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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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Location: Durham, NC
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 Posted: 01/30/16 11:07 am ::: More attrition at Duke |
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Lauren Rice has been fired from her position as video coordinator for Duke Women's Basketball. Lauren was a member of Duke's first Final Four team in 1999 under Coach G. She has been a very loyal and enthusiastic member of McCallie's staff who kept a strong and positive public face for this team (such as "wheels up" and "wheels down" pics of the team on road trips). Coincidentally, she recently organized a 10 year reunion of the 2006 Final Four team that got thwarted by the winter storm that shut down airports. I am suspicious about the timing. The actual reason given for the firing has not leaked out, though those who are privy to the reason given to Lauren have described it as "juvenile and non-sensical."
Duke fans are outraged and working on an organized protest at the Notre Dame game. Even ardent defenders of the coach are saying this is the last straw. I hope at least one protest sign makes it on air this Monday when Notre Dame comes to town. Given McCallie's history of referring to opposing players by their jersey numbers, if I went to the game (which I haven't done since ND last routed Duke 2 yrs ago) I'd simply list ND jersey #'s and names. And then add Lauren Rice's jersey # and name.
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NoDakSt
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 01/30/16 11:25 am ::: |
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Hot mess!
I wonder if Van Gorp sticks around.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 01/30/16 1:31 pm ::: |
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Seriously? People are getting all upset and protesting because a head coach fired a junior member of her own staff? Seriously?
The anti-McCallie movement has passed from the sublime to the ridiculous.
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NoDakSt
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 01/30/16 1:45 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
Seriously? People are getting all upset and protesting because a head coach fired a junior member of her own staff? Seriously?
The anti-McCallie movement has passed from the sublime to the ridiculous. |
This isn't pooh pooh stuff. Rice was one of those players who was the foundation off Dukes rise to prominence in Goestenkors era. She's been committed to the program, the school, the fanbase well before the fanbase started petering out. Unless she did something totally illegal or contributed to some huge infraction of NCAA policies which may justify termination this is more fuel to the fire.
Art how you can look at the Tenneesse program, a program still ranked in the top 25 and question the program's direction under Holly but then write off concerns about the direction of Duke's program as being the product of fan-led-lynch-mob is beyond me.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 01/30/16 2:17 pm ::: |
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| NoDakSt wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
Seriously? People are getting all upset and protesting because a head coach fired a junior member of her own staff? Seriously?
The anti-McCallie movement has passed from the sublime to the ridiculous. |
This isn't pooh pooh stuff. Rice was one of those players who was the foundation off Dukes rise to prominence in Goestenkors era. She's been committed to the program, the school, the fanbase well before the fanbase started petering out. Unless she did something totally illegal or contributed to some huge infraction of NCAA policies which may justify termination this is more fuel to the fire.
Art how you can look at the Tenneesse program, a program still ranked in the top 25 and question the program's direction under Holly but then write off concerns about the direction of Duke's program as being the product of fan-led-lynch-mob is beyond me. |
I don't have any problem with fans challenging their HC's performance and wanting a change based on that performance, at Duke, Tenn or anywhere else.
When it sinks to the level of feigned outrage over a coach firing her junior assistant copy machine operator, then it's just silly.
It's the HC's staff, she's responsible for the staff and the staff's performance, you can't force her to keep people on her own staff she doesn't want or in whom she has lost trust and then bitch about the HC's performance. If she wants to fire a member of her own staff, that's her own business. She's responsible in the end for producing results.
How do you expect any department head to operate if the people working for her aren't responsible to her and are outside her control? If they can thumb their nose at their boss? It's disfunctional. Organizations can't function that way.
If fans don't like McCallie's performance (and I don't blame them if they don't) then protest her performance. But this is none of the fans' business.
Let's face it. The crusade one poster wages here against McCallie is way over the top. And if you ever read the Duke Basketball Report forum you would get a dramatically different fan perspective. As in most situations, I suspect the bulk of fans are somewhere in the middle.
BTW, I think McCallie is a very unsympathetic jerk and not a great coach. I think her performance is marginal at best. I'd be disattisfied too. But her resume and that of Warlick are hardly comparable. Nor is she failing on the recruiting trail like Warlick.
It's interesting that Warlick, in contrast, seems like a very likeable sympathetic individual. She's just in over her head.
