RebKell's Junkie Boards
Board Junkies Forums
 
Log in Register FAQ Memberlist Search RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index

Stay in school or go pro
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » NCAA Women's Basketball - General Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Jlcarter



Joined: 03 Jul 2013
Posts: 461



Back to top
PostPosted: 01/17/17 8:02 pm    ::: Stay in school or go pro Reply Reply with quote

For players who are not seniors. That are elgible for the draft. Players like Diamond DeShields, Mercedes Russell, and others. Who can enter the draft if they choose to. Should the players stay or go?


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66773
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 01/17/17 8:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA salary: $55,000
Money in Russia: $900,000
Two kegger weekends: Priceless

Stay in school kids, you won't regret it



_________________
Let us not deceive ourselves. Our educational institutions have proven to be no bastions of democracy.
summertime blues



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7746
Location: Shenandoah Valley


Back to top
PostPosted: 01/17/17 8:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Leave it up to them and stay out of it..

How many of Pat's players got advanced degrees while playing? I can remember teams with at least 3 grad students on them.



_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550



Back to top
PostPosted: 01/17/17 11:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:

Money in Russia: $900,000


How many American players are getting paid anything remotely close To $900k, and for those few, how many years did they play to get to that number?

If there was actually a serious opportunity to come out and make close to a million bucks per year, that would dramatically change the calculus.

summertime blues wrote:
Leave it up to them and stay out of it..



And how, pray tell, is anyone here interfering with anyone's decision by discussing it on this message board? Rolling Eyes


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66773
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 01/17/17 11:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
pilight wrote:

Money in Russia: $900,000


How many American players are getting paid anything remotely close To $900k, and for those few, how many years did they play to get to that number?

If there was actually a serious opportunity to come out and make close to a million bucks per year, that would dramatically change the calculus.


I was giving the most optimistic scenario for a college superstar. I still think staying in school is the best option.



_________________
Let us not deceive ourselves. Our educational institutions have proven to be no bastions of democracy.
ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550



Back to top
PostPosted: 01/17/17 11:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
pilight wrote:

Money in Russia: $900,000


How many American players are getting paid anything remotely close To $900k, and for those few, how many years did they play to get to that number?

If there was actually a serious opportunity to come out and make close to a million bucks per year, that would dramatically change the calculus.


I was giving the most optimistic scenario for a college superstar. I still think staying in school is the best option.


I agree with you as a general matter, but a large factor in that assessments is that decent money just isn't a realistic opportunity for more than perhaps one or two players at most each year, and maybe not that many.

One factor, though, is that the rule change a few years ago allowing schools to start paying scholarships during the summer before freshman year has made graduating in three years far more realistic for many players. If someone has their degree afterthree years, or only needs 3 credits or whatever, the importance of staying the fourth year is diminished.


Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63712



Back to top
PostPosted: 01/17/17 11:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
pilight wrote:

Money in Russia: $900,000


How many American players are getting paid anything remotely close To $900k, and for those few, how many years did they play to get to that number?

If there was actually a serious opportunity to come out and make close to a million bucks per year, that would dramatically change the calculus.


I was giving the most optimistic scenario for a college superstar. I still think staying in school is the best option.


Each situation is different so making a blanket statement makes no sense to me. If Mitchell is so close to graduating that she could finish in the summer, I wouldn't stick around even though she's very scholastic. It's obvious basketball is gonna be her life for the next 15 years. Might as well get a start on it. She'd have a better chance being a #1 in 2017 than in 2018 going against Aja Wilson.

Carter, we cover this stuff pretty extensively over in the WNBA section. You should take a gander.



_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550



Back to top
PostPosted: 01/17/17 11:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
pilight wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
pilight wrote:

Money in Russia: $900,000


How many American players are getting paid anything remotely close To $900k, and for those few, how many years did they play to get to that number?

If there was actually a serious opportunity to come out and make close to a million bucks per year, that would dramatically change the calculus.


I was giving the most optimistic scenario for a college superstar. I still think staying in school is the best option.


Each situation is different so making a blanket statement makes no sense to me. If Mitchell is so close to graduating that she could finish in the summer, I wouldn't stick around even though she's very scholastic. It's obvious basketball is gonna be her life for the next 15 years. Might as well get a start on it. She'd have a better chance being a #1 in 2017 than in 2018 going against Aja Wilson.

Carter, we cover this stuff pretty extensively over in the WNBA section. You should take a gander.


