| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Oldfandepot2
Joined: 05 Jul 2013
Posts: 996
Location: Northeast
Back to top |
|
Conway Gamecock
Joined: 23 Jan 2015
Posts: 1900
Location: Here
Back to top |
|
dtsnms
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 18815
Back to top |
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
|
summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7828
Location: Shenandoah Valley
Back to top |
 Posted: 10/18/16 12:20 pm ::: |
Reply  |
|
| Jeff Jacobs needs to grow up. That's tacky even for a serious fan of any school.
_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
|
|
myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 32335
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/18/16 12:24 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Serious question: Why did the BE break up? I know it didn't have to do with basketball but what was it? Because of football?
UConn in the B12 makes no sense anyway in a geographic sense, but I guess geography has gone by the wayside as a deciding factor. Hell, maybe they want to join the P12? That would make about as much sense. For basketball, they would fit nicely in the ACC as the partner school for Boston College.
_________________
For there is always light,
if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
- Amanda Gorman
|
|
myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 32335
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/18/16 12:26 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| summertime blues wrote: |
| Jeff Jacobs needs to grow up. That's tacky even for a serious fan of any school. |
It was a little over the top but I thought it refreshingly honest at least. Sometimes I get tired of all the pc stuff.
_________________
For there is always light,
if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
- Amanda Gorman
|
|
dtsnms
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 18815
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/18/16 1:00 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| summertime blues wrote: |
| Jeff Jacobs needs to grow up. That's tacky even for a serious fan of any school. |
I disagree; yes, I didn't like the headline, but I've heard more than one national correspondent say the same thing. This was just ridiculous.
|
|
dtsnms
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 18815
Back to top |
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/18/16 1:00 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| myrtle wrote: |
Serious question: Why did the BE break up? I know it didn't have to do with basketball but what was it? Because of football?
UConn in the B12 makes no sense anyway in a geographic sense, but I guess geography has gone by the wayside as a deciding factor. Hell, maybe they want to join the P12? That would make about as much sense. For basketball, they would fit nicely in the ACC as the partner school for Boston College. |
Because the teams in the conference no longer had a common interest. Half were not interested in football, and some others wanted to keep adding more football schools and to demand more of the revenue and control. And as those completely dissimilar schools were added for no reasons other than that they had a football team, the cohesiveness of the conference eroded further.
The final straw was when in 2011 they turned down a reasonably lucrative TV deal only to end up with offers for a fraction of that amount, and the two sides started pointing fingers. The death spiral had begun and schools who had the opportunity to get far more lucrative slots (WVU, Pitt, Syr, Rutgers) jumped at them.
I don't think the schools like Georgetown and SJU and Nova had any interest in being in a conference with a bunch of directional state schools with bad basketball programs. And they weren't going to agree add a bunch of schools with lousy basketball teams and give the "football block" a voting majority in the conference. Finally it got to the point of "if that's what you want to do, fine, go do it, and we'll go our own way."
It was, in part, due to basketball because adding schools like USF, and the proposed additions of of UCF, ECU, Army, and the like was further diluting the basketball stature of the conference. But it was football that was driving the insistence of some schools that those new schools be added.
In the end, the difference among the schools outweighed the common interests and it made no sense to remain together. And there wasn't enough money being offered to keep these two dissimilar groups together.
|
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/18/16 1:20 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| dtsnms wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| Jeff Jacobs needs to grow up. That's tacky even for a serious fan of any school. |
I disagree; yes, I didn't like the headline, but I've heard more than one national correspondent say the same thing. This was just ridiculous. |
Yeah, the B12 looked ridiculous (largely thanks to Boren and his big mouth and even bigger ego), but a lot of people think in the end they got it right (although they jerked a lot of people around in the process). (Actually who looked sillier is a good question, the B12, or schools like Memphis, USF, and the Governor of Texas making spectacles of themselves begging or demanding invites? At least UConn exhibited restraint and class in the process, which is more than can be said for some other institutions.)
Interesting viewpoint in the KC Star
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/sam-mellinger/article108849207.html
|
|
GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8225
Location: Heisenberg
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/18/16 1:44 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
When newspapers used to be relevant and competent, copy editors usually wrote headlines not the reporter or columnist. I have no idea whether that still holds at the Courant.
Jacobs is the most talented wordsmith covering sports in Connecticut. Nuggets from an earlier Big 12 column of his:
| Quote: |
| A secret poll of the 10 Big 12 coaches picking the two schools for expansion had BYU and Houston getting five votes, Cincinnati and Memphis getting four. Nobody else had more than one vote. UConn got zero. The coaches don't have the vote, nor should they. The presidents do. |
I have difficulty thinking of a reason why any of the B12 presidents would have any different opinion, and they apparently didn't.
But here are some non-sequiturs uttered by UConn president Susan Herbst:
| Quote: |
"I don't believe that there is another candidate for a Power Five league with our first-rate academic standing, international reach and outstanding faculty," Herbst said.
Herbst talked about record-breaking undergraduate applications and a major academic health center. |
Hey, Sue, what's any of that stuff have to do with the Big 12's sole interest in maximizing revenue from sports, particularly football?
I don't think UConn was a good fit for the B12 or vice versa -- athletically, culturally or geographically.
Returning to the Big East is atavistic romantic nostalgia. The current Big East no longer has the core of yore: Gone are Syracuse, Boston College, Pittsburgh, Miami, Rutgers, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, Notre Dame and Louisville.
Geographically, culturally and footbally, UConn should be in some sort of Northeastern league, but its most likely destiny is to remain in the Frankenstein AAC. Deal with it. |
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/18/16 2:03 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
When newspapers used to be relevant and competent, copy editors usually wrote headlines not the reporter or columnist. I have no idea whether that still holds at the Courant.
Jacobs is the most talented wordsmith covering sports in Connecticut. Nuggets from an earlier Big 12 column of his:
| Quote: |
| A secret poll of the 10 Big 12 coaches picking the two schools for expansion had BYU and Houston getting five votes, Cincinnati and Memphis getting four. Nobody else had more than one vote. UConn got zero. The coaches don't have the vote, nor should they. The presidents do. |
I have difficulty thinking of a reason why any of the B12 presidents would have any different opinion, and they apparently didn't.
But here are some non-sequiturs uttered by UConn president Susan Herbst:
| Quote: |
"I don't believe that there is another candidate for a Power Five league with our first-rate academic standing, international reach and outstanding faculty," Herbst said.
Herbst talked about record-breaking undergraduate applications and a major academic health center. |
Hey, Sue, what's any of that stuff have to do with the Big 12's sole interest in maximizing revenue from sports, particularly football?
I don't think UConn was a good fit for the B12 or vice versa -- athletically, culturally or geographically.
Returning to the Big East is atavistic romantic nostalgia. The current Big East no longer has the core of yore: Gone are Syracuse, Boston College, Pittsburgh, Miami, Rutgers, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, Notre Dame and Louisville.
Geographically, culturally and footbally, UConn should be in some sort of Northeastern league, but its most likely destiny is to remain in the Frankenstein AAC. Deal with it. |
What do you want her to say?
"Our football team can stand toe to toe with Texas, OU, OKSt, TCU, Baylor, KSt and any other Big12 team in quality, history, attendance and fan support."
"We have really strong wrestling, track & field, softball, golf and swimming teams just like other Big 12 schools. What do you mean they don't sponsor field hockey, lacrosse or hockey?"
"Our fans from Greenwich, New Haven, and New London have culturally so much in common with fans from Stillwater, Waco, Lubbock and Manhattan, Ks. We are really looking forward to tailgating with those folks."
|
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
|
GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8225
Location: Heisenberg
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/18/16 3:35 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
What do you want her to say?
"Our fans from Greenwich, New Haven, and New London have culturally so much in common with fans from Stillwater, Waco, Lubbock and Manhattan, Ks. We are really looking forward to tailgating with those folks." |
Well now, we certainly wouldn't want a president who fibs.
Herbst could have said: "Our fans from Greenwich, New Haven and New London mostly went to fancy private schools, consider everyone in all the Big 12 states to be deplorable and irredeemable, and to the extent any of them have ever attended a football game, they only eat Beluga on kale in the back seat of a Hummer or Lexus SUV."
That would've enthralled the Hook 'em Horns and Boomer Sooner legions. |
|
linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 5423
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/18/16 7:09 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
What do you want her to say?
"Our fans from Greenwich, New Haven, and New London have culturally so much in common with fans from Stillwater, Waco, Lubbock and Manhattan, Ks. We are really looking forward to tailgating with those folks." |
Well now, we certainly wouldn't want a president who fibs.
Herbst could have said: "Our fans from Greenwich, New Haven and New London mostly went to fancy private schools, consider everyone in all the Big 12 states to be deplorable and irredeemable, and to the extent any of them have ever attended a football game, they only eat Beluga on kale in the back seat of a Hummer or Lexus SUV."
That would've enthralled the Hook 'em Horns and Boomer Sooner legions. |
Greenwich may be geographically part of Connecticut but demographically they are New Yorkers. I would predict that if you stopped 50 people in that town and asked them directions to Storrs 25 would never have heard of it and the rest would point east and shrug their shoulders. This same group would however know three great places to eat in Central Park East. Travel out to the Sterling/Voluntown area and you'd find most people there would fit right in among the residents of Texas.
The B12 is a mess,TV contract-wise because of the Longhorn Network. I wouldn't be surprised to see it disappear within 10 years.
|
|
Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63764
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/24/16 10:32 am ::: |
Reply |
|
http://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-huskies/hc-big-12-question-and-answer-1018-20161017-story.html
| Quote: |
Now that we know UConn isn't joining the Big 12, or any Power Five conference, we have some questions:
Q: Where does the Big 12 decision not to expand leave UConn?
A: In the American Athletic Conference, which includes Temple, East Carolina, Tulane, South Florida, Central Florida, Tulsa, Houston, Southern Methodist, Cincinnati, Memphis and, for football only, Navy.