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Durantula
Joined: 30 Mar 2013
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| Posted: 01/30/16 2:44 pm ::: |
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Basically any coaching change Duke made would be criticized by the OP because if you don't like McCallie, you can just say a long time coach who was great for Duke was fired.
What is the baseline for determining whether McCallie can make changes to her staff? Starting a thread about this is odd, this is a national WB forum, when I saw this thread I thought maybe someone transferred, not that a support staff was let go. Many of these support staff positions are entry level jobs and thus sees more turnover. The great thing is if she is great at her position, someone else will hire her. And if working for Coach P is as bad as some make it seem, then look on the bright side, maybe she will be happier working under a different staff.
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FS02
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
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Location: Husky (west coast) Country
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| Posted: 01/30/16 3:13 pm ::: |
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If the firing was unjustified and totally unfair, I can see being mad about it, it's the natural human response. Heck, if the girl behind the counter at my local pharmacy is doing a good job and gets canned for no reason I might be upset--if you're talking about taking away someone's paycheck, you need to have at least one good reason.
I'm guessing the Duke fans think McCallie doesn't have one.
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taropatch
Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 01/30/16 3:51 pm ::: |
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TDD is the home of the "I hate McCallie" faction, DBR represents the opposite faction.
Reading TDD alone is no more a basis for "deciding" anything than just reading the OP's posts.
Here, for example, is a post from DBR:
"Sad as it is to say goodbye to a long-time member of the Duke community, how does the letting go of a video coordinator qualify as "turmoil in the program"? How is this anything but a personnel decision by a boss?
And why do some fans think this sort of thing shouldn't be totally the coach's prerogative? Does anyone really think there should be repercussions for a coach because she doesn't get along with one of her lower staff? If Coach K fired his video coordinator, would anybody even say one word about it? Would any of us even know? "
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 01/30/16 3:59 pm ::: |
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| Strictly in terms of the time within the season, it seems a strange time to fire someone. But I don't know enough either way to comment further.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 01/30/16 4:04 pm ::: |
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| Queenie wrote: |
| Strictly in terms of the time within the season, it seems a strange time to fire someone. But I don't know enough either way to comment further. |
And none of us know what happened to precipitate the firing either. I doubt McCallie just woke up one morning and said to herself "I have a headache; I think I'll fire somebody today."
But in the end, she needs make those decisions and to manage her own staff.
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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Location: Durham, NC
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| Posted: 01/30/16 4:13 pm ::: |
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| Durantula wrote: |
Basically any coaching change Duke made would be criticized by the OP because if you don't like McCallie, you can just say a long time coach who was great for Duke was fired.
What is the baseline for determining whether McCallie can make changes to her staff? Starting a thread about this is odd, this is a national WB forum, when I saw this thread I thought maybe someone transferred, not that a support staff was let go. Many of these support staff positions are entry level jobs and thus sees more turnover. The great thing is if she is great at her position, someone else will hire her. And if working for Coach P is as bad as some make it seem, then look on the bright side, maybe she will be happier working under a different staff. |
Samantha Williams is certainly happier at Louisville! However, she was only in Durham a few years, while Lauren is a Duke graduate (4 years), then returned to Duke to make a home in Durham and pursue a career supporting women's basketball. She has been enthusiastic, loyal and good at her job for years.
We've all had our experience with the contrarian Artbest. You say "black" he's say "white." Then he'll belittle anyone who says "black." He'll pick an argument with a snowman just for fun. Anyone who says anything worth saying is going to get the obligatory belittling response from Artbest.
Some of you don't care. So just move on and let the people who DO care talk about it, k?
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 01/30/16 4:28 pm ::: |
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Somebody with AIM in their name is stirring up stuff with a more resistant and less gullible crowd than you'll find here.
http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?37088-Women-s-Basketball-2016-season/page14
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| Excuse me. But AIM4excellence is only on this board. The board for all who seek to defend this coach to the ends of the earth, no matter what she does, or doesn't do. People here need to stop their obsession with "the other board" and focus on making this one more balanced, allowing warranted criticism instead of attacking anyone who dares criticize such a master coach. You guys seem to have no idea that McCallie is the laughingstock of the entire women's basketball community - because most of you have no connection to the wider women's basketball community. But, defend away. Get your rocks off. |
Only on that board? Alrighty then.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 01/30/16 4:34 pm ::: |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| Durantula wrote: |
Basically any coaching change Duke made would be criticized by the OP because if you don't like McCallie, you can just say a long time coach who was great for Duke was fired.
