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bullsky
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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 Posted: 01/25/16 11:20 am ::: Is scoring down? |
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I will admit, I've never been a number cruncher but it seems as though scoring might be down? Saw some conversations in game threads, figured I'd consolidate it here.
Sure, some teams (UCONN, Maryland, Notre Dame, Ohio St) are putting up big numbers but some top ranked teams are putting up miserable numbers.
#12 Stanford failed to reach 40 in two games in 2016.
Andy Landers called out the entire SEC a few weeks ago during the 'Whip-around' coverage week, as some SEC teams are flat out struggling to score (LSU, Tennessee, Arkansas).
Is scoring down or are we just seeing some bad performances lately? Have the rule changes affected anything? I know that defense becomes increasingly important in the post season but if some of these teams don't start scoring, I could see some upsets in March!
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colt13
Joined: 25 Sep 2009
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| Posted: 01/25/16 2:02 pm ::: Re: Is scoring down? |
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| bullsky wrote: |
I will admit, I've never been a number cruncher but it seems as though scoring might be down? Saw some conversations in game threads, figured I'd consolidate it here.
Sure, some teams (UCONN, Maryland, Notre Dame, Ohio St) are putting up big numbers but some top ranked teams are putting up miserable numbers.
#12 Stanford failed to reach 40 in two games in 2016.
Andy Landers called out the entire SEC a few weeks ago during the 'Whip-around' coverage week, as some SEC teams are flat out struggling to score (LSU, Tennessee, Arkansas).
Is scoring down or are we just seeing some bad performances lately? Have the rule changes affected anything? I know that defense becomes increasingly important in the post season but if some of these teams don't start scoring, I could see some upsets in March! |
Sacramento State is keeping it up by themselves! I don't really know, as the NCAA stats end with the 2013-14 season. That season they jumped from 62.1-the all-time low, to 67.7. The weird thing about that is that they have been going down steadily before that. In the 80's, every year was between 69-70, the 90's between 70-the first year, and 66-the last. The 00's between 67-also the first year and 63. Then 62 or 63 every year this decade until the 67 in 13-14.
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mzonefan
Joined: 15 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 01/25/16 2:06 pm ::: |
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I think it's up in the B1G. Last season there was one team that averaged over 80 for the season. Right now we have four. I know Michigan's average is up 12 compared to last.
I'll see if I can pull out some stats from WBBstate.com.
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mzonefan
Joined: 15 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 01/25/16 2:12 pm ::: |
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| mzonefan wrote: |
I think it's up in the B1G. Last season there was one team that averaged over 80 for the season. Right now we have four. I know Michigan's average is up 12 compared to last.
I'll see if I can pull out some stats from WBBstate.com. |
The B1G average is up 4 points from last season across the 14 teams. Of course, as they continue to beat up on each other that may drop and get us back to last year's numbers by the end.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 01/25/16 2:44 pm ::: |
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| Seems like it's down in the SEC. Also seems like free throw shooting is way down.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 01/25/16 5:15 pm ::: Re: Is scoring down? |
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| bullsky wrote: |
#12 Stanford failed to reach 40 in two games in 2016.
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Stanford made a grand total of ten baskets for the entire game last night. Yes, you read that right -- TEN TOTAL BASKETS.
Now, it's one thing when the worst team in the conference like Colorado goes over 13 minutes without scoring a point vs Cal. It's pathetic, but that's why they're in last place.
But when a conference contender and the #16 ranked team in the country scores only ten baskets in a game, that is stunning. 20% shooting from the floor, 11% from the arc. 17 turnovers, 10 baskets.
Then there was the classic between UGA and MissSt in which UGA led 17-14 at the half last week. But at least those two settled down and played somewhat better in the second half.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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bacabuck
Joined: 28 May 2009
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| Posted: 01/25/16 7:56 pm ::: |
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What I have seen is several teams using a slow down strategy by using the entire shot clock on every possession...........Rutgers did a pretty good job of it against my buckeyes Sunday. They ended our streak of 80 points, or more, in 11 straight games. We won 67-58 but it was still a pretty good tactic.
The trouble is that when both teams do it in the same game, it gets deadly dull, and I don't think it is much fun for the players either.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 01/25/16 8:02 pm ::: |
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| My gut feeling is that scoring is down a little
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 01/26/16 11:24 am ::: |
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When the emphasis is on recruiting athleticism rather than skill, defense will most likely predominate.
And since athleticism erases skill, for the most part, scoring would be expected to decline if athleticism is the highest priority.
