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LibFan25
Joined: 01 Sep 2012 Posts: 895 Location: NY
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Posted: 02/25/20 6:36 pm ::: |
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PickledGinger wrote: |
LibFan25 wrote: |
For fun 2024 draft
Top 5 right now
Zia Cooke
Aliyah Boston
Hayley Jones
Rickea Jackson
Lavender Briggs
The future is in good hands |
This would be the 2023 Draft. Ashley Owusu, Charisma Osbourne and Ashten Pretchel have been standouts as well. We’ll see how well UND does going forward but Sam Brunelle has put up decent stats. Ayoka Lee and Aijah Blackwell - even though their teams aren’t great - both have pro-ready bodies.
2022 is a looking like a solid year as well, mostly big wings and posts.
My Top 1st Round Right Now
1. Rhyne Howard
Shakira Austin
Charli Collier
Elissa Cunane
Queen Egbo
Katlyn Gilbert
Lexie Hull
Ashley Joens
Olivia Nelson-Ododa
NaLyssa Smith
Evina Westbrook
Chrysten Williams |
Yes you're right just edited it lol
Charli Collier is my fav on this list with Westbrook if she doesn't leave early is 2nd
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010 Posts: 5381 Location: Chocolate Paradise
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Posted: 02/26/20 5:35 pm ::: |
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This is a question for the PAC-12 experts. How is Ruthy Hebard a better pro prospect than Jillian Alleyne?
_________________ You can win, as long as you keep your head to the SKY! Be OPTIMISTIC!
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019 Posts: 4701
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Posted: 02/26/20 6:29 pm ::: |
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Rock Hard wrote: |
This is a question for the PAC-12 experts. How is Ruthy Hebard a better pro prospect than Jillian Alleyne? |
To me, Alleyne’s game was slightly more “bully-ball” in that it was less about skill & more about crashing the glass, getting put backs, and muscling her way to the rim. She’s a little more solidly built than Hebard, so that was a big part of her game, though Hebard has built herself up over these past few years, I’ve noticed. Playing in Paul Westhead’s offense-only system also built up her stats at first. I’d say Hebard has a slight edge in footwork, post moves, and face-up development - better translation to the W. If Alleyne had never torn her ACL at the worst possible time for her, she would’ve gone in the mid-to-late first-round in that 2016(?) Draft. Still, I find them pretty similar overall - they almost look like they could be related too.
Someone out there should ask Kelly Graves this question, since he coached Alleyne in her last two seasons, I believe.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 10911
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Posted: 02/26/20 6:37 pm ::: |
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Hebard is an inch taller as well.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63790
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Posted: 02/26/20 7:21 pm ::: |
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Aari McDonald is participating in Senior Day ceremonies. It’s no guarantee, but she must be seriously considering entering the draft.
https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketball/2020/2/26/21154951/aari-mcdonald-wnba-draft-arizona-womens-basketball-senior-day-2020-stanford-cal
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Arizona Wildcats fans shouldn’t panic when redshirt junior Aari McDonald goes through Senior Day ceremonies on Sunday.
Head coach Adia Barnes said it has nothing to do with the star guard’s WNBA Draft status.
“She’s always planned on doing that,” Barnes said Wednesday. “It wasn’t something that just came up. She’s graduating so she wants to walk with her classmates.” |
Weird explanation. If she graduates, she should walk with her classmates. But what does have to do with basketball Senior Day? If she knows she’s going to be back, she should just wait until next year.
If Slocum also enters the draft, there’s going to nice choices at #14.
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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mavcarter #NATC
Joined: 02 Sep 2010 Posts: 5935 Location: Chicago
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Posted: 02/26/20 7:30 pm ::: |
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*scratches head*_________________
wrote: |
Or maybe said poster should quit being a nuisance when people don’t agree? |
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12539 Location: Dallas , Texas
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Posted: 02/26/20 7:57 pm ::: |
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McDonald could be a grad transfer and play at a bigtime program next year to help build her stock . It could also hurt her stock as i feel the glimpse of her playing with less talent is more beneficial then seeing her surrounded with more talent attempting to stand out .
