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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
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 Posted: 09/26/16 3:51 pm ::: |
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| mercfan3 wrote: |
Anyway, the problem with Trump's comments is that we would have a president that is objectifying women at a disgusting level. |
Are you objecting to him saying it or thinking it? Most men have opinions about women's bodies, including current and past presidents.
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mercfan3
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tfan
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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| Posted: 09/26/16 4:36 pm ::: |
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| tfan wrote: |
| There is nothing about calling Rosie O'Donnell fat and ugly or saying women can't be tens if they have small breasts that means Trump can't govern. He isn't going to translate those comments into legislation. But Clinton uses those as reasons not to vote for him. |
Couldn't disagree more with the principle of your thought here: Yes, a person who is disgustingly demeaning to people based on physical appearances/gender CAN "govern". See: Adolf Hitler, et. al.
Can this translate into legislation? Well, 'officially' presidents aren't supposed to legislate, but attitudes create atmosphere. For example, Obama's change of heart on gay marriage made a huge difference in expediting that change. In a related example, guess what 'free-thinking' country has made it illegal for lesbians or ANY single women to conceive by artificial means? Oh, yeah....and....if their doctor recommends a clinic in another country that could help them, the DOCTOR can faced up to 15 years in prison.
That would be France. Shit happens. With Trump as president?
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scullyfu
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scullyfu
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| Posted: 09/26/16 4:46 pm ::: |
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| tfan wrote: |
| mercfan3 wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
| mercfan3 wrote: |
Anyway, the problem with Trump's comments is that we would have a president that is objectifying women at a disgusting level. |
Are you objecting to him saying it or thinking it? Most men have opinions about women's bodies, including current and past presidents. |
Saying it.
I mean, it would be nice if we, as a society, could move past objectifying women, and see women as people instead of a collection of body parts. But I recognize we aren't there yet. |
And let's hope we can get to where women don't care about the size of a man's you know what or prefer muscular guys.
| Quote: |
However, I don't want a president taking us backwards. His comments normalize thoughts and behaviors that used to be considered deplorable.  (See alt. Right) |
The comments that Clinton and surrogates run in their ads are mostly from the past. There is no audio of him slamming Carly Fiorina's face, since it was said on his plane (president's don't have to worry about embedded reporters) and is the one comment I think he has made about a women's looks during the campaign. And he made a comment suggesting Megyn Kelly was menstruating. I don't recall any other comments that could be labeled "sexist" since he announced as a candidate. He took heat for both and that is hopefully the end of it. |
at the first repug debate, Megyn Kelly called him on all the names he's called women. he laughed it off saying, 'it was only about Rosie.'
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 09/26/16 6:11 pm ::: |
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| tfan wrote: |
And let's hope we can get to where women don't care about the size of a man's you know what or prefer muscular guys.
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It's not even close to being the same thing. But I'm not going to get into it. If you care, you'll look it up yourself.
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: 09/26/16 6:43 pm ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
| There is nothing about calling Rosie O'Donnell fat and ugly or saying women can't be tens if they have small breasts that means Trump can't govern. He isn't going to translate those comments into legislation. But Clinton uses those as reasons not to vote for him. |
Couldn't disagree more with the principle of your thought here: Yes, a person who is disgustingly demeaning to people based on physical appearances/gender CAN "govern". See: Adolf Hitler, et. al.
Can this translate into legislation? Well, 'officially' presidents aren't supposed to legislate, but attitudes create atmosphere. For example, Obama's change of heart on gay marriage made a huge difference in expediting that change. In a related example, guess what 'free-thinking' country has made it illegal for lesbians or ANY single women to conceive by artificial means? Oh, yeah....and....if their doctor recommends a clinic in another country that could help them, the DOCTOR can faced up to 15 years in prison.
That would be France. Shit happens. With Trump as president? |
You think that because Trump said on a Howard Stern show call in - a show who's topic is nothing but stuff like what Trump commented on - is going to cause him to send Jews to the gas chamber? Or start a World War?
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tfan
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| Posted: 09/26/16 6:46 pm ::: |
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| mercfan3 wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
And let's hope we can get to where women don't care about the size of a man's you know what or prefer muscular guys.
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It's not even close to being the same thing. But I'm not going to get into it. If you care, you'll look it up yourself. |
I can wait until you are ready to discuss it. But I knew after I wrote it that I should have limited it to women preferring muscular guys. And I could have added tall guys and handsome guys.
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 09/26/16 6:48 pm ::: |
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| tfan wrote: |
| mercfan3 wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
And let's hope we can get to where women don't care about the size of a man's you know what or prefer muscular guys.
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It's not even close to being the same thing. But I'm not going to get into it. If you care, you'll look it up yourself. |
I can wait until you are ready to discuss it. But I knew after I wrote it that I should have limited it to women preferring muscular guys. And I could have added tall guys and handsome guys. |
There is a difference between preferences in attraction and objectification.
I'm not saying that men (or women who like women) can't have preferences or find women attractive. I'm saying that women are objectified while men are valued for more than their appearance.
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tfan
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| Posted: 09/26/16 6:50 pm ::: |
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| scullyfu wrote: |
he said nasty things about Rosie O[Donnell during the first Repug debate. he tried to slough it off by saying it was only about Rosie. |
Yeah, you're right, that could be considered (implicitly?) calling Rosie a "fat pig etc." during the during the campaign.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 09/26/16 8:25 pm ::: |
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| Ironically enough, it appears that Trump is the one who is sick. He can't stop snuffling.
