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pilight
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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 Posted: 11/02/15 10:20 am ::: |
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Creme seems to have no insight into the Pac-12. Stanford lost a ton to graduation, Oregon State was incredibly lucky in the injury department, and Arizona State has by far the best preseason outlook.
That said, of course these early rankings are pretty meaningless, but the lack of in-depth analysis by a national writer who gets paid a good salary to keep up is a little depressing.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
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| Posted: 11/02/15 10:53 am ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
Creme seems to have no insight into the Pac-12. Stanford lost a ton to graduation, Oregon State was incredibly lucky in the injury department, and Arizona State has by far the best preseason outlook.
That said, of course these early rankings are pretty meaningless, but the lack of in-depth analysis by a national writer who gets paid a good salary to keep up is a little depressing. |
Creme is ok at running Lunardi's computer model to predict the NCAA bracket next February or so (which is actually how he got his job). I've never thought he knew or understood much about WBB, especially at this time of year. It always appears heavily based on name recognition. He never seems to understand the impact of roster losses and additions.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7842
Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 11/02/15 11:07 am ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
Creme seems to have no insight into the Pac-12. Stanford lost a ton to graduation, Oregon State was incredibly lucky in the injury department, and Arizona State has by far the best preseason outlook.
That said, of course these early rankings are pretty meaningless, but the lack of in-depth analysis by a national writer who gets paid a good salary to keep up is a little depressing. |
Creme is ok at running Lunardi's computer model to predict the NCAA bracket next February or so (which is actually how he got his job). I've never thought he knew or understood much about WBB, especially at this time of year. It always appears heavily based on name recognition. He never seems to understand the impact of roster losses and additions. |
Creme is running Lunacy's computer model to predict the NCAA bracket next February or so. There, fixed it for you.
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FollowtheCardinalRule
Joined: 12 Oct 2011
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Location: Denver
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| Posted: 11/02/15 12:19 pm ::: |
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| Stanford loses Orrange and Samuelson and is still ranked above the Longhorns. Okay, then. Creme, I'll have some of what you're smoking.
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Shmermerer1
Joined: 04 Aug 2014
Posts: 284
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| Posted: 11/02/15 1:01 pm ::: |
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| FollowtheCardinalRule wrote: |
| Stanford loses Orrange and Samuelson and is still ranked above the Longhorns. Okay, then. Creme, I'll have some of what you're smoking. |
There are a lot of iffy teams on the list. Oklahoma to me is unjustified. Princeton lost their best player to graduation. George Washington needs someone other than Jonquel Jones to step up. Rutgers lost two big seniors to graduation. Holliday is a fouling machine. There are a lot of teams in this preseason ranking that will be upset a few times. Teams on this list had cupcake schedules last year and will be playing tougher competition this year. ASU will not be as good this year either. JMO.
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FollowtheCardinalRule
Joined: 12 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 11/02/15 1:13 pm ::: |
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| Shmermerer1 wrote: |
| FollowtheCardinalRule wrote: |
| Stanford loses Orrange and Samuelson and is still ranked above the Longhorns. Okay, then. Creme, I'll have some of what you're smoking. |
There are a lot of iffy teams on the list. Oklahoma to me is unjustified. Princeton lost their best player to graduation. George Washington needs someone other than Jonquel Jones to step up. Rutgers lost two big seniors to graduation. Holliday is a fouling machine. There are a lot of teams in this preseason ranking that will be upset a few times. Teams on this list had cupcake schedules last year and will be playing tougher competition this year. ASU will not be as good this year either. JMO. |
Princeton is a difficult one, yes, Blake was brilliant--but Princeton also had a lot of balance on a team that only had ONE loss last season. This is a team that crushed everyone last year. Their closest game was a 7 point victory over American, and everyone else they beat by Double Digits. So, I think that there's enough left in the cupboard to make a great run this year---with Annie T. and Michelle Miller returning.