And to mount my hobby horse again, the youth system is predicated on winning at all levels (driven by parents), and the best way to win is to let athletes dominate by defending and getting to the rim. Perimeter shooting does not win games at the lower levels, and since winning is more important than skill development in the eyes of parents, then I don't see much changing in the future.
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Durantula
Joined: 30 Mar 2013
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| Posted: 01/26/16 11:50 am ::: |
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| Shouldn't the change from the 1 and 1 to an automatic 2 free throws each quarter once a team has 5 team fouls increase the scoring a little?
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 01/26/16 1:11 pm ::: |
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| Durantula wrote: |
| Shouldn't the change from the 1 and 1 to an automatic 2 free throws each quarter once a team has 5 team fouls increase the scoring a little? |
depends on how many fouls are called and how adept the free throw shooters are at actually making free throws.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 01/26/16 1:21 pm ::: |
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| Durantula wrote: |
| Shouldn't the change from the 1 and 1 to an automatic 2 free throws each quarter once a team has 5 team fouls increase the scoring a little? |
I think it's worked the opposite way. Teams are not intentionally fouling as often, so scores are down.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 01/26/16 1:31 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
When the emphasis is on recruiting athleticism rather than skill, defense will most likely predominate.
And since athleticism erases skill, for the most part, scoring would be expected to decline if athleticism is the highest priority.
And to mount my hobby horse again, the youth system is predicated on winning at all levels (driven by parents), and the best way to win is to let athletes dominate by defending and getting to the rim. Perimeter shooting does not win games at the lower levels, and since winning is more important than skill development in the eyes of parents, then I don't see much changing in the future. |
I posted in another thread that I think of your AAU comments every time I see Cooper play for Tenn. She's the poster child for an AAU athlete.
And the ultimate manifestation of that was her ridiculous length-of-the-court layup drive last night when there was not nearly enough time left on the clock for such a play. She never even picked up her head to look to advance the ball with a pass to another shooter. I think that's referred to as "low basketball IQ."
But, then again, Tenn has always prioritzed athleticism over basketball skill in its recruiting. Pat won a lot of games for many years by having the best athletes.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 01/26/16 3:07 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
When the emphasis is on recruiting athleticism rather than skill, defense will most likely predominate.
And since athleticism erases skill, for the most part, scoring would be expected to decline if athleticism is the highest priority.
And to mount my hobby horse again, the youth system is predicated on winning at all levels (driven by parents), and the best way to win is to let athletes dominate by defending and getting to the rim. Perimeter shooting does not win games at the lower levels, and since winning is more important than skill development in the eyes of parents, then I don't see much changing in the future. |
I posted in another thread that I think of your AAU comments every time I see Cooper play for Tenn. She's the poster child for an AAU athlete.
And the ultimate manifestation of that was her ridiculous length-of-the-court layup drive last night when there was not nearly enough time left on the clock for such a play. She never even picked up her head to look to advance the ball with a pass to another shooter. I think that's referred to as "low basketball IQ."
But, then again, Tenn has always prioritzed athleticism over basketball skill in its recruiting. Pat won a lot of games for many years by having the best athletes. |
Since you wouldn't say anything nice about UT even if it killed you, I choose to disregard your remark, looking instead at Doris (or Beth's, can hardly tell them apart) somewhat more charitable comment that Te'a has not yet internalized her clock, which is probable for a freshman. She is still prone to freshman jitters, something I have noticed already, and was not the best choice to hand the ball to at that point.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 01/26/16 5:09 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
When the emphasis is on recruiting athleticism rather than skill, defense will most likely predominate.
And since athleticism erases skill, for the most part, scoring would be expected to decline if athleticism is the highest priority.
And to mount my hobby horse again, the youth system is predicated on winning at all levels (driven by parents), and the best way to win is to let athletes dominate by defending and getting to the rim. Perimeter shooting does not win games at the lower levels, and since winning is more important than skill development in the eyes of parents, then I don't see much changing in the future. |
I posted in another thread that I think of your AAU comments every time I see Cooper play for Tenn. She's the poster child for an AAU athlete.
And the ultimate manifestation of that was her ridiculous length-of-the-court layup drive last night when there was not nearly enough time left on the clock for such a play. She never even picked up her head to look to advance the ball with a pass to another shooter. I think that's referred to as "low basketball IQ."
