View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Jlcarter
Joined: 03 Jul 2013 Posts: 461
Back to top |
Posted: 01/17/17 8:02 pm ::: Stay in school or go pro |
Reply |
|
For players who are not seniors. That are elgible for the draft. Players like Diamond DeShields, Mercedes Russell, and others. Who can enter the draft if they choose to. Should the players stay or go?
|
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66773 Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
Posted: 01/17/17 8:09 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
WNBA salary: $55,000
Money in Russia: $900,000
Two kegger weekends: Priceless
Stay in school kids, you won't regret it
_________________ Let us not deceive ourselves. Our educational institutions have proven to be no bastions of democracy.
|
|
summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7746 Location: Shenandoah Valley
Back to top |
Posted: 01/17/17 8:17 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Leave it up to them and stay out of it..
How many of Pat's players got advanced degrees while playing? I can remember teams with at least 3 grad students on them.
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
|
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
Back to top |
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66773 Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
Posted: 01/17/17 11:13 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
ArtBest23 wrote: |
pilight wrote: |
Money in Russia: $900,000
|
How many American players are getting paid anything remotely close To $900k, and for those few, how many years did they play to get to that number?
If there was actually a serious opportunity to come out and make close to a million bucks per year, that would dramatically change the calculus. |
I was giving the most optimistic scenario for a college superstar. I still think staying in school is the best option.
_________________ Let us not deceive ourselves. Our educational institutions have proven to be no bastions of democracy.
|
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
Back to top |
Posted: 01/17/17 11:24 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
pilight wrote: |
ArtBest23 wrote: |
pilight wrote: |
Money in Russia: $900,000
|
How many American players are getting paid anything remotely close To $900k, and for those few, how many years did they play to get to that number?
If there was actually a serious opportunity to come out and make close to a million bucks per year, that would dramatically change the calculus. |
I was giving the most optimistic scenario for a college superstar. I still think staying in school is the best option. |
I agree with you as a general matter, but a large factor in that assessments is that decent money just isn't a realistic opportunity for more than perhaps one or two players at most each year, and maybe not that many.
One factor, though, is that the rule change a few years ago allowing schools to start paying scholarships during the summer before freshman year has made graduating in three years far more realistic for many players. If someone has their degree afterthree years, or only needs 3 credits or whatever, the importance of staying the fourth year is diminished.
|
|
Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63713
Back to top |
Posted: 01/17/17 11:26 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
pilight wrote: |
ArtBest23 wrote: |
pilight wrote: |
Money in Russia: $900,000
|
How many American players are getting paid anything remotely close To $900k, and for those few, how many years did they play to get to that number?
If there was actually a serious opportunity to come out and make close to a million bucks per year, that would dramatically change the calculus. |
I was giving the most optimistic scenario for a college superstar. I still think staying in school is the best option. |
Each situation is different so making a blanket statement makes no sense to me. If Mitchell is so close to graduating that she could finish in the summer, I wouldn't stick around even though she's very scholastic. It's obvious basketball is gonna be her life for the next 15 years. Might as well get a start on it. She'd have a better chance being a #1 in 2017 than in 2018 going against Aja Wilson.
Carter, we cover this stuff pretty extensively over in the WNBA section. You should take a gander.
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
|
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
Back to top |
Posted: 01/17/17 11:30 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Shades wrote: |
pilight wrote: |
ArtBest23 wrote: |
pilight wrote: |
Money in Russia: $900,000
|
How many American players are getting paid anything remotely close To $900k, and for those few, how many years did they play to get to that number?
If there was actually a serious opportunity to come out and make close to a million bucks per year, that would dramatically change the calculus. |
I was giving the most optimistic scenario for a college superstar. I still think staying in school is the best option. |
Each situation is different so making a blanket statement makes no sense to me. If Mitchell is so close to graduating that she could finish in the summer, I wouldn't stick around even though she's very scholastic. It's obvious basketball is gonna be her life for the next 15 years. Might as well get a start on it. She'd have a better chance being a #1 in 2017 than in 2018 going against Aja Wilson.
Carter, we cover this stuff pretty extensively over in the WNBA section. You should take a gander. |
Choosing the most favorable draft year is certainly a legitimate factor. I expect that was a large part of Loyd's analysis, and it was smart of her to come out when she would be the #1 pick.
|
|
FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014 Posts: 3510
Back to top |
Posted: 01/18/17 2:08 am ::: |
Reply |
|
ArtBest23 wrote: |
One factor, though, is that the rule change a few years ago allowing schools to start paying scholarships during the summer before freshman year has made graduating in three years far more realistic for many players. If someone has their degree after three years, or only needs 3 credits or whatever, the importance of staying the fourth year is diminished. |
It may be diminished but it's still a great opportunity for a player to work on a graduate degree on the school's dime, particularly if their long-term career goal isn't sports-related.
Then the calculation is:
WNBA salary $55K
One year of a master's program $50-100K
|
|
IM in OC
Joined: 25 Mar 2009 Posts: 999 Location: Orange County, CA
Back to top |
Posted: 01/18/17 7:39 am ::: |
Reply |
|
I thought the WNBA first year salary is around $38-39K. Besides the 2 players mentioned wouldnt get anywhere near $900K for a salary, let alone offered a job in the Russian League. They arent good enough. E. Prince left early but she was very talented and she left to help her mom get out of a bad neighborhood she lived in. Who are the others who have left early and it was for a good reason, and have done well?
|
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66773 Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
Posted: 01/18/17 8:47 am ::: |
Reply |
|
IM in OC wrote: |
I thought the WNBA first year salary is around $38-39K. Besides the 2 players mentioned wouldnt get anywhere near $900K for a salary, let alone offered a job in the Russian League. They arent good enough. E. Prince left early but she was very talented and she left to help her mom get out of a bad neighborhood she lived in. Who are the others who have left early and it was for a good reason, and have done well? |
Lottery picks make $55k as rookies. If a player isn't a lottery pick, they shouldn't be thinking about coming out early.
_________________ Let us not deceive ourselves. Our educational institutions have proven to be no bastions of democracy.
|
|
Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63713
Back to top |
|
FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014 Posts: 3510
Back to top |
Posted: 01/18/17 11:22 am ::: |
Reply |
|
IM in OC wrote: |
I thought the WNBA first year salary is around $38-39K. Besides the 2 players mentioned wouldnt get anywhere near $900K for a salary, let alone offered a job in the Russian League. They arent good enough. E. Prince left early but she was very talented and she left to help her mom get out of a bad neighborhood she lived in. Who are the others who have left early and it was for a good reason, and have done well? |
Candace Parker had another year of eligibility remaining when she left Tenn (with her degree) for the draft, proving pilight's point..
|
|
ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11105
Back to top |
Posted: 01/18/17 11:48 am ::: |
Reply |
|
There are other issues, notably injury and market value.
We are talking some serious money here (at least for me), because not many 22-year-olds can make $200,000 a year. And one year at $200,000 (say a player gets injured at the end of what would have been her senior season) is probably at least four years' worth of income for a graduating college senior in the real world.
Also, that $200,000 can never be made up, though as Art points out, getting one year of grad school paid for is certainly a factor for some. But let's say a player has a 12-year career at $200,000 a year if she comes out early, and 11 years if not. That's an 8% loss in income, and a big chunk of change.
Assuming the player does get her degree at some point, and either isn't eligible or isn't interested in grad school, leaving early definitely makes financial sense, even without factoring in the risk of injury and making zero.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
|
|
Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012 Posts: 2539
Back to top |
Posted: 01/18/17 12:09 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Go pro. Why not, they can finish up their degree on line or whenever they want. Nobody owns these kids. For some reason these NCAA pundits think they do.
|
|
LitePal
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 Posts: 613
Back to top |
Posted: 01/18/17 12:50 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
$55k is not too bad for three-four months work. A degree in English wouldn't net you that much annually. A lot of these players will spend the majority of their lives in basketball, as coaches, administrators, etc. It will help them to have a degree for those purposes.
|
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
Back to top |
Posted: 01/18/17 1:14 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
FrozenLVFan wrote: |
ArtBest23 wrote: |
One factor, though, is that the rule change a few years ago allowing schools to start paying scholarships during the summer before freshman year has made graduating in three years far more realistic for many players. If someone has their degree after three years, or only needs 3 credits or whatever, the importance of staying the fourth year is diminished. |
It may be diminished but it's still a great opportunity for a player to work on a graduate degree on the school's dime, particularly if their long-term career goal isn't sports-related.
Then the calculation is:
WNBA salary $55K
One year of a master's program $50-100K |
Well you've answered your own question, haven't you. If you assume the person isn't planning on playing pro sports, then a decision about leaving to play pro sports is rather moot, isn't it?
There was a women who left Stanford early last year, though, because she wanted to get started on her business career, iirc. Evidently graduate school was irrelevant and of no interest.
EDit - it was Kailee Johnson and she said "This was an extremely difficult decision, but I’m eager to start my career."
|
|
kool-aide
Joined: 09 Jun 2009 Posts: 1650
Back to top |
Posted: 01/18/17 1:29 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
I don't think we should assume that players who leave with eligibility remaining are forgoing a degree. Particularly if a player took a redshirt.
|
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66773 Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
Posted: 01/18/17 1:43 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
There's no real evidence to suggest players who stay four years have shorter careers than those who leave after three.
The WNBA isn't going anywhere. Neither are the overseas leagues. Players are going to make the same money whether they leave now or a year from now.
OTOH, you can't put a price on a year as a carefree 21-year-old college student. It would take a hell of a lot more money than a WNBA player will ever make for me to give that up.
_________________ Let us not deceive ourselves. Our educational institutions have proven to be no bastions of democracy.
|
|
PlayBally'all
Joined: 17 Oct 2013 Posts: 271
Back to top |
Posted: 01/18/17 1:47 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Stay in school. If we are being honest, the WNBA could fold at any time. You cannot lose money every year and continue indefinitely, unless you are a government program.
|
|
Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63713
Back to top |
Posted: 01/18/17 1:48 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Then you got Lili Thompson, who most likely earned a degree from Stanford. What does she want to do? She wants to go to ND to help her draft stock, because her draft stock is at 0 now.
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
|
|
Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63713
Back to top |
Posted: 01/18/17 1:59 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Look at the case of Morgan Tuck. She practically guaranteed everyone before her last season that she would be staying her full eligibility to work on her Masters, and even she ended up entering the draft early. The lure of the WNBA is stronger than you think.
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
|
|
Jlcarter
Joined: 03 Jul 2013 Posts: 461
Back to top |
Posted: 01/18/17 2:41 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
I think more players are starting to leave early. However I think the bigger problem is transferring. It seems to be more players transfers than ever. If its choosing the right school. Or something happened to that player.
|
|
FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014 Posts: 3510
Back to top |
Posted: 01/18/17 5:03 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
ArtBest23 wrote: |
FrozenLVFan wrote: |
ArtBest23 wrote: |
One factor, though, is that the rule change a few years ago allowing schools to start paying scholarships during the summer before freshman year has made graduating in three years far more realistic for many players. If someone has their degree after three years, or only needs 3 credits or whatever, the importance of staying the fourth year is diminished. |
It may be diminished but it's still a great opportunity for a player to work on a graduate degree on the school's dime, particularly if their long-term career goal isn't sports-related.
Then the calculation is:
WNBA salary $55K
One year of a master's program $50-100K |
Well you've answered your own question, haven't you. If you assume the person isn't planning on playing pro sports, then a decision about leaving to play pro sports is rather moot, isn't it?
There was a women who left Stanford early last year, though, because she wanted to get started on her business career, iirc. Evidently graduate school was irrelevant and of no interest.
EDit - it was Kailee Johnson and she said "This was an extremely difficult decision, but I’m eager to start my career." |
No, you've assumed the player isn't planning to play pro sports. I said "long-term" not next year. No one is going to play pro sports forever and pro players may or may not go into coaching vs some other field.
|
|
ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11105
Back to top |
Posted: 01/18/17 5:30 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Every player hits a sell-by date, so your career length is your career length, whether you play your age 22 year in college or the pros.
Now trading your senior year in college for $150,000 or $200,000 is a decision I think a lot of us would struggle with, but I think I would have taken the money in a heartbeat. Others will feel differently, of course, but that's a lot of money ...
It's an even more significant sum if your career is four years (or in the unlikely event the WNBA goes broke). If you lose $150,000 out of a 10-year, $1.5 million career, that's different than losing $150,000 out of a four-year, $600,000 career -- and a blown-out knee can change everything.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
|
|
|
|