_________________ 3-Time WNBA Champion-3-Time National Champion-4-Time Olympic Champion....And Yes DT "We Got Confeti" lol
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010 Posts: 5381 Location: Chocolate Paradise
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019 Posts: 4701
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Posted: 02/27/20 12:13 am ::: |
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Rock Hard wrote: |
Randy wrote: |
Hebard is an inch taller as well. |
I am not an officer of the HPD. (Height Police Department)
Every game with Hebard that I have watched she does not appear to be six feet four inches tall. When she plays against players who are supposed to be equivalent to her height she always appears to be on the short side of six feet four inches tall. |
We might've discussed this picture before but in case we haven't, it's from Oregon's 2018-19 roster page: https://goducks.com/sports/womens-basketball/roster/2018-19
The back row from L-to-R: Boley (6'2), S. Sabally (6'4), Giomi (6'6), Hebard (6'4), and N. Sabally (6'5). Everyone's wearing the same shoes, and it appears that each person in the back row is standing up straight.
If Boley's really 6'2 and Giomi's really 6'6, I'd put Hebard at 6'3. I'd also put both Sabally sisters at maybe 6'4.
But it also seems like no one's actual correct height is ever listed. Maybe before players take their first measurements, they're all asked to wear the biggest/tallest pair of athletic or even casual shoes they can find.
While we're on the subject of Oregon WBB, I have a question: what makes people think Satou Sabally will be more of a SF rather than a PF in the W? She doesn't play SF that often, and I don't consider her to be too undersized or not meaty enough to play PF.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 10911
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Posted: 02/27/20 8:05 am ::: |
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I'd be willing to bet that Hebard is not the only player who's height is overstated. I think most every WNBA player is given an extra inch or two, particularly the posts. But, some players are probably "uplisted" more than others. (Remember Shakahtor?) So we'll see.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24361 Location: London
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Posted: 02/27/20 9:06 am ::: |
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Stormeo wrote: |
While we're on the subject of Oregon WBB, I have a question: what makes people think Satou Sabally will be more of a SF rather than a PF in the W? She doesn't play SF that often, and I don't consider her to be too undersized or not meaty enough to play PF. |
She has perimeter-level mobility and actual off-the-bounce offensive skills. I think a team may well use her as a 3 offensively but with her ability to defend 4s at the other end coming in useful for playing with lineups. I've likened her to a potentially-even-better DeWanna Bonner. |
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 7365 Location: Underground
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Posted: 02/27/20 10:22 am ::: |
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I’ve made the same comparison to Bonner. Sabally is DeWanna with more meat on her body and more consistency with her 3-pt shot. If your need is at PF, you can certainly use her there. But to take full advantage of Satou’s mismatch potential, you should play her at SF.
As Commissioner of the Height Police, I agree that Hebard looks shorter than 6-4 compared to other players listed at 6-4 whether they’re also lying or not. In other words, if those lying players are 6-3, then Ruthy is 6-2. If they’re really 6-4, then Hebard is 6-3 and so on.
_________________ You can always do something else.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11155
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Posted: 02/27/20 10:48 am ::: |
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I feel Alleyne was more of an athlete and Hebard is more of a basketball player.
I do agree that the 6-3 Hebard is far from a sure thing in the WNBA, as she will be an undersized five who may have trouble scoring. I think she's athletic enough to defend and rebound.
Of course, if she could play the four, her value would go up, but she would need some kind of perimeter game to make that happen.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32336
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Posted: 02/27/20 11:04 am ::: |
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I think the scale for Ruthy is, at the extreme upside, Nneka, and at the lower end, Megan Gustafson. As she is now, I believe she's a bit better/quicker than Megan but with a similar skillset. Nneka is undersized for her position but makes up for it with her motor and smarts. Ruthy looks like she has a shot out to about 12-14'. She will need to work on extending it of course. Her nimbleness around the basket is truly outstanding. Remember she came from nowheresville out of high school and has seriously improved every year since. People say that Sabrina makes her better, which of course has some truth, but I would also say that she helps make Sabrina better. Their timing together is really a work of art and the fact that she can catch even the weirdest pass and finish with it certainly helps Sabrina's assist numbers.
_________________ For there is always light,
if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
- Amanda Gorman
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 7365 Location: Underground
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Posted: 02/27/20 12:02 pm ::: |
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I don’t think Hebard is anywhere near as skilled as Gustafson. Megan is better at getting open, has better footwork, and is better at creating shooting angles. Gustafson was a machine last season. Even in her “bad” game against Baylor in the NCAA tournament, she scored 23 points on 9-17 shooting and grabbed 9 rebounds. We’ve seen Hebard get shutdown. Off the top of my head I remember a game against Syracuse and recently against Stanford. Note that Ruthy has much better support than Megan did – Kathleen Doyle and Hannah Stewart were good, but they’re not Ionescu and Sabally. As far as the comparison between Hebard and Ogwumike goes, Nneka is much more explosive athletically. She makes up for lack of height with strength and jumping ability, as well as skill and smarts. Hebard doesn’t strike me as being that physical or aggressive.
Honestly, I think last year’s second tier post players were better coming out of college than this year’s class – at the moment anyway. Anigwe was better than Mompremier is now. Alanna Smith was better than Alarie is right now. Since Gustafson, Anigwe, and Smith are currently viewed as disappointments, a team might do better buying low on these players rather than drafting high on the 2020 class. With all the players and picks Dallas has, Anigwe and/or Gustafson might get cut. Right now, Alanna Smith is behind Breland and Turner on the depth chart, and who knows the impact of bringing in Kia Vaughn or maybe Angel Robinson returning. Smith’s roster spot doesn’t look secure. So, last year’s “busts” may be available for a low draft pick if you don’t want to wait until final cuts (i.e., get them into camp early). To me, it’s a viable option if you don’t love this year’s post players.
_________________ You can always do something else.
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bballnut901
Joined: 28 Aug 2018 Posts: 50
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Posted: 02/27/20 12:52 pm ::: |
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Anyone else think Hebard might be Crystal Langhorne 2.0? Both have fantastic touch around the rim, quick post moves and are just really efficient players. Neither is a stalwart defender or shot blocker. Similar size, although Ruthy might be maybe an inch taller. I've thought Ruthy has a lot more similarities to her than the Ogwumikes or Gustafson.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12539 Location: Dallas , Texas
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Posted: 02/27/20 1:10 pm ::: |
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bballnut901 wrote: |
Anyone else think Hebard might be Crystal Langhorne 2.0? Both have fantastic touch around the rim, quick post moves and are just really efficient players. Neither is a stalwart defender or shot blocker. Similar size, although Ruthy might be maybe an inch taller. I've thought Ruthy has a lot more similarities to her than the Ogwumikes or Gustafson. |
SPOT on ! I do think Ruthy is a bit more agile than Langhorne , but i definitely see the similarities.
_________________ 3-Time WNBA Champion-3-Time National Champion-4-Time Olympic Champion....And Yes DT "We Got Confeti" lol
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32336
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Posted: 02/27/20 1:42 pm ::: |
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root_thing wrote: |
I don’t think Hebard is anywhere near as skilled as Gustafson. Megan is better at getting open, has better footwork, and is better at creating shooting angles. Gustafson was a machine last season. |
I agree Gustafson was fun to watch in college, but if you think Hebard is less skilled, then IMO you probably haven't watched her enough.
_________________ For there is always light,
if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
- Amanda Gorman
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fanaticka
Joined: 02 Dec 2011 Posts: 101 Location: Czech Republic
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Posted: 02/27/20 2:15 pm ::: |
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Richyyy wrote: |
Stormeo wrote: |
While we're on the subject of Oregon WBB, I have a question: what makes people think Satou Sabally will be more of a SF rather than a PF in the W? She doesn't play SF that often, and I don't consider her to be too undersized or not meaty enough to play PF. |
She has perimeter-level mobility and actual off-the-bounce offensive skills. I think a team may well use her as a 3 offensively but with her ability to defend 4s at the other end coming in useful for playing with lineups. I've likened her to a potentially-even-better DeWanna Bonner. |
And also Bonner played almost solely the four her first year in the league. It was the next season and later when they trusted her shooting and ballhandling to play 2-4.
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019 Posts: 4701
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Posted: 02/27/20 2:34 pm ::: |
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WNBA 09 wrote: |
bballnut901 wrote: |
Anyone else think Hebard might be Crystal Langhorne 2.0? Both have fantastic touch around the rim, quick post moves and are just really efficient players. Neither is a stalwart defender or shot blocker. Similar size, although Ruthy might be maybe an inch taller. I've thought Ruthy has a lot more similarities to her than the Ogwumikes or Gustafson. |
SPOT on ! I do think Ruthy is a bit more agile than Langhorne , but i definitely see the similarities. |
+1. That agility will only help Hebard play PF even better. Imo her ceiling will be either a starting PF or a C off the bench. I can't see her having much success against other starting C's if she's started there. Langhorne has also had to develop a 3-point shot in order to stay in the league, since she's never been particularly fast or athletic - just very fundamentally sound. Hebard has more athleticism than her, so as long as she develops a mid-range game, I don't think she'll ever have to develop a 3-point shot (though it won't hurt her of course).
fanaticka wrote: |
Richyyy wrote: |
Stormeo wrote: |
While we're on the subject of Oregon WBB, I have a question: what makes people think Satou Sabally will be more of a SF rather than a PF in the W? She doesn't play SF that often, and I don't consider her to be too undersized or not meaty enough to play PF. |
She has perimeter-level mobility and actual off-the-bounce offensive skills. I think a team may well use her as a 3 offensively but with her ability to defend 4s at the other end coming in useful for playing with lineups. I've likened her to a potentially-even-better DeWanna Bonner. |
And also Bonner played almost solely the four her first year in the league. It was the next season and later when they trusted her shooting and ballhandling to play 2-4. |
Ok thanks for the input. Yeah, if nothing else she appears to be a 3-4 "tweener". In order for any tweener to have a good career, ya really have to have plus talent, and Sabally for sure has that. It'll be interesting to see if she gravitates more towards one of those two positions and how that could affect her team's composition around her (ie Delle Donne identifying more as a 4 these days). I'm still sort of wondering the same thing about Breanna Stewart, who might even have three positions to choose from...
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12539 Location: Dallas , Texas
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Posted: 02/27/20 3:04 pm ::: |
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myrtle wrote: |
root_thing wrote: |
I don’t think Hebard is anywhere near as skilled as Gustafson. Megan is better at getting open, has better footwork, and is better at creating shooting angles. Gustafson was a machine last season. |
I agree Gustafson was fun to watch in college, but if you think Hebard is less skilled, then IMO you probably haven't watched her enough. |
____________________
_________________ 3-Time WNBA Champion-3-Time National Champion-4-Time Olympic Champion....And Yes DT "We Got Confeti" lol
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TotalCardinalMove
Joined: 13 Oct 2013 Posts: 1466
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Posted: 02/27/20 4:09 pm ::: |
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Not sure I agree. Gustafson had a large arsenal of post moves and her ability to get open and establish positioning was due to her footwork and fundamentals. If Hebard didn’t have Sabrina, I’m not sure she’d be as capable of being as dominant as Gustafson was. Like Root mentioned, Gustafson was capable of doing what she did being #1 on everyone’s scouting report. You could argue that Hebard is priority #3.