Choosing the most favorable draft year is certainly a legitimate factor. I expect that was a large part of Loyd's analysis, and it was smart of her to come out when she would be the #1 pick.


FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 3510



Back to top
PostPosted: 01/18/17 2:08 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
One factor, though, is that the rule change a few years ago allowing schools to start paying scholarships during the summer before freshman year has made graduating in three years far more realistic for many players. If someone has their degree after three years, or only needs 3 credits or whatever, the importance of staying the fourth year is diminished.


It may be diminished but it's still a great opportunity for a player to work on a graduate degree on the school's dime, particularly if their long-term career goal isn't sports-related.
Then the calculation is:
WNBA salary $55K
One year of a master's program $50-100K


IM in OC



Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 999
Location: Orange County, CA


Back to top
PostPosted: 01/18/17 7:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I thought the WNBA first year salary is around $38-39K. Besides the 2 players mentioned wouldnt get anywhere near $900K for a salary, let alone offered a job in the Russian League. They arent good enough. E. Prince left early but she was very talented and she left to help her mom get out of a bad neighborhood she lived in. Who are the others who have left early and it was for a good reason, and have done well?


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66773
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 01/18/17 8:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

IM in OC wrote:
I thought the WNBA first year salary is around $38-39K. Besides the 2 players mentioned wouldnt get anywhere near $900K for a salary, let alone offered a job in the Russian League. They arent good enough. E. Prince left early but she was very talented and she left to help her mom get out of a bad neighborhood she lived in. Who are the others who have left early and it was for a good reason, and have done well?


Lottery picks make $55k as rookies. If a player isn't a lottery pick, they shouldn't be thinking about coming out early.



_________________
Let us not deceive ourselves. Our educational institutions have proven to be no bastions of democracy.
Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63712



Back to top
PostPosted: 01/18/17 9:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
IM in OC wrote:
I thought the WNBA first year salary is around $38-39K. Besides the 2 players mentioned wouldnt get anywhere near $900K for a salary, let alone offered a job in the Russian League. They arent good enough. E. Prince left early but she was very talented and she left to help her mom get out of a bad neighborhood she lived in. Who are the others who have left early and it was for a good reason, and have done well?


Lottery picks make $55k as rookies. If a player isn't a lottery pick, they shouldn't be thinking about coming out early.


That's about $3500 high, but players are well taken care of in the benefits department. There's even a profit sharing program that we never hear much about. Potential bonuses for team and individual achievements. Biggest factor might be endorsements. How much is Nike paying the more prominent players? How much is Jordan Brands paying Maya? Heck, even Jude Schimmel is getting paid.




_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned


Last edited by Shades on 01/18/17 3:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 3510



Back to top
PostPosted: 01/18/17 11:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

IM in OC wrote:
I thought the WNBA first year salary is around $38-39K. Besides the 2 players mentioned wouldnt get anywhere near $900K for a salary, let alone offered a job in the Russian League. They arent good enough. E. Prince left early but she was very talented and she left to help her mom get out of a bad neighborhood she lived in. Who are the others who have left early and it was for a good reason, and have done well?


Candace Parker had another year of eligibility remaining when she left Tenn (with her degree) for the draft, proving pilight's point..


ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 11105



Back to top
PostPosted: 01/18/17 11:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There are other issues, notably injury and market value.

We are talking some serious money here (at least for me), because not many 22-year-olds can make $200,000 a year. And one year at $200,000 (say a player gets injured at the end of what would have been her senior season) is probably at least four years' worth of income for a graduating college senior in the real world.

Also, that $200,000 can never be made up, though as Art points out, getting one year of grad school paid for is certainly a factor for some. But let's say a player has a 12-year career at $200,000 a year if she comes out early, and 11 years if not. That's an 8% loss in income, and a big chunk of change.

Assuming the player does get her degree at some point, and either isn't eligible or isn't interested in grad school, leaving early definitely makes financial sense, even without factoring in the risk of injury and making zero.



_________________
Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
Nixtreefan



Joined: 14 Nov 2012
Posts: 2539



Back to top
PostPosted: 01/18/17 12:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Go pro. Why not, they can finish up their degree on line or whenever they want. Nobody owns these kids. For some reason these NCAA pundits think they do.


LitePal



Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 613



Back to top
PostPosted: 01/18/17 12:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

$55k is not too bad for three-four months work. A degree in English wouldn't net you that much annually. A lot of these players will spend the majority of their lives in basketball, as coaches, administrators, etc. It will help them to have a degree for those purposes.