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Shmermerer1
Joined: 04 Aug 2014
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| Posted: 11/02/15 1:27 pm ::: |
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| FollowtheCardinalRule wrote: |
| Shmermerer1 wrote: |
| FollowtheCardinalRule wrote: |
| Stanford loses Orrange and Samuelson and is still ranked above the Longhorns. Okay, then. Creme, I'll have some of what you're smoking. |
There are a lot of iffy teams on the list. Oklahoma to me is unjustified. Princeton lost their best player to graduation. George Washington needs someone other than Jonquel Jones to step up. Rutgers lost two big seniors to graduation. Holliday is a fouling machine. There are a lot of teams in this preseason ranking that will be upset a few times. Teams on this list had cupcake schedules last year and will be playing tougher competition this year. ASU will not be as good this year either. JMO. |
Princeton is a difficult one, yes, Blake was brilliant--but Princeton also had a lot of balance on a team that only had ONE loss last season. This is a team that crushed everyone last year. Their closest game was a 7 point victory over American, and everyone else they beat by Double Digits. So, I think that there's enough left in the cupboard to make a great run this year---with Annie T. and Michelle Miller returning. |
While I agree they had balanced scoring last year, I think the some of the teams they are playing this year will be better. Seton Hall will be tough, Michigan is going to be better than last year, Pitt got better and better last year and I believe they didn't lose much from last years team, they won't be athletic enough to beat theOSU, Marist is always solid, Dayton lost their two best players; however, they have a ton of talent on the team that will have the chance to play more minutes. Also, Penn is a solid Ivy team that I could see having one upset. JMO though.
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 11/02/15 3:05 pm ::: |
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tOSU will likely drop in the polls early in the season due to their brutal schedule. They play UConn, S Carol & Notre Dame in the first 4 weeks.
But they are my FF sleeper team. If Tenn is to be considered a FF team then tOSU also should. Tenn's future is on the shoulders of their 2 redshirt sophomores, DeShields and Russell. If you compare their freshman stats against those of Mitchell and Hart you see:
GUARDS:
Mitchell - 24.9 pt/gm 42%fg 38% 3pt
DeShields - 18.0 pt/gm 43%fg 28% 3pt
POSTS:
Russell - 6.3 pt/gm 60%fg 5 rb/gm
Hart - 12.2 pt/gm 63%fg 9 rb/gm
Add to that the fact that Mitchell has Alston, a proven senior guard who averaged 20 pts/gm last year playing along side her while DeShields has 3 guards who only managed to average 18 pt/gm as a threesome (Carter, Reynolds & Middleton).
Now it's true that Tenn made it to the E8 last year while tOSU bowed out in the second round, but they both lost lost to Maryland, tOSU by 2 points and the LV's by 10 points.
If one considers that DeShields may be limited all season by her patella tendonitis and Russell's feet haven't been tested by a full season of practice and games, I'd say that Ohio St is the better bet to make it to the FF.
So why is it that Tenn is considered the better team?
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Shmermerer1
Joined: 04 Aug 2014
Posts: 284
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| Posted: 11/02/15 3:33 pm ::: |
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| linkster wrote: |
tOSU will likely drop in the polls early in the season due to their brutal schedule. They play UConn, S Carol & Notre Dame in the first 4 weeks.
But they are my FF sleeper team. If Tenn is to be considered a FF team then tOSU also should. Tenn's future is on the shoulders of their 2 redshirt sophomores, DeShields and Russell. If you compare their freshman stats against those of Mitchell and Hart you see:
GUARDS:
Mitchell - 24.9 pt/gm 42%fg 38% 3pt
DeShields - 18.0 pt/gm 43%fg 28% 3pt
POSTS:
Russell - 6.3 pt/gm 60%fg 5 rb/gm
Hart - 12.2 pt/gm 63%fg 9 rb/gm
Add to that the fact that Mitchell has Alston, a proven senior guard who averaged 20 pts/gm last year playing along side her while DeShields has 3 guards who only managed to average 18 pt/gm as a threesome (Carter, Reynolds & Middleton).