What is the baseline for determining whether McCallie can make changes to her staff? Starting a thread about this is odd, this is a national WB forum, when I saw this thread I thought maybe someone transferred, not that a support staff was let go. Many of these support staff positions are entry level jobs and thus sees more turnover. The great thing is if she is great at her position, someone else will hire her. And if working for Coach P is as bad as some make it seem, then look on the bright side, maybe she will be happier working under a different staff. |
Samantha Williams is certainly happier at Louisville! However, she was only in Durham a few years, while Lauren is a Duke graduate (4 years), then returned to Duke to make a home in Durham and pursue a career supporting women's basketball. She has been enthusiastic, loyal and good at her job for years.
We've all had our experience with the contrarian Artbest. You say "black" he's say "white." Then he'll belittle anyone who says "black." He'll pick an argument with a snowman just for fun. Anyone who says anything worth saying is going to get the obligatory belittling response from Artbest.
Some of you don't care. So just move on and let the people who DO care talk about it, k? |
You want to throw an issue out there for discussion on a national forum of WBB fans with no axes to grind, then don't whine when people disagree with you. If you want to hold hands and commiserate with the other McCallie haters, then stick to TDD.
I notice you ignore the reality that whether you like McCallie or not, as the HC she has the right and responsibility to choose and manage her own staff. I don't think playing for Duke 16 years ago provides squatters rights to a video job.
Niele Ivey is universally beloved by ND fans, but I'd still defend McGraw's right to replace her if she ever chose to do so. And Ivey's a hell of a lot more significant than a video coordinator.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 01/30/16 4:36 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
Somebody with AIM in their name is stirring up stuff with a more resistant and less gullible crowd than you'll find here.
http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?37088-Women-s-Basketball-2016-season/page14
| Quote: |
| Excuse me. But AIM4excellence is only on this board. The board for all who seek to defend this coach to the ends of the earth, no matter what she does, or doesn't do. People here need to stop their obsession with "the other board" and focus on making this one more balanced, allowing warranted criticism instead of attacking anyone who dares criticize such a master coach. You guys seem to have no idea that McCallie is the laughingstock of the entire women's basketball community - because most of you have no connection to the wider women's basketball community. But, defend away. Get your rocks off. |
Only on that board? Alrighty then. |
You notice someone else called him out there:
"A lot of us know that you post on the "other board" using a different name. Why is that?? Do you have something to hide?? "
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 01/30/16 8:00 pm ::: |
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| Friendly drive-by reminder that personal attacks and riding the dog like a small pony are frowned upon in this establishment.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 01/30/16 9:39 pm ::: |
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| Queenie wrote: |
| Friendly drive-by reminder that personal attacks and riding the dog like a small pony are frowned upon in this establishment. |
but what about the dog peeing on the fire hydrant?
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if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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Location: Durham, NC
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| Posted: 01/31/16 12:57 am ::: |
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| Queenie wrote: |
| Friendly drive-by reminder that personal attacks and riding the dog like a small pony are frowned upon in this establishment. |
Thank you. I notice that some really pick and choose. The many fans discussing whether to bring "fire McCallie" or "we love Lauren" signs to Monday's game was not selected to report on here. Yes, there is one fan board in the back pocket of the administration and one that is independent.
We may never know the facts of this or the many other departures from the Duke staff and team. Players and staff are simply erased from the staff/team list and never mentioned again.
