| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
snichols
Joined: 24 Mar 2010
Posts: 89
Back to top |
 Posted: 12/17/15 5:12 pm ::: |
Reply  |
|
I watched the game on TV, since I couldn't make it down for the game this time. I was amazed at how fluid the Stanford offense looked, in a game where they weren't hitting any three pointers. I haven't seen the Stanford offense look that fluid since they were running the triangle with bunch of future WNBAers on the court, like the Ogwumikes, Jayne Appel, Kayla Pederson, and Jeannette Pohlen. This bunch doesn't have that level of talent, so I don't think it was the Stanford offense that suddenly took a leap, I think it was the Tennesse defense.
Tennessee has never been known for a great offensive system, but they used to play tough defense and rebound. Despite being a clearly more athletic team, and with more size inside, they were outrebounded, and except for a period in the 4th quarter, their defense didn't give Stanford much problem, not even when they pressed. Stanford penetrated at will, the passing lanes were wide open, and Tennessee fouled them rather than play defense.
Maybe it's the new uniforms, but I didn't recognize that Tennessee team. I've seen the Lady Vols play bad games before, but I'm not sure I've ever seen them play defense that badly.
|
|
Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012
Posts: 2539
Back to top |
| Posted: 12/17/15 5:13 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| myrtle wrote: |
It does seem pretty obvious that there are chemistry issues...my guess is cliques, but really don't know anything for sure. However, Holly wouldn't be the first coach to have to deal with this kind of problem. There was clearly a problem between DD and teammates at UNC, so one wonders if that hasn't carried over - new team, similar result. Regardless, we know Pat wouldn't have put up with any nonsense so ultimately it comes back to how the coach deals with it. They have a lot of talent and potential so somehow it could all come together - winning definitely helps chemistry issues while losing exacerbates them.
I thought it interesting BTW that McCall said (according to Peck last night) that she wanted to become more of a leader like Deshields! (this after playing together at the University games) |
If so really bad choice! Seems to me that McCall is immature in her game and her comments the "now we are eating candy" comment after the win, stupid IMO.
|
|
snichols
Joined: 24 Mar 2010
Posts: 89
Back to top |
| Posted: 12/17/15 7:29 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Nixtreefan wrote: |
| If so really bad choice! Seems to me that McCall is immature in her game and her comments the "now we are eating candy" comment after the win, stupid IMO. |
There was a bigger context to that comment. She said that after the Santa Clara loss, they had a bad taste in their mouth, but now "we are eating candy."
|
|
cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 12851
Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
Back to top |
| Posted: 12/17/15 9:53 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| I think the combo of HW and DD is a recipe for overall team underachievement.
_________________
Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
|
|
Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012
Posts: 2539
Back to top |
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
| Posted: 12/18/15 4:49 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| cthskzfn wrote: |
| I think the combo of HW and DD is a recipe for overall team underachievement. |
I think this is a bad fit style wise for DeShields. She was much freer to do what she does best in the UNC roll-'em-out-and-let-'em-play streetball style. I know it's hard to see an offensive "system" at Tenn, but there is one, and it's much more restrictive. It's really not a great fit.
DD seemed to step out and take charge during the first 15 minutes or so vs Stanford. I'm wondering if she got told to cut out the freelancing, because she seemed to pretty much vanish the last 25 minutes or so. You can tell she's still able to play, she just looks like she's not sure what she is supposed to be doing and is afraid to do what she did as a freshman that earned her all the accolades.
Oh, and Russell may be the worst #1 recruit in recent memory. No moves, no footwork, no hands, frequently completely out of position to make a play, and very soft and passive.
She needs some serious coaching and to be benched if she ever roams more than 5 feet from the basket or ever trys to put the ball on the floor until she gets the message of where she is supposed to play.
|
|
FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 3516
Back to top |
| Posted: 12/18/15 8:46 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
DD seemed to step out and take charge during the first 15 minutes or so vs Stanford. I'm wondering if she got told to cut out the freelancing, because she seemed to pretty much vanish the last 25 minutes or so. You can tell she's still able to play, she just looks like she's not sure what she is supposed to be doing and is afraid to do what she did as a freshman that earned her all the accolades.
Oh, and Russell may be the worst #1 recruit in recent memory. No moves, no footwork, no hands, frequently completely out of position to make a play, and very soft and passive.
She needs some serious coaching and to be benched if she ever roams more than 5 feet from the basket or ever trys to put the ball on the floor until she gets the message of where she is supposed to play. |
This pretty much describes the whole team.