Now it's true that Tenn made it to the E8 last year while tOSU bowed out in the second round, but they both lost lost to Maryland, tOSU by 2 points and the LV's by 10 points.
If one considers that DeShields may be limited all season by her patella tendonitis and Russell's feet haven't been tested by a full season of practice and games, I'd say that Ohio St is the better bet to make it to the FF.
So why is it that Tenn is considered the better team? |
I completely agree with you Link. TheOSU has all the components to be a final 4 team. They were amazing at the end of last year and had almost no one off the bench. Alston and Mitchell had to play almost 40 mpg and still had extremely impressive numbers and fg percentages.
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dtsnms
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 18815
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| Posted: 11/02/15 3:38 pm ::: |
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| Shmermerer1 wrote: |
| linkster wrote: |
tOSU will likely drop in the polls early in the season due to their brutal schedule. They play UConn, S Carol & Notre Dame in the first 4 weeks.
But they are my FF sleeper team. If Tenn is to be considered a FF team then tOSU also should. Tenn's future is on the shoulders of their 2 redshirt sophomores, DeShields and Russell. If you compare their freshman stats against those of Mitchell and Hart you see:
GUARDS:
Mitchell - 24.9 pt/gm 42%fg 38% 3pt
DeShields - 18.0 pt/gm 43%fg 28% 3pt
POSTS:
Russell - 6.3 pt/gm 60%fg 5 rb/gm
Hart - 12.2 pt/gm 63%fg 9 rb/gm
Add to that the fact that Mitchell has Alston, a proven senior guard who averaged 20 pts/gm last year playing along side her while DeShields has 3 guards who only managed to average 18 pt/gm as a threesome (Carter, Reynolds & Middleton).
Now it's true that Tenn made it to the E8 last year while tOSU bowed out in the second round, but they both lost lost to Maryland, tOSU by 2 points and the LV's by 10 points.
If one considers that DeShields may be limited all season by her patella tendonitis and Russell's feet haven't been tested by a full season of practice and games, I'd say that Ohio St is the better bet to make it to the FF.
So why is it that Tenn is considered the better team? |
I completely agree with you Link. TheOSU has all the components to be a final 4 team. They were amazing at the end of last year and had almost no one off the bench. Alston and Mitchell had to play almost 40 mpg and still had extremely impressive numbers and fg percentages. |
Two more come over to the dark side...I've been saying since end of last year tOSU is at least an elite eight team this year with all the returns.
What confuses me about some of the comments is don't people believe returning players improve?
Take Stanford for example, yes they lost Orrange and Samuelson, but McCall was pretty darn impressive playing for USA basketball this summer, and Thompson was improved last season from the year before.
So why shouldn't they be better this year? That's just an example, I'm not saying they are the beast in the west this year, but just my thought.
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Shmermerer1
Joined: 04 Aug 2014
Posts: 284
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| Posted: 11/02/15 4:21 pm ::: |
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| dtsnms wrote: |
| Shmermerer1 wrote: |
| linkster wrote: |
tOSU will likely drop in the polls early in the season due to their brutal schedule. They play UConn, S Carol & Notre Dame in the first 4 weeks.
But they are my FF sleeper team. If Tenn is to be considered a FF team then tOSU also should. Tenn's future is on the shoulders of their 2 redshirt sophomores, DeShields and Russell. If you compare their freshman stats against those of Mitchell and Hart you see:
GUARDS:
Mitchell - 24.9 pt/gm 42%fg 38% 3pt
DeShields - 18.0 pt/gm 43%fg 28% 3pt
POSTS:
Russell - 6.3 pt/gm 60%fg 5 rb/gm
Hart - 12.2 pt/gm 63%fg 9 rb/gm
Add to that the fact that Mitchell has Alston, a proven senior guard who averaged 20 pts/gm last year playing along side her while DeShields has 3 guards who only managed to average 18 pt/gm as a threesome (Carter, Reynolds & Middleton).
