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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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 Posted: 03/03/17 6:46 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
It's a buck-stops-here business ... who hired the recruiting person who put together this roster?
And if you're right that it was bad luck not lack of talent that sank the LV ship this year, then why fire Elzy? From what you laid out, it wasn't her fault. And if you're firing people for things that weren't their fault, that's not exactly sterling leadership either.
I don't think it's possible to deflect the criticism from Holly Warlick, good person though she may be. Of course, if all the pieces fall into place next year -- and your analysis leads me to think they have a very good chance of doing so -- then all will be forgiven.
But at some point, a leader has to rally the troops and guide them through the tough times while maintaining morale and focus. So far, I haven't gotten the impression that Warlick has managed to do that ... |
CHW hired Elzy. That's on her. Tenn's current FR (Kamera Harris) and SO (Meme Jackson) skimpy classes were assembled under Elzy's stint as recruiting coordinator, so that's on her. It was reportedly her decision to put her recruiting eggs all in one basket that Tenn never had any hope of hatching. Hence the acquisition of Nunn and Green, and Elzy's departure. Given Reeves' success in one year, the change looks like a better decision, at least at this early juncture.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7860
Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 03/03/17 7:15 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
It's a buck-stops-here business ... who hired the recruiting person who put together this roster?
And if you're right that it was bad luck not lack of talent that sank the LV ship this year, then why fire Elzy? From what you laid out, it wasn't her fault. And if you're firing people for things that weren't their fault, that's not exactly sterling leadership either.
I don't think it's possible to deflect the criticism from Holly Warlick, good person though she may be. Of course, if all the pieces fall into place next year -- and your analysis leads me to think they have a very good chance of doing so -- then all will be forgiven.
But at some point, a leader has to rally the troops and guide them through the tough times while maintaining morale and focus. So far, I haven't gotten the impression that Warlick has managed to do that ... |
Either you are being deliberately obtuse, or you you haven't bothered to read anything else I've written on the subject, or both.
Elzy was fired after last year. Reaves was hired thereafter and seemed to help some. The debacle of this year...three players who were seen as key going down with injury, one career-ending...was unforeseeable. That took the heart right out of this team, as I see it. I think if anyone tried to put the heart back in them and keep them going, it was probably Jaime Nared. As I have said before, it is something that a coach can't really do. It comes from the team, and I think the loss of Carter may have broken the heart of this team in a way that for some reason just couldn't be fixed. Not having Cooper or Green put more monkey wrenches into it. Citing other teams with short benches isn't helpful; it's the particular seven players or so you've got.
And you know what? You can think, and plan, and figure all you want, and do all the math, and you STILL aren't going to know how all the pieces will fit together until they get there and start playing....and even then, sh*t can happen. Or as my late ex used to say, anything can happen and most generally does.
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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PRballer
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 03/03/17 7:25 pm ::: |
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Say what you want about fault/blame, etc., but I've never really been impressed with Jordan Reynolds. She showed some spunk in the SEC tournament her freshmen year, but if this is your senior point guard, you're not going very far. The press conference didn't change that impression I've had of her.
You have to give HW a chance with this new recruiting class so we'll assess in 3-4 years.
Separately, but related - I've enjoyed watching NC State and how hard they play and how disciplined they are. I have to put on my Tennessee hat and think that Wes Moore would be #1 choice for next coach if Holly doesn't work out.
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Ladyvol777
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 03/03/17 10:49 pm ::: |
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| PRballer wrote: |
Say what you want about fault/blame, etc., but I've never really been impressed with Jordan Reynolds. She showed some spunk in the SEC tournament her freshmen year, but if this is your senior point guard, you're not going very far. The press conference didn't change that impression I've had of her.
You have to give HW a chance with this new recruiting class so we'll assess in 3-4 years.
Separately, but related - I've enjoyed watching NC State and how hard they play and how disciplined they are. I have to put on my Tennessee hat and think that Wes Moore would be #1 choice for next coach if Holly doesn't work out. |
I would love to have Wes Moore at Tennessee, I watch him when he coached at Chattanooga.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15754
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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| Posted: 03/03/17 11:46 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| I think if anyone tried to put the heart back in them and keep them going, it was probably Jaime Nared. As I have said before, it is something that a coach can't really do. |
Yes, they CAN. Pat did it, better than anyone. Geno does it. Kim does it. Vic does it. The Best do it. And the VERY best make it look like it's the kids, and even get the kids to believe it's themselves.
And it's not an all-or-nothing thing....it's on a sliding scale, but The Best definitely have that ability.
Re: the "we overlooked them" comment....to me, that's just a cliché. I mean, it happens, but to what extent that was a factor in this game, who knows? IFFF it were true or valid, then the blame lays squarely on the coaches. These are 20-year olds....they *overlook* lots of stuff. In this setting? That oversight is the coach's to prevent.