I think Russell is probably coachable, although I'm not so sure about DD. Either way, I don't think the Tenn coaching staff is up to the task.
|
|
dtbtbtb
Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 122
Back to top |
| Posted: 12/20/15 1:59 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Russell was very good playing for team USA during the summer so IMO she does have potential but she is on the wrong team as it does not look that she'll reach that in TN
|
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
| Posted: 12/20/15 2:31 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| dtbtbtb wrote: |
| Russell was very good playing for team USA during the summer so IMO she does have potential but she is on the wrong team as it does not look that she'll reach that in TN |
I thought she was soft and passive during the summer too and wastes her time wandering around 30 feet from the basket. She was just bigger than everyone else and was facing weak oposition.
|
|
WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 12539
Location: Dallas , Texas
Back to top |
|
Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18031
Location: Queens
Back to top |
|
WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 12539
Location: Dallas , Texas
Back to top |
| Posted: 12/21/15 9:59 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| Im going to leave the board. Theres no freedom to speak or spell incorrectly here without being criticized. Some people just want to talk basketball and others just want to feel empowered. Im out ✌
_________________
3-Time WNBA Champion-3-Time National Champion-4-Time Olympic Champion....And Yes DT "We Got Confeti" lol
|
|
Phil
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 1274
Back to top |
|
PlayBally'all
Joined: 17 Oct 2013
Posts: 271
Back to top |
| Posted: 12/22/15 11:06 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| summertime blues wrote: |
| And anyway, Heartless Dave doesn't give two whoops about women's sports. I doubt if he even gives one. |
That is the ABSOLUTE TRUTH!!!
|
|
PlayBally'all
Joined: 17 Oct 2013
Posts: 271
Back to top |
| Posted: 12/22/15 11:10 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| zvyn3 wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| zvyn3 wrote: |
| I don't see how anyone can possibly defend her after this. But there are always some people who will blame everything but her. |
I think you know how they can. She learned everything she knows from Pat. She's running Pat's system from 20 years ago. Writing Holly off requires admitting that Pat's system doesn't work any more. Are Tenn fans ready to admit that? |
I sure as fuck am. But as long as Dave Hart is the athletic director, Holly will still be here. And we'll be a perennial NIT team or worse. |
She has been to two Elite 8s and a Sweet 16, not to mention winning the SEC twice.
|
|
myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 32336
Back to top |
| Posted: 12/22/15 6:30 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| PlayBally'all wrote: |
| zvyn3 wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| zvyn3 wrote: |
| I don't see how anyone can possibly defend her after this. But there are always some people who will blame everything but her. |
I think you know how they can. She learned everything she knows from Pat. She's running Pat's system from 20 years ago. Writing Holly off requires admitting that Pat's system doesn't work any more. Are Tenn fans ready to admit that? |
I sure as fuck am. But as long as Dave Hart is the athletic director, Holly will still be here. And we'll be a perennial NIT team or worse. |
She has been to two Elite 8s and a Sweet 16, not to mention winning the SEC twice. |
But I think the point is valid. Pat did her thing by getting the most athletic players and using their athleticism to beat other 'system' or 'skill' teams, creating a lot of offense from pressure defense...amd most of her players didn't need to shoot all that well. (this is a broad statement of course, since she always had one or two pretty skilled players mixed in). Now there is much more parity in terms of athleticism so there needs to be a real offensive scheme and less reliance on pressure defense to beat the best teams. JMO.
|
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/08/16 2:33 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
This press conference last night would seem relevant to this discussion.
Essentially Holly is saying she's lost her team and they are paying no attention to her. For example:
"That was not our game plan. They're on their own agenda. I'm telling them to drive, they're shooting threes." and
"Ask them. I'm saying one thing and they're doing another."
That's basically the consistent theme of her comments.
So is she willing to sit some players until they play the way she wants them to play, or is this the WBB version of Varsity Blues?
Either way, this has the potential to get worse before it gets better.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/cUdEiQpGZU4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
|
|
Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63782
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/08/16 2:57 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Quote: |
| "You can't blame Holly [Warlick]. She was telling the guards to penetrate over and over again. I don't know if it was the zone, or not wanting to. I don't know what it was, but we died by the three pointer tonight. We played inside out at Missouri. We played inside out at Oregon State and we won. I think we have to hang our hats on that." |
-- Andraya Carter
I didn't realize Shimmy Gray-Miller was the acting head coach for Florida in this game. I really liked her at Nebraska. Any thoughts of her being a head coach somewhere?
_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
|
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/08/16 3:03 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
So what do you think Auriemma or McGraw or Walz or Mulkey or VanDerveer would do if particular players basically thumbed their noses at their instructions?
My guess is they would not play another second of the game, regardless of who they were.
