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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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Location: Phoenix
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 Posted: 04/12/16 6:45 pm ::: |
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Duke University Athletics Statement on the Womens Basketball Program
The welfare and success of our student-athletes are among Dukes highest priorities. To that end, we are in the process of conducting an evaluation of the Duke womens basketball program. This effort is led by a Duke human resources professional outside the Athletics Department. Coach McCallie is aware of the evaluation and eager to assist. We look forward to hearing the insights of those involved in the program and any recommendations that may result from this evaluation
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dtrain34
Joined: 17 Aug 2010
Posts: 409
Location: Lacey, Washington
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| Posted: 04/12/16 6:53 pm ::: |
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| I know nothing about this situation, but the way Duke ran off Clair Watkins after signing her a few years ago makes it easier for me to believe other unsavory things are at least possible.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
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| Posted: 04/12/16 7:10 pm ::: |
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| Sorry. Never mind. Not worth it. Shouldn't provide food.
Last edited by ArtBest23 on 04/12/16 7:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18031
Location: Queens
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| Posted: 04/12/16 7:16 pm ::: |
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| Keep it civil, guys. Please.
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 7373
Location: Durham, NC
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| Posted: 04/12/16 8:21 pm ::: |
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| Queenie wrote: |
| Keep it civil, guys. Please. |
Please keep in mind that for Duke fans, this isn't some generic conversation. For 9 years, we have had our interest in this team eroded. We have watched the players slump over, lose their joy in playing one after another after another. We've sat with parents who can hardly believe what's happening with their beautiful athletic daughters, bringing folded up printed out emails about hurtful and potentially harmful things happening in practice, demeaning things being said. They talk about how they can help their daughters get through it as if it were some awful hazing they had to endure.
What used to be an exciting time of year full of possibilities and likely Final Four trips has dissolved before our eyes. When people make ignorant statements for the sole purpose of generating some sizzle or assuming this is about players wanting to be coddled, it's offensive.
I used to meet fans of other great teams and get together at tourneys or the FF and talk junk about our teams. It was fun. It was not fun for it to end and die a slow agonizing death. The worst was the total waste of talent and possibility that the young women went through at Duke.
We are not going to tell you what we know happened while an investigation is ongoing. Please show these young women some respect and stop making the same disparaging remarks McCallie has made about "millenials."
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 9628
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| Posted: 04/12/16 8:40 pm ::: |
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By the definition we use in the regular work environment, lots of coaches mistreat their players. These law firms must have lawyers who have not participated in or watched sports their entire lives and label conduct as mistreatment and then have to be told "no, you can scream at players in sports, that's not considered mistreatment". But if things are changing in high school, as ClayK says, then you would expect more situations where coaches are investigated as players encounter a style they are not familiar with.
But some coaches are no doubt much worse than others. You can yell and scream with a "hey, you gotta do better than that!" tone and you can do it with a "you stink you miserable excuse for a basketball player!" tone.
Last edited by tfan on 04/12/16 8:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66922
Location: Where the action is
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| Posted: 04/12/16 8:51 pm ::: |
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| tfan wrote: |
| By the definition we use in the regular work environment, lots of coaches mistreat their players. These law firms must have lawyers who have not participated in or watched sports their entire lives and label conduct as mistreatment and then have to be told "no, you can scream at players in sports, that's not considered mistreatment". But if things are changing in high school, as ClayK says, then you would expect more situations where coaches are investigated as players encounter a style they are not familiar with. |
College sports are not a work environment, or so the NCAA says.
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 16359
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: 04/12/16 8:56 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
| By the definition we use in the regular work environment, lots of coaches mistreat their players. These law firms must have lawyers who have not participated in or watched sports their entire lives and label conduct as mistreatment and then have to be told "no, you can scream at players in sports, that's not considered mistreatment". But if things are changing in high school, as ClayK says, then you would expect more situations where coaches are investigated as players encounter a style they are not familiar with. |
College sports are not a work environment, or so the NCAA says. |
A coach would be more like an adjunct or perhaps a student activities professional - a non-faculty employee who works with students and oversees students. Both of those types of positions certainly have rules of conduct and treatment of students that have to be followed.
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18031
Location: Queens
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| Posted: 04/12/16 10:10 pm ::: |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| Queenie wrote: |
| Keep it civil, guys. Please. |
Please keep in mind that for Duke fans, this isn't some generic conversation. For 9 years, we have had our interest in this team eroded. We have watched the players slump over, lose their joy in playing one after another after another. We've sat with parents who can hardly believe what's happening with their beautiful athletic daughters, bringing folded up printed out emails about hurtful and potentially harmful things happening in practice, demeaning things being said. They talk about how they can help their daughters get through it as if it were some awful hazing they had to endure.