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550



Back to top
PostPosted: 01/18/17 1:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
One factor, though, is that the rule change a few years ago allowing schools to start paying scholarships during the summer before freshman year has made graduating in three years far more realistic for many players. If someone has their degree after three years, or only needs 3 credits or whatever, the importance of staying the fourth year is diminished.


It may be diminished but it's still a great opportunity for a player to work on a graduate degree on the school's dime, particularly if their long-term career goal isn't sports-related.
Then the calculation is:
WNBA salary $55K
One year of a master's program $50-100K


Well you've answered your own question, haven't you. If you assume the person isn't planning on playing pro sports, then a decision about leaving to play pro sports is rather moot, isn't it?

There was a women who left Stanford early last year, though, because she wanted to get started on her business career, iirc. Evidently graduate school was irrelevant and of no interest.

EDit - it was Kailee Johnson and she said "This was an extremely difficult decision, but I’m eager to start my career."


kool-aide



Joined: 09 Jun 2009
Posts: 1650



Back to top
PostPosted: 01/18/17 1:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't think we should assume that players who leave with eligibility remaining are forgoing a degree. Particularly if a player took a redshirt.


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66773
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 01/18/17 1:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There's no real evidence to suggest players who stay four years have shorter careers than those who leave after three.

The WNBA isn't going anywhere. Neither are the overseas leagues. Players are going to make the same money whether they leave now or a year from now.

OTOH, you can't put a price on a year as a carefree 21-year-old college student. It would take a hell of a lot more money than a WNBA player will ever make for me to give that up.



_________________
Let us not deceive ourselves. Our educational institutions have proven to be no bastions of democracy.
PlayBally'all



Joined: 17 Oct 2013
Posts: 271



Back to top
PostPosted: 01/18/17 1:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stay in school. If we are being honest, the WNBA could fold at any time. You cannot lose money every year and continue indefinitely, unless you are a government program.


Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63712



Back to top
PostPosted: 01/18/17 1:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Then you got Lili Thompson, who most likely earned a degree from Stanford. What does she want to do? She wants to go to ND to help her draft stock, because her draft stock is at 0 now.



_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63712



Back to top
PostPosted: 01/18/17 1:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Look at the case of Morgan Tuck. She practically guaranteed everyone before her last season that she would be staying her full eligibility to work on her Masters, and even she ended up entering the draft early. The lure of the WNBA is stronger than you think.



_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
Jlcarter



Joined: 03 Jul 2013
Posts: 461



Back to top
PostPosted: 01/18/17 2:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think more players are starting to leave early. However I think the bigger problem is transferring. It seems to be more players transfers than ever. If its choosing the right school. Or something happened to that player.


FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 3510



Back to top
PostPosted: 01/18/17 5:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
FrozenLVFan wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
One factor, though, is that the rule change a few years ago allowing schools to start paying scholarships during the summer before freshman year has made graduating in three years far more realistic for many players. If someone has their degree after three years, or only needs 3 credits or whatever, the importance of staying the fourth year is diminished.


It may be diminished but it's still a great opportunity for a player to work on a graduate degree on the school's dime, particularly if their long-term career goal isn't sports-related.
Then the calculation is:
WNBA salary $55K
One year of a master's program $50-100K


Well you've answered your own question, haven't you. If you assume the person isn't planning on playing pro sports, then a decision about leaving to play pro sports is rather moot, isn't it?

There was a women who left Stanford early last year, though, because she wanted to get started on her business career, iirc. Evidently graduate school was irrelevant and of no interest.

EDit - it was Kailee Johnson and she said "This was an extremely difficult decision, but I’m eager to start my career."


No, you've assumed the player isn't planning to play pro sports. I said "long-term" not next year. No one is going to play pro sports forever and pro players may or may not go into coaching vs some other field.


ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 11105



Back to top
PostPosted: 01/18/17 5:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Every player hits a sell-by date, so your career length is your career length, whether you play your age 22 year in college or the pros.

Now trading your senior year in college for $150,000 or $200,000 is a decision I think a lot of us would struggle with, but I think I would have taken the money in a heartbeat. Others will feel differently, of course, but that's a lot of money ...

It's an even more significant sum if your career is four years (or in the unlikely event the WNBA goes broke). If you lose $150,000 out of a 10-year, $1.5 million career, that's different than losing $150,000 out of a four-year, $600,000 career -- and a blown-out knee can change everything.



_________________
Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » NCAA Women's Basketball - General Discussion All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB 2.0.17 © 2001- 2004 phpBB Group
phpBB Template by Vjacheslav Trushkin