But, then again, Tenn has always prioritzed athleticism over basketball skill in its recruiting. Pat won a lot of games for many years by having the best athletes. |
Since you wouldn't say anything nice about UT even if it killed you, I choose to disregard your remark, looking instead at Doris (or Beth's, can hardly tell them apart) somewhat more charitable comment that Te'a has not yet internalized her clock, which is probable for a freshman. She is still prone to freshman jitters, something I have noticed already, and was not the best choice to hand the ball to at that point. |
Well you're correct in one respect. Making any excuse for Cooper's final play is pure charity.
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mzonefan
Joined: 15 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 01/29/16 9:08 am ::: |
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The NCAA says scoring is up, but it's so incremental it's barely worth noting unless you watch one of the Bigs.
https://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/women-s-basketball-rules-changes-reaping-benefits
"Through games played Jan. 24, statistics are bearing out a positive change. Points, field goals, 3-point field goals, steals, blocks, assists and possessions are all showing improvement compared to 2014-15 end-of-season statistics. Specifically, points per team are up slightly from 64.80 points per game to 65.03. Free throw attempts are down 1.30 per team, per game. And teams are combining to have an additional 1.2 possessions per game, with games taking an average of 1:48 to play, versus 1:49 last season."
...
"Certain conferences have experienced larger scoring increases than others. Take, for example, the Big Ten Conference, which has experienced an offensive explosion this season with teams in the league averaging an increase of 9.98 points per team, per game, compared to endof-season statistics from 2014-15. Scoring in the Big 12 Conference has seen an increase of 5.54 points per team, per game, while the Pac-12 Conference schools are scoring 4.37 more points."
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Matt5762
Joined: 27 Feb 2005
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| Posted: 01/29/16 4:24 pm ::: |
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| mzonefan wrote: |
The NCAA says scoring is up, but it's so incremental it's barely worth noting unless you watch one of the Bigs.
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Their stats are pretty misleading.
They imply scoring in the SEC is up by 5 ppg, when in reality it is basically flat (~ +0.5 from last season) in league games...and the overall number will continue to drop as the season progresses because these teams score far less in conference games than against the cupcakes that make up most of their non-league schedules.
Conversely for the smaller conference teams, many of them probably score far more in conference games than when they were off collecting paychecks during non-conference play.
By the end of the season, I doubt if these changes have made any discernable impact whatsoever as far as scoring is concerned...
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 01/29/16 4:34 pm ::: |
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| I don't crunch numbers so well, but switching to the quarter system definitely makes scoring look lower when you look at a box score. I'm thinking of Vandy at Fordham specifically: 27-14 was the score at half... but now you can see that the second quarter split was 6-3. You see a lot more single digits in the box.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 01/29/16 10:32 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
When the emphasis is on recruiting athleticism rather than skill, defense will most likely predominate.
And since athleticism erases skill, for the most part, scoring would be expected to decline if athleticism is the highest priority.
And to mount my hobby horse again, the youth system is predicated on winning at all levels (driven by parents), and the best way to win is to let athletes dominate by defending and getting to the rim. Perimeter shooting does not win games at the lower levels, and since winning is more important than skill development in the eyes of parents, then I don't see much changing in the future. |
I posted in another thread that I think of your AAU comments every time I see Cooper play for Tenn. She's the poster child for an AAU athlete.
And the ultimate manifestation of that was her ridiculous length-of-the-court layup drive last night when there was not nearly enough time left on the clock for such a play. She never even picked up her head to look to advance the ball with a pass to another shooter. I think that's referred to as "low basketball IQ."
But, then again, Tenn has always prioritzed athleticism over basketball skill in its recruiting. Pat won a lot of games for many years by having the best athletes. |
Since you wouldn't say anything nice about UT even if it killed you, I choose to disregard your remark, looking instead at Doris (or Beth's, can hardly tell them apart) somewhat more charitable comment that Te'a has not yet internalized her clock, which is probable for a freshman. She is still prone to freshman jitters, something I have noticed already, and was not the best choice to hand the ball to at that point. |
Well you're correct in one respect. Making any excuse for Cooper's final play is pure charity. |
Well, at least Skylar Diggins, a fellow Domer, is more charitable than you. This crossed my Twitter feed tonight:
"Cooper for Tennessee WBB is GOOD. Gonna be fun to watch her over the course of her career."
Of course that was after last night's game, in which she was pretty darn good.
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It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 01/30/16 4:00 pm ::: |
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| Do I have to put you two in separate corners?
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Lots of dribbling and going nowhere for the guards. Then Lili heaves up a bad shot. Sad. And if someone didn't recognize before how much Orrange contributed, now they should she that she was the glue...and they don't seem to have it this year.