What used to be an exciting time of year full of possibilities and likely Final Four trips has dissolved before our eyes. When people make ignorant statements for the sole purpose of generating some sizzle or assuming this is about players wanting to be coddled, it's offensive.
I used to meet fans of other great teams and get together at tourneys or the FF and talk junk about our teams. It was fun. It was not fun for it to end and die a slow agonizing death. The worst was the total waste of talent and possibility that the young women went through at Duke.
We are not going to tell you what we know happened while an investigation is ongoing. Please show these young women some respect and stop making the same disparaging remarks McCallie has made about "millenials." |
That does not give you the privilege to vent your spleen on other posters. I'm sympathetic to your frustration at McCallie and what Duke has become; I know how intensely one can get attached to college players, and how hurt one can become when things fall apart for them. But other people don't share that subjectivity. Either engage politely or don't engage at all.
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snzuluz
Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 191
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| Posted: 04/13/16 7:45 am ::: |
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most college coaches have NEVER taught on the high school level or even have a teaching degree, so the knowledge in how to understand how high schoolers think, behave, and react is not there...
teaching programs and actual teaching experience have students take psychology classes and other methods classes in how work with and teach their subject AND how to work with kids...
coaching is teaching and teaching is coaching...it's like taking an AP class in high school and an over-load in college...think of playing for John Wooden and all the lessons he taught while he coached! he was a master teacher!
there are lots of coaches who were born to coach and others who were not...the X's and O's are the smallest part of coaching in the 21st century...it's everything else that goes into coaching that is more important now...
Joanne had the same "issues" start to crop up at MSU while she was there!
99% of student complaints or parent complaints are how the head coach is managing the team...if you are not a good manager of people then when you starting loosing or not making expectations, your lack of management style leadership starts to be the focus of those not happy with their time in your program or parents who start complaining...
once an organization or school begins to investigate a program, it is a no win situation for a coach...get out! it doesn't matter if the allegations are true or not, your reputation does not recover fully...again, like a teacher being accused of something by a student, and does not even matter if it is later found out the student lied...that teachers' reputation is tarnished forever in that community...Duke will be looking for a new coach if not for next year, it will be for the following year...
why any coach wants to stay in a program where her/his athletes start to complain and investigations are beginning, is beyond me...except on the college level, many are bought out for BIG $$$$$.
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 12851
Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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| Posted: 04/13/16 8:50 am ::: |
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I have never understood the confusion w/ the spelling of loose and lose.
Loose rhymes w/ and looks like noose.
Fuck it.....just dribble drive w/ your skill set and score the ball.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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Location: Where the action is
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| Posted: 04/13/16 8:56 am ::: |
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| cthskzfn wrote: |
| I have never understood the confusion w/ the spelling of loose and lose. |
You want to stay away from loser women, but not from looser ones...
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I ain't got a home
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 11150
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| Posted: 04/13/16 9:33 am ::: |
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So what are the goals of a college athletic program?
1) Winning. If the goal is winning games, coaching through fear and intimidation and negativity can indeed work over a short span of time. There's no doubt that (some) people can be motivated by screaming at them, embarrassing them, etc., and even physical punishment.
In the '50s, winning was all there was, to a great extent, and there was no discussion of means to that end.
2) Teaching. There are many different ways of teaching, but it all starts with what you are aiming to teach. The subject matter -- whether it be history or English or basketball -- is, for the best teachers I think, a vehicle to teach broader lessons.
At the high school level, it's easier to be a teacher, and focus on lessons about working within a group, accepting roles, understanding leadership, connecting effort and commitment with results, and so on. The great thing about high school sports, as I've said before, is that it's important (at the time, everyone cares a lot) but it doesn't matter (you didn't blow your SAT or a big job interview).
3) A good experience. Did everyone have fun? That's the basis of a good experience, though I would expand that to include learning some things beyond the sport, but basketball is way too hard to play, even for a high school team, for players to have a good experience if they don't have fun.
Obviously, these three don't cover every possibility, nor are they mutually exclusive, but I think it's important for administrators and coaches to be on the same page as to the relative importance of various outcomes.
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 12851
Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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| Posted: 04/13/16 11:18 am ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| cthskzfn wrote: |
| I have never understood the confusion w/ the spelling of loose and lose. |
You want to stay away from loser women, but not from looser ones... |
Well said indeed.