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010 Posts: 5381 Location: Chocolate Paradise
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Posted: 02/27/20 5:46 pm ::: |
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TotalCardinalMove wrote: |
Not sure I agree. Gustafson had a large arsenal of post moves and her ability to get open and establish positioning was due to her footwork and fundamentals. If Hebard didn’t have Sabrina, I’m not sure she’d be as capable of being as dominant as Gustafson was. Like Root mentioned, Gustafson was capable of doing what she did being #1 on everyone’s scouting report. You could argue that Hebard is priority #3. |
Thanks to you and everyone for giving details on Hebard's overall game.
_________________ You can win, as long as you keep your head to the SKY! Be OPTIMISTIC!
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 7365 Location: Underground
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Posted: 02/27/20 7:38 pm ::: |
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WNBA 09 wrote: |
myrtle wrote: |
root_thing wrote: |
I don’t think Hebard is anywhere near as skilled as Gustafson. Megan is better at getting open, has better footwork, and is better at creating shooting angles. Gustafson was a machine last season. |
I agree Gustafson was fun to watch in college, but if you think Hebard is less skilled, then IMO you probably haven't watched her enough. |
____________________ |
More likely you'all didn't watch Gustafson enough.
Admittedly, I haven't had as much access to the Pac-12 this season, but I've probably seen Oregon half a dozen times this year and at least a dozen times last season. I’m not saying Hebard doesn’t have skill – bballnut901’s comparison to Langhorne is pretty good. Everyone has always considered Crystal’s footwork to be excellent. However, Gustafson’s ability to maneuver in the low post was probably the best I’ve ever seen. If you want to argue that Hebard is a better athlete and has that extra ability to work with, go ahead. I was just talking about skill and guile. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was the most deadly player I ever saw down low, but all he had to do was throw that sky hook over people. It took skill, but being a lot taller than everyone else sure helped. For this comparison, I'm not convinced Hebard being quicker than Gustafson is going to make that much difference in the paint, but it's certainly debatable. To me, the skill issue isn't.
Again, I’ve seen Hebard held in check this season. Almost no one could slow Gustafson last year even though every opposing coach was probably game-planning to stop her. On top of that, she succeeded against some of the best post players in the country:
Notre Dame (Brianna Turner, Jessica Shepard): 26 pts (11-16) 10 rebs
Michigan State (Jenna Allen): 30 pts (11-19) 14 rebs
Michigan (Hallie Thome): 21 pts (9-14) 16 rebs; rematch 27 pts 9 rebs
Maryland (Shakira Austin, Stephanie Jones): 31 pts (10-18 ) 17 rebs; rematch 45 pts (17-24) 10 rebs
NC State (Elissa Cunane): 27 pts (10-14) 13 rebs
Baylor (Kalani Brown, Lauren Cox): 23 pts (9-17) 9 rebs
Gustafson pretty much showed up for every game regardless of the opponent.
_________________ You can always do something else.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32336
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Posted: 02/27/20 8:16 pm ::: |
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well, I kinda thought like you last year, but this year I've tried to key in and specifically watch Hebard more and have realized that a) she really does have a lot of 'moves'; b) her positioning is great, c) she has fabulous hands, and d) like I said before, I truly think she helps Sabrina as much as Sabrina helps her. Does she still have a lot to learn? yep!
And...since I had Gustafson on my fantasy team, I did watch her quite a lot (happily I might add!). I think Hebard can deal with contact better than Megan can, but neither of them are stellar defensively. I also think Ruthy will do better off the bench as a C until she can get a bit more range to operate as a PF. I'm not saying she's a lottery pick, but do think she's a middle first rounder and has a lot of potential, more than Megan, or Anigwe for that matter. JMO.
_________________ For there is always light,
if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
- Amanda Gorman
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