Every one of them would say "You play my way, or you don't play. End of discussion."
|
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/08/16 3:11 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Shades wrote: |
I didn't realize Shimmy Gray-Miller was the acting head coach for Florida in this game. I really liked her at Nebraska. Any thoughts of her being a head coach somewhere? |
She was HC at SLU for seven years before going to NU. Never had a winning record. Finished 71-136.
Now maybe she's learned a lot since, but I doubt she's on a lot of AD's short lists.
|
|
Oldfandepot2
Joined: 05 Jul 2013
Posts: 996
Location: Northeast
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/09/16 12:37 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| I've been saying that Warlick needs to be given a fair shot. Well, she's had that, and she's given us teams that are a hot mess. It's time to move on. |
If you want things to change, find an AD who is not hostile to women's sports.
_________________
Cave Canem!
We must listen to each other no matter how much it hurts. Bishop Desmond Tutu.
|
|
summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7848
Location: Shenandoah Valley
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/09/16 12:44 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| Oldfandepot2 wrote: |
| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| I've been saying that Warlick needs to be given a fair shot. Well, she's had that, and she's given us teams that are a hot mess. It's time to move on. |
If you want things to change, find an AD who is not hostile to women's sports. |
Exactly. And that's not going to happen with the current clowns in charge.
_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
|
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/09/16 10:07 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| Oldfandepot2 wrote: |
If you want things to change, find an AD who is not hostile to women's sports. |
And the evidence for this "hostility" is
1) following a perfectly rationale recommendation of the school's consultants to unite the entire athletic program under a single brand, and
2) following Pat's choice and hiring her hand picked successor?
Can you imagine the riot that would have ensued if he'd done a full proper search and gone ouside the "family" to hire a proper coach to replace Pat? I expect his position regarding the cult is "you got your own choice, live with it."
He likely also knows both that hiring anyone but Tyler now to replace Holly would cause another uproar and that Tyler is totally unqualified. Indeed, Holly still has considerable support. I'm not surprised he's avoiding that mess.
I fail to see how either of these manifest "hostility". The guy is a well regarded professional. I suspect this "hostility" is largely mythology.
It's interesting that he made exactly the hire the Pat Cult wanted him to make but now that supposedly reflects "hostility." Firing Holly would be proof of "hostility." Keeping her is proof of "hostility." Going out and hiring a real coach would be proof of "hostility."
I wouldn't touch it either if I was in his shoes.
|
|
summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7848
Location: Shenandoah Valley
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/09/16 10:46 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Oldfandepot2 wrote: |
If you want things to change, find an AD who is not hostile to women's sports. |
And the evidence for this "hostility" is
1) following a perfectly rationale recommendation of the school's consultants to unite the entire athletic program under a single brand, and
2) following Pat's choice and hiring her hand picked successor?
Can you imagine the riot that would have ensued if he'd done a full proper search and gone ouside the "family" to hire a proper coach to replace Pat? I expect his position regarding the cult is "you got your own choice, live with it."
He likely also knows both that hiring anyone but Tyler now to replace Holly would cause another uproar and that Tyler is totally unqualified. Indeed, Holly still has considerable support. I'm not surprised he's avoiding that mess.
I fail to see how either of these manifest "hostility". The guy is a well regarded professional. I suspect this "hostility" is largely mythology.
It's interesting that he made exactly the hire the Pat Cult wanted him to make but now that supposedly reflects "hostility." Firing Holly would be proof of "hostility." Keeping her is proof of "hostility." Going out and hiring a real coach would be proof of "hostility."
I wouldn't touch it either if I was in his shoes. |
Of course you are ignoring his entire previous record, but that's par for the course.
And just FYI, the Lady Vols have had more, and more serious, and longer lasting injuries since Jenny Moshak and her crew were fired. Put that in your hat and wear it.
_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
|
|
ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 11151
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/09/16 11:02 am ::: |
Reply |
|
It does seem that Dave Hart doesn't care for women's sports that much, but it's hard to say whether that's just a business decision or some ingrained bias against female athletes.
You certainly can argue that consolidating the athletic department (I don't know of any other Power 5 team that splits by gender) and focusing the branding were motivated by business decisions. But that doesn't mean Hart is a supporter of women's athletics either.
Still, he's going to have to do something with Warlick, it looks like, but it's an interesting dilemma. If he fires her and eats the contract, then he could be criticized for completing the demolition of the Lady Vol empire and losing money on a bad contract that he signed. If he doesn't fire her, he could be criticized for not caring about women's sports and being more concerned with the bottom line than a quality program.
_________________
Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
|
|
|
|