Q: Why was it important for UConn to leave the AAC and join a so-called Power Five conference?
A: Money. The Big 12, for example, is in the midst of a 13-year, $2.6 billion contract with ESPN and Fox to televise its events. The American is in a seven-year, $126 million agreement. UConn currently gets $10 million a year as part of the breakup of the old Big East, but that will end next year. For UConn to sustain its current annual budget of roughly $70 million, it needs to be in a conference that generates Power Five level revenue.
Q: Why wouldn't the Big 12 expand and add UConn?
A: Big 12 TV contracts call for more money if it adds schools, as much as $25 million per school, and neither ESPN nor Fox want to pay more for teams it doesn't find interesting enough. So it is possible the networks could actually give the Big 12 some lower figure not to expand. If an expansion plan did not include the creation of a Big 12 network, then UConn's biggest asset, the size of the Connecticut market and proximity to New York and Boston, would become a nonfactor.
Q: Does this decision end all hope for UConn joining a Power Five?
A: No, but other possibilities are complicated, and considered less likely. Possible future scenarios could include the Big Ten adding teams, or perhaps luring teams from the Atlantic Coast Conference, which would then need to find replacements. This would be complicated, given the ACC's current agreements. Or Notre Dame, which is independent in football but in the ACC in other sports, could become a full member of that conference, in which case UConn could be considered as a new member to give it an even number of schools.
Q: Why has UConn not gotten into a Power Five conference in the past?
A: There have been many theories, but the most commonly recited reasons are that its football program lacks the tradition, current success level, local recruiting base and fan support to compete in Power Five conferences.
Q: Are there alternatives for UConn?
A: UConn could opt to join a conference such as the new Big East or the Atlantic 10 that is basketball driven, and more Northeast-centered geographically. The new Big East would reunite UConn with several of its old rivals, such as Georgetown and Providence. But other old foes, such as Syracuse, Rutgers and Pitt, are no longer in the somewhat-diluted Big East. In this Big East scenario, UConn's football program could go independent, remain in the AAC or join another midlevel conference.
Q: Why hasn't UConn considered this formula before, or considered dropping football altogether?
A: Playing in the Big East for basketball and dropping football, or going independent, would be short-term improvement for the basketball programs, but in the long run, the major issue – the disparity in revenue between Power Five schools and other conferences – would still remain. UConn would struggle to sustain even a reduced budget.
Q: What can UConn do to prompt the Big 12, the ACC or the Big Ten to consider it down the road?
A: It's hard to say. Continuing success in basketball and other sports, despite the conference issues; improving its attendance and image in football; and continuing to build its academic gravitas could all help. UConn is not in the Association of American Universities, and that is a currently a prerequisite in the Big Ten (although Nebraska is no longer a member of the AAU).
Q: What is the best-case scenario?
A: Membership in the ACC has always been the most desirable, with the conference's strong roster of basketball programs and its East Coast orientation. UConn football could likely have a better chance to be competitive in the ACC than other Power Fives.
Q: What is the worst-case scenario?
A: Continued exclusion from the Power Five, and diminishing budgets, could force UConn to drop football, leaving its 13-year-oldstadium and expensive practice facilities underused, or drop other sports. And it could hurt basketball recruiting, especially men's basketball, and cause the nationally known programs to drop in caliber. |
_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
|
|
Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15734
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/24/16 11:04 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
^^LOL@Nnekalonians!^^
JereMaya 77:76 Fool woman, thou must cover your defensive assignment in the last 30 seconds of all championship games, or suffer the wrath of the Phillistine Reeve. Do not lust after Rings 'n Things that are not yours. <snap>
From the perspective of a fan, The Big 12 is quite okay at the status quo. Yes, it's not "12" teams, but (from a wbb perspective, at least) the geography is mostly logical/doable/NOT forbidding. And the caliber of teams offer a rich program for league play, with lesser teams often able to better themselves with the superior competition they must face.
This is just one perspective, admittedly, but I really hope things don't change all that much, nor all that quickly.
_________________
Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
|
|
summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7828
Location: Shenandoah Valley
Back to top |
| Posted: 10/25/16 2:22 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Howee wrote: |
^^LOL@Nnekalonians!^^
JereMaya 77:76 Fool woman, thou must cover your defensive assignment in the last 30 seconds of all championship games, or suffer the wrath of the Phillistine Reeve. Do not lust after Rings 'n Things that are not yours. <snap>
From the perspective of a fan, The Big 12 is quite okay at the status quo. Yes, it's not "12" teams, but (from a wbb perspective, at least) the geography is mostly logical/doable/NOT forbidding. And the caliber of teams offer a rich program for league play, with lesser teams often able to better themselves with the superior competition they must face.
This is just one perspective, admittedly, but I really hope things don't change all that much, nor all that quickly. |
Yes, and unfortunately your out-migrants screwed up our geography in the SEC. *grumble* You can have TAMU back and and I wish you'd take them. Mizzou, too.
_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
|
|
|
|