Now it's true that Tenn made it to the E8 last year while tOSU bowed out in the second round, but they both lost lost to Maryland, tOSU by 2 points and the LV's by 10 points.
If one considers that DeShields may be limited all season by her patella tendonitis and Russell's feet haven't been tested by a full season of practice and games, I'd say that Ohio St is the better bet to make it to the FF.
So why is it that Tenn is considered the better team? |
I completely agree with you Link. TheOSU has all the components to be a final 4 team. They were amazing at the end of last year and had almost no one off the bench. Alston and Mitchell had to play almost 40 mpg and still had extremely impressive numbers and fg percentages. |
Two more come over to the dark side...I've been saying since end of last year tOSU is at least an elite eight team this year with all the returns.
What confuses me about some of the comments is don't people believe returning players improve?
Take Stanford for example, yes they lost Orrange and Samuelson, but McCall was pretty darn impressive playing for USA basketball this summer, and Thompson was improved last season from the year before.
So why shouldn't they be better this year? That's just an example, I'm not saying they are the beast in the west this year, but just my thought. |
McCall had a great summer, but she generally does with USA bball from what I recall. It may just be a system thing. Also, I don't think Thompson was better last year. She may have scored more points due to the new guard oriented system, but she wasn't very efficient.
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Shmermerer1
Joined: 04 Aug 2014
Posts: 284
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| Posted: 11/02/15 4:22 pm ::: |
Reply |
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| dtsnms wrote: |
| Shmermerer1 wrote: |
| linkster wrote: |
tOSU will likely drop in the polls early in the season due to their brutal schedule. They play UConn, S Carol & Notre Dame in the first 4 weeks.
But they are my FF sleeper team. If Tenn is to be considered a FF team then tOSU also should. Tenn's future is on the shoulders of their 2 redshirt sophomores, DeShields and Russell. If you compare their freshman stats against those of Mitchell and Hart you see:
GUARDS:
Mitchell - 24.9 pt/gm 42%fg 38% 3pt
DeShields - 18.0 pt/gm 43%fg 28% 3pt
POSTS:
Russell - 6.3 pt/gm 60%fg 5 rb/gm
Hart - 12.2 pt/gm 63%fg 9 rb/gm
Add to that the fact that Mitchell has Alston, a proven senior guard who averaged 20 pts/gm last year playing along side her while DeShields has 3 guards who only managed to average 18 pt/gm as a threesome (Carter, Reynolds & Middleton).
Now it's true that Tenn made it to the E8 last year while tOSU bowed out in the second round, but they both lost lost to Maryland, tOSU by 2 points and the LV's by 10 points.
If one considers that DeShields may be limited all season by her patella tendonitis and Russell's feet haven't been tested by a full season of practice and games, I'd say that Ohio St is the better bet to make it to the FF.
So why is it that Tenn is considered the better team? |
I completely agree with you Link. TheOSU has all the components to be a final 4 team. They were amazing at the end of last year and had almost no one off the bench. Alston and Mitchell had to play almost 40 mpg and still had extremely impressive numbers and fg percentages. |
Two more come over to the dark side...I've been saying since end of last year tOSU is at least an elite eight team this year with all the returns.
What confuses me about some of the comments is don't people believe returning players improve?
Take Stanford for example, yes they lost Orrange and Samuelson, but McCall was pretty darn impressive playing for USA basketball this summer, and Thompson was improved last season from the year before.
So why shouldn't they be better this year? That's just an example, I'm not saying they are the beast in the west this year, but just my thought. |
McCall had a great summer, but she generally does with USA bball from what I recall. It may just be a system thing. Also, I don't think Thompson was better last year. She may have scored more points due to the new guard oriented system, but she wasn't very efficient.
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Oldfandepot2
Joined: 05 Jul 2013
Posts: 996
Location: Northeast
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| Posted: 11/02/15 5:24 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
Creme seems to have no insight into the Pac-12. Stanford lost a ton to graduation, Oregon State was incredibly lucky in the injