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pilight
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GlennMacGrady
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Shades
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 Posted: 04/06/16 5:46 pm ::: |
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WAS ends up at #8 despite making the Final Four. They're the only Final Four team slighted.
Baylor at #4. WAS may have been slighted, but I don't mind that ranking.
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patsweetpat
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| Posted: 04/06/16 7:15 pm ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| So are we all agreed that this post-tournament poll reflects the best "reality" of the relative strengths of the 2015-16 D1 WCBB teams? |
I, myself, have a couple of quibbles, but what's the point, even?
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Fighting Artichoke
Joined: 12 Dec 2012
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| Posted: 04/06/16 8:21 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
WAS ends up at #8 despite making the Final Four. They're the only Final Four team slighted.
Baylor at #4. WAS may have been slighted, but I don't mind that ranking. |
I don't think that Washington was slighted at all. They had 11 losses this season. A great run to the FF does not erase all those losses. How can you have a 2-loss South Carolina, Baylor, or ND below them?
And Syracuse at #2? I understand they made the NC game, but they had 8 losses this season. If the poll is supposed to represent the whole season's work, how are they above Notre Dame, who beat them twice this season (by 28 and 11) and lost only 2 games all season?
None of this upsets me but it seems unsettling.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 04/07/16 10:02 am ::: |
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There are two ways, basically, to rank teams:
1) Who would be the favorite if they played tonight?
2) Who has the better body of work over the entire season, up to tonight?
I prefer 2), but many prefer 1). They are, however, apples and oranges.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 04/07/16 1:03 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
There are two ways, basically, to rank teams:
1) Who would be the favorite if they played tonight?
2) Who has the better body of work over the entire season, up to tonight?
I prefer 2), but many prefer 1). They are, however, apples and oranges. |
Even by measure #1, I think it is extremely unlikely that Syracuse and Ore St would be favored in Vegas over several teams below them if they played today. So some of these choices flunk either test.
It seems to represent an inconsistent and inexplicable amalgamation of simply following the tournament results or ranking based on normal mid season ranking judgments. I can't find a consistent logic for when they did one vs when they did the other. It's just a mess.
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myrtle
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| Posted: 04/07/16 3:22 pm ::: |
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| For me, Notre Dame would still be #2. It's inexplicable why/how Stanford won that game but it shows that on any particular night, just about anything can happen. Still I think ND would win 4 games out of five in that matchup...and just about any other. SC might win 2 against them, but I can't think anyone else would except UConn who is in a league of their own.
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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012
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| Posted: 04/07/16 3:29 pm ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| For me, Notre Dame would still be #2. It's inexplicable why/how Stanford won that game but it shows that on any particular night, just about anything can happen. Still I think ND would win 4 games out of five in that matchup...and just about any other. SC might win 2 against them, but I can't think anyone else would except UConn who is in a league of their own. |
C'mon, Stanford exposed ND. ND was weak defensively and Stanford is capable of playing that way, just rewatch last years Uconn game and the OSU game where they beat OSU 76 to 54! What they cannot seem to do is be consistent (I know, understatement of the year).
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ArtBest23
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ArtBest23
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| Posted: 04/07/16 3:46 pm ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| For me, Notre Dame would still be #2. It's inexplicable why/how Stanford won that game but it shows that on any particular night, just about anything can happen. Still I think ND would win 4 games out of five in that matchup...and just about any other. SC might win 2 against them, but I can't think anyone else would except UConn who is in a league of their own. |
They won because they shot 10% higher than their season average, 20% higher than their 3pt average, and McCall had her career game. Oh, and as ND was about to take the lead, Stanford preserved its lead with a blind baseball throw bank shot three as the clock expired. That helped too.
It's called an upset.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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| Posted: 04/08/16 2:52 am ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
There are two ways, basically, to rank teams:
1) Who would be the favorite if they played tonight?
2) Who has the better body of work over the entire season, up to tonight?
I prefer 2), but many prefer 1). |
Is this a Zen koan or something Hindu?
How would one determine (1) other than by an opinion on (2)?
And the problem with (2) is the ambiguity and multiple possible interpretations of the word "better". The question is whether the post-tournament coaches poll is now the best available interpretation. |
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 04/08/16 10:27 am ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
There are two ways, basically, to rank teams:
1) Who would be the favorite if they played tonight?
2) Who has the better body of work over the entire season, up to tonight?
I prefer 2), but many prefer 1). |
Is this a Zen koan or something Hindu?
How would one determine (1) other than by an opinion on (2)?
And the problem with (2) is the ambiguity and multiple possible interpretations of the word "better". The question is whether the post-tournament coaches poll is now the best available interpretation. |
The biggest difference between 1) and 2) is usually injuries. In high school this year, when Chaminade (which finished No. 9) had Leaonna Odom (going to Duke), they might have been one of the top two or three teams in the country. She missed nine games, though, and they lost three games during that span. But she was healthy at season's end ... so you could argue Chaminade was No. 2, or you could argue that the four losses (one bad one) should have dropped them further.
And it's also true that no team, at any level, plays to its fullest potential all season long. Some teams are at their peak in December; others in January; and others in March. There are a lot of possible reasons, from team chemistry to illness (a flu that runs through a roster can lead to some unexpected losses) to outside stress on top players to coaches finally figuring out precisely what this team does best.
Syracuse is a pretty good example of playing well at season's end, and Cal is a pretty good example of playing well early.
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 04/08/16 9:21 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| myrtle wrote: |
| For me, Notre Dame would still be #2. It's inexplicable why/how Stanford won that game but it shows that on any particular night, just about anything can happen. Still I think ND would win 4 games out of five in that matchup...and just about any other. SC might win 2 against them, but I can't think anyone else would except UConn who is in a league of their own. |
They won because they shot 10% higher than their season average, 20% higher than their 3pt average, and McCall had her career game. Oh, and as ND was about to take the lead, Stanford preserved its lead with a blind baseball throw bank shot three as the clock expired. That helped too.
It's called an upset. |
Didn't Notre Dame get to the Final last year on a "look what I found" putback in the final seconds?
IMO Notre Dame was a worn out team at the end of this season due to a lack of size and fatigue among their freshmen and it showed in the Stanford game. Rankings all season are a snapshot of how teams are perceived "right now" and there's nothing wrong with judging the teams in those terms at the end.
Last edited by linkster on 04/08/16 9:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 04/08/16 9:24 pm ::: |
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| linkster wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| myrtle wrote: |
| For me, Notre Dame would still be #2. It's inexplicable why/how Stanford won that game but it shows that on any particular night, just about anything can happen. Still I think ND would win 4 games out of five in that matchup...and just about any other. SC might win 2 against them, but I can't think anyone else would except UConn who is in a league of their own. |
They won because they shot 10% higher than their season average, 20% higher than their 3pt average, and McCall had her career game. Oh, and as ND was about to take the lead, Stanford preserved its lead with a blind baseball throw bank shot three as the clock expired. That helped too.
It's called an upset. |
Didn't Notre Dame get to the FF last year on a "look what I found" putback in the final seconds?
IMO Notre Dame was a worn out team at the end of this season due to a lack of size and fatigue among their freshmen and it showed in the Stanford game. Rankings all season are a snapshot of how teams are perceived "right now" and there's nothing wrong with judging the teams in those terms at the end. |
Everyone's entitled to an opinion, no matter how wrong it might be.
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linkster
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