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Last edited by Howee on 03/04/17 8:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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bballgrl
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
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| Posted: 03/03/17 11:50 pm ::: |
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| I am not a Tenn fan as I have mentioned before. As far as HW as coach goes it must be remembered that she is NOT Pat. A lot of people, myself included, thought Pat was mean to her team. Then after she passed I read 2 of her books and discovered that she really loved those kids and they knew it. It changed my perception of her. HW may love the kids as well but she just doesn't have and probably will never have the fire that Pat had when it comes to getting the players to do what she wants them to do and that is the problem. All Pat had to do was give some player the "stare" not saying one word, and they would get it together. I saw her call Shannon Bobbit to the sideline and yell at her that "it is not about you" and Shannon got it together. HW doesn't have that in her which is why the team pretty much does what it wants to. That team needs a tough and loving coach and HW is not such a coach.
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zvyn3
Joined: 20 Jul 2013
Posts: 418
Location: away from here
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| Posted: 03/04/17 9:59 am ::: |
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| I don't remotely believe that they overlooked Alabama. The real problems are much bigger than that.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 03/04/17 10:38 am ::: |
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| zvyn3 wrote: |
| I don't remotely believe that they overlooked Alabama. The real problems are much bigger than that. |
Reynolds was put on the spot, had to come up with an answer to the question, and she came up with that instead of throwing the coach or any particular player under the bus.
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Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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| Posted: 03/04/17 10:54 am ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| zvyn3 wrote: |
| I don't remotely believe that they overlooked Alabama. The real problems are much bigger than that. |
Reynolds was put on the spot, had to come up with an answer to the question, and she came up with that instead of throwing the coach or any particular player under the bus. |
OTOH, CHW never throws players under the bus or calls them out in public, beyond saying "X didn't have one of her best games tonight." Sometimes I think she shoulders a lot of blame for things that aren't her fault.
That Reynolds and Russell both said the same thing suggests to me that there's more than a kernel of truth there about overlooking Bama. However, I agree the team has bigger problems.
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zvyn3
Joined: 20 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 03/04/17 12:21 pm ::: |
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| They probably said that because they thought it would be the right thing to say. They know they can't say the real reason they lost, which is "our coach sucks."
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 03/04/17 12:24 pm ::: |
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Let me make this real simple. Anyone who took basic chemistry should understand it. Know what a catalyst is? If you have that you have the reaction. Without a catalyst, you have nothing, no matter how much you stir the pot. That's how it works. Now do you get it?
They lost their catalyst (Carter) and no matter how much she tried (and I think she really did try) Jaime Nared just couldn't be it, for whatever reason. Holly couldn't fix that. Not this year.
_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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PlayBally'all
Joined: 17 Oct 2013
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| Posted: 03/04/17 1:04 pm ::: |
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Everything that has happened screams problems with team chemistry. It just looks like some of them frankly don't like each other.
Personally speaking, I love Andy and Nell. I actually enjoy their analysis regardless of which team they are analyzing. In my opinion, they bring more to the table than any other duo covering women's basketball.
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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| Posted: 03/04/17 2:53 pm ::: |
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| PlayBally'all wrote: |
Everything that has happened screams problems with team chemistry. It just looks like some of them frankly don't like each other.
Personally speaking, I love Andy and Nell. I actually enjoy their analysis regardless of which team they are analyzing. In my opinion, they bring more to the table than any other duo covering women's basketball. |
Good summary on both counts.
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PRballer
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 03/04/17 3:33 pm ::: |
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| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| PlayBally'all wrote: |
Everything that has happened screams problems with team chemistry. It just looks like some of them frankly don't like each other.
Personally speaking, I love Andy and Nell. I actually enjoy their analysis regardless of which team they are analyzing. In my opinion, they bring more to the table than any other duo covering women's basketball. |
Good summary on both counts. |
Agree. It's been fun following the SEC and they have nice chemistry with Maria Taylor, who is a really solid lead host.
Over at the ACC games, I love Beth and Debbie but they're missing calls happening in the game action while the jab away about offense.
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zvyn3
Joined: 20 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 03/04/17 5:41 pm ::: |
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| PlayBally'all wrote: |
| Everything that has happened screams problems with team chemistry. It just looks like some of them frankly don't like each other. |
I don't agree with that at all. I've never seen anything to suggest that any players don't like each other.
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PlayBally'all
Joined: 17 Oct 2013
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| Posted: 03/04/17 11:57 pm ::: |
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| zvyn3 wrote: |
| PlayBally'all wrote: |
| Everything that has happened screams problems with team chemistry. It just looks like some of them frankly don't like each other. |
I don't agree with that at all. I've never seen anything to suggest that any players don't like each other. |
When they play top tier competition, games in which they have been the underdog this year, they play like a cohesive unit. When the pressure is off, they lose games that they have no business losing. Not always, but usually, players have the ability to look past issues or differences when they know the alternative is getting embarrassed. When they play someone that they assume they will be able to over power with talent, everything becomes about "me" and not "we." When someone doesn't block out or travels or a number of other things, their mistakes are "her" fault and they don't pick each other up like they should. All of a sudden, they find themselves down double digits and instead of a sense of urgency, they become disgusted at another teammate and they play tight. Playing like that will get you beat most days.
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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| Posted: 03/05/17 11:07 am ::: |
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| I agree, except I've seen the me--we issues occur in big games as well. When a player makes a mistake, and a teammate puts her hands on her hips and rolls her eyes, there's a problem, a big problem.
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