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Howee
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mercfan3
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justintyme
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| Posted: 09/26/16 9:53 pm ::: |
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| I'm on hold with Sean Hannity. I'm sure he will clear this Iraq War stuff up.
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 09/26/16 9:56 pm ::: |
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fuck did I just watch?
Trump is a buffoon, and I think Clinton's biggest problem is going to be resisting the temptation to descend to his level.
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 09/26/16 10:05 pm ::: |
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| Queenie wrote: |
fuck did I just watch?
Trump is a buffoon, and I think Clinton's biggest problem is going to be resisting the temptation to descend to his level. |
Girl showed so much restraint tonight..
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justintyme
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| Posted: 09/26/16 10:12 pm ::: |
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"Words matter when you run for president, and they really matter when you are president. And I want to reassure our allies in Japan and South Korea and elsewhere, that we have mutual defense treaties and we will honor them. It is essential that America’s word be good. And so I know that this campaign has caused some questioning and some worries on the part of many leaders across the globe. I’ve talked with a number of them. But I want to — on behalf of myself, and I think on behalf of a majority of the American people — say that our word is good."
Outstanding. That is how it is done, you get a huge dig in against your opponent while keeping thw "presidential" tone alive and not appearing to descend to his level.
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justintyme
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Luuuc
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| Posted: 09/26/16 10:23 pm ::: |
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| That debate felt like a waste of time to me. By that I just mean there seemed to me nothing particularly new or unexpected from either side, so I doubt that it gave anyone a reason to change their mind about who to vote for.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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| Posted: 09/26/16 10:45 pm ::: |
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HERE is a link to 15 online polls as to who won the debate
I checked 14 of them about an hour after the debate ended and Trump was dominating every one -- except that the Slate.com poll was frozen up with too much traffic.
I expected this result for the online polls. I also think my prediction that the TV pundits mainly say Hillary won was also on the mark.
Myself, I thought it was pretty even. Hillary said virtually nothing on policy specifics, spending almost all her time on attacking Trump often personally. That caused Trump to spend excessive time being too defensive, and wasting a lot of time that he could have much better used to go on offense against Hillary on the emails, immigration and the Clinton Foundation.
Trump interrupted Hillary several times. Some were good scores but most were nothingburgers. Lester Holt interrupted and "fact checked" Trump a lot more than he did either to Hillary.
On edit 90 minutes after debate: Trump is beating Clinton on Slate 54% to 46% with about 20,000 votes cast.
Last edited by GlennMacGrady on 09/26/16 11:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Howee
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| Posted: 09/26/16 10:54 pm ::: |
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| Luuuc wrote: |
| That debate felt like a waste of time to me. By that I just mean there seemed to me nothing particularly new or unexpected from either side, so I doubt that it gave anyone a reason to change their mind about who to vote for. |
Mostly true, but given the reportedly high number of "undecided" voters, I think the side-by-side illustration of *temperament* differences might pull more toward her.
I loved his contradiction re: NATO members paying their fair share in honor of their alliance contracts, after she revealed specific cases of HIM not honoring contractual payments to his contractors. And when she revealed his payment of zero Federal taxes, he mumbles, "that's just being smart." 
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| Hillary said virtually nothing on policy specifics |
Huh? She spoke very specifically on tax cut measures, working on infrastructure projects as a source of job creation, race relations and community policing, gun control, diplomatic measures in the Iran negotiations.....etc. I mean, it may not all be 'doable', but she can't be accused of saying "virtually nothing on policy specifics". (what WERE you watching??  )
Re: not being specific, Trump certainly never offered any insights on his solutions regarding global or domestic terrorism. And his allegations of China, etc., abusing us financially were titillating-but-unprovable.
My overall take matched the talking heads pretty much: The first minutes were unexciting and unenlightening, with Trump demonstrating more intellect and composure than one might have expected. After that? (especially after his "Law and Order" baloney), she was the cool, composed one with genuine insights and ideas.
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Last edited by Howee on 09/26/16 11:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 09/26/16 11:05 pm ::: |
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I hope the next moderator actually moderates. Holt got run roughshod over most of the night. I don't care if they use shock collars, cut the mic, bring out the hook, install trap doors- but please, find some way of getting the candidates to shut the goddamn hell up when their turn is done. Bring in Ed Hochuli, or Dick Bavetta, or someone with a steel chair, or something.
If either of them had behaved like this when I was debating, the debate coach would have shit a brick sideways. And we were in junior high school. (Modified Lincoln-Douglas, four to a side.)
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mercfan3
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| Posted: 09/26/16 11:12 pm ::: |
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| Even Fox news said Clinton won.
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GlennMacGrady
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| Posted: 09/26/16 11:16 pm ::: |
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Howee, Clinton did talk some policy but it was all very general and aspirational. She referred viewers to her website several times to see specifics. Trump wasn't much better on specifics.
My point was that Hillary's strategy seemed to be to glide by with memorized generalities on policy, and then mostly to hit Trump with multiple allegations about his business and personal life. I think that was a good strategy because she has no significant policy differences with Obama, and trying to defend Obama's policies is a losing endeavor for her. |
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