenty on his plate without the Liberty.

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You can always do something else.

[pilight]

[Bob Lamm]

[ClayK]

And Kolb may not have wanted to fire Katie, or make any major moves, until Levy was in place and able to sign off. If I were in Kolb's shoes, I'd wait my turn outside Levy's office until the chain of command was crystal clear, and I knew just how interested Levy is in how the Liberty are run.

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Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā

[Lib Fan]

[root_thing]

Is it possible that Kolb wants to delay any significant moves until he speaks with the new executive? Yes, it's possible. However, I'm also guessing that it's a formality. David Levy is a media executive -- 32 years at Turner Broadcasting. His specialty is negotiating contracts and trying to get games on multiple platforms. Tsai also gave hm a leadership role in the family sports investing venture:

[Bob Lamm]

To root_thing Your analysis is completely logical. But have you never seen a corporation make an illogical decision and fire someone? Have you never seen a corporation make a major move that's "awkward"? I have at least 100 times, inside and outside the sports world. And that's why I won't go beyond saying that Kolb's job is "probably" but not definitely safe.