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Fighting Artichoke
Joined: 12 Dec 2012
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| Posted: 01/31/16 10:59 am ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
Somebody with AIM in their name is stirring up stuff with a more resistant and less gullible crowd than you'll find here.
http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?37088-Women-s-Basketball-2016-season/page14
| Quote: |
| Excuse me. But AIM4excellence is only on this board. The board for all who seek to defend this coach to the ends of the earth, no matter what she does, or doesn't do. People here need to stop their obsession with "the other board" and focus on making this one more balanced, allowing warranted criticism instead of attacking anyone who dares criticize such a master coach. You guys seem to have no idea that McCallie is the laughingstock of the entire women's basketball community - because most of you have no connection to the wider women's basketball community. But, defend away. Get your rocks off. |
Only on that board? Alrighty then. |
Shades, if you read that entire thread, you should have noticed that the vast majority of the posters dislike any post that puts Duke in a bad light. There are a few posters who are unsatisfied with her performance, but most only want to trump the success she has had at Duke. Prompted by your link, I read that thread, and the one poster who appeared to firmly but respectfully suggest that Coach P was failing was constantly attacked and ridiculed by Coach P supporters. The reason I wrote "appearing" is that since I started reading the thread and now (2 hours later), many respectful comments doubting Coach P's ability have been removed, presumably by moderators. I don't think that rAF is crazy; it seems that DBR is moderated by fans loyal to Coach P.
For example, this post was deleted (this was the entire post, not a portion of it):
"I'm old enough to remember that Bucky Waters had his defenders. He was and is a fine person. He was a decent basketball coach. However, he wasn't a good match to coach the Duke men's basketball team, especially not at the time he held the job. Any coach as controversial as Waters was or as McCallie is today is a bad match.
Those who want to see McCallie replaced are not small in number. They must exist but I've yet to meet any passionate defender of McCallie who follows Duke women's basketball regularly."
What was wrong with a post like that? Seems more like censorship than the work of moderator removing posts attacking posters, coaches, or players.
So I wouldn't say that the posters on that site are less gullible, but rather that the site is not representative of all Duke's fans' views on Coach P.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 01/31/16 11:13 am ::: |
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| Fighting Artichoke wrote: |
[
So I wouldn't say that the posters on that site are less gullible, but rather that the site is not representative of all Duke's fans' views on Coach P. |
And TDD is the opposite and equally (actually, even more) one sided.
You can count the number of posters saying anything on either site on your fingers. It would redefine the term to call either site "representative" of anything.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 01/31/16 11:21 am ::: |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| Queenie wrote: |
| Friendly drive-by reminder that personal attacks and riding the dog like a small pony are frowned upon in this establishment. |
Thank you. I notice that some really pick and choose. The many fans discussing whether to bring "fire McCallie" or "we love Lauren" signs to Monday's game was not selected to report on here. Yes, there is one fan board in the back pocket of the administration and one that is independent.
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YOU are the ONLY person in this thread who made obnoxious bullshit comments personnally attacking a single poster by name. (Namely me).
But of course you think Queenie was only talking about everyone else. Typical.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 01/31/16 1:55 pm ::: |
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Unless we know why Rice was fired, there's not much substance to any discussion.
Just because she's a long-time Duke person doesn't mean she was good at her job or didn't tell her boss to perform anatomically impossible actions.
And, on the flip side, just because she was fired doesn't mean she did anything wrong.
We don't know ...
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 01/31/16 10:53 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
Unless we know why Rice was fired, there's not much substance to any discussion.
Just because she's a long-time Duke person doesn't mean she was good at her job or didn't tell her boss to perform anatomically impossible actions.
And, on the flip side, just because she was fired doesn't mean she did anything wrong.
We don't know ... |
Don't know if we'll ever know anything. In typical mcCallie fashion, nothing is said and the person is simply removed from the website. However, this has touched a nerve with some who have been defending this coach on everything else. Tags are being printed up for distribution that show support for Lauren Rice. It is well known that Lauren has received consistently high praise and that she has been a loyal employee. For people here, it might seem like a bunch of nothing. For some Duke fans, this is the last straw.
Silly me. I thought women's basketball fans would want to know about a building fan rebellion at a school that used to have an elite program.
And many, many thanks to artichoke (sp?) for reading through that long and very stupid thread with mostly clueless McCallie defenders. One post that got deleted had a guy post that he had "too much of a full life to bother following women's basketball." He's been the most rabid McCallie defender of all! And he proudly does not follow women's basketball. That post was deleted along with a whole bunch of others. They can't have their "best" defender be proud he doesn't even follow the sport!
I'd think it would be beneath posters here to try to bait others. Apparently it's not. Let's stop trying to dig into identities of posters on other boards. I know plenty of people on this board personally and I'd like what I might do elsewhere to stay there. Please respect my privacy.
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Follow your passion and your life will be true down to your core.
~rAf
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