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Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15740
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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| Posted: 04/13/16 11:54 am ::: |
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| snzuluz wrote: |
| ....once an organization or school begins to investigate a program, it is a no win situation for a coach...get out! it doesn't matter if the allegations are true or not, your reputation does not recover fully.....why any coach wants to stay in a program where her/his athletes start to complain and investigations are beginning, is beyond me...except on the college level, many are bought out for BIG $$$$$. |
^^[See: Connie Yori @ Nebraska as Exhibit A]^^
One of the most tragic ironies here: 2 coaches took over at 2 major programs in 2007. Gail G left a powerhouse Duke (politics notwithstanding) to help a struggling, former-great TX recoup their glory days. Her absence was filled by another well-credentialed coach, Coach P, who moved into well-established program with many strengths. One tried valiantly to succeed, BUT: WHEN THE WRITING WAS ON THE WALL THAT SUCCESS WAS ELUDING HER, she resigned in deference to the team's best interest. The other not only experienced a steady decline, but dug her heels in, blaming anything/anyone but herself. Sad.
| pilight wrote: |
| cthskzfn wrote: |
| I have never understood the confusion w/ the spelling of loose and lose. |
You want to stay away from loser women, but not from looser ones... |
I stay away from BOTH, thankyouverymuch. 
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Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
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kool-aide
Joined: 09 Jun 2009
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| Posted: 04/13/16 12:07 pm ::: |
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| readyAIMfire53 & other Duke fans, I hope enough comes to light that White is forced to make a long needed change -- even though he's known & sat on info. I've heard some things, even as a fan of the rival, and I know there's cause. I want us all to be better. And seeing what's happening to players is just bad. Those of you who just think readyAIMfire is spouting off & doesn't know jack about practices, don't be so quick to dismiss their posts.
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terpsforever
Joined: 17 Jul 2011
Posts: 1233
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| Posted: 04/13/16 1:06 pm ::: |
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| What was Lexie Brown thinking...
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 7373
Location: Durham, NC
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| Posted: 04/13/16 4:41 pm ::: |
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| kool-aide wrote: |
| readyAIMfire53 & other Duke fans, I hope enough comes to light that White is forced to make a long needed change -- even though he's known & sat on info. I've heard some things, even as a fan of the rival, and I know there's cause. I want us all to be better. And seeing what's happening to players is just bad. Those of you who just think readyAIMfire is spouting off & doesn't know jack about practices, don't be so quick to dismiss their posts. |
Thank you kool-aide. It's been an awful 9 years. Even worse than we feared when we learned who was hired.
NOTE: 9 years ago our foremost thought was about the playing style of the new coach not being a good match for the players already on the team and about JPM's statements that she did not like recruiting. Obviously she brought in the highest rated recruiting classes ever. But we had NO pre-determined feelings about this coach beyond this. We wanted her to prove our fears to be unjustified (as she did with recruiting). Speaking just for myself, I only made up my mind about her after hearing how she was treating players and then staff.
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Follow your passion and your life will be true down to your core.
~rAf
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/13/16 6:44 pm ::: |
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| kool-aide wrote: |
| readyAIMfire53 & other Duke fans, I hope enough comes to light that White is forced to make a long needed change -- even though he's known & sat on info. I've heard some things, even as a fan of the rival, and I know there's cause. I want us all to be better. And seeing what's happening to players is just bad. Those of you who just think readyAIMfire is spouting off & doesn't know jack about practices, don't be so quick to dismiss their posts. |
...
...
...okay, so a Carolina fan just agreed with Duke fans. Did McCallie literally bite off the head of a small child and throw it at a player while screaming maledictions in the Black Speech?
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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kool-aide
Joined: 09 Jun 2009
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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Howee
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CBiebel
Joined: 23 Dec 2004
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Location: PA
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| Posted: 04/14/16 2:59 pm ::: |
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| kool-aide wrote: |
| readyAIMfire53 & other Duke fans, I hope enough comes to light that White is forced to make a long needed change -- even though he's known & sat on info. I've heard some things, even as a fan of the rival, and I know there's cause. I want us all to be better. And seeing what's happening to players is just bad. Those of you who just think readyAIMfire is spouting off & doesn't know jack about practices, don't be so quick to dismiss their posts. |
Well, from what I've seen of his time at ND, while White is known for "taking care" of his coaches when it comes to making contracts with them, he's not one who likes firing coaches who aren't working out. He and the outgoing ND president Fr. Malloy were the only two out of seven who voted against firing Tyrone Willingham in 2004, despite the poor job he was doing on the field and in recruiting.
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CBiebel
Joined: 23 Dec 2004
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| Posted: 04/14/16 3:09 pm ::: |
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In a way, I think the assistants leaving for lateral coaching positions is kind of more damning. Assistants leaving for better positions is to be expected, but for basically the same job somewhere else?
While abusing players would be worse, some might suggest that the "abuse" is being exaggerated or some players just don't like a "tough love" approach. I'm not saying I personally believe either side of this (I don't know enough about the situation to really judge it one way or the other). I'm just saying that what accounts for "abuse" could be open to debate.
However, in the case of assistant coaches, they're usually more mature and can differentiate between "tough love" to make someone better and actual abuse. So if they're bailing, that doesn't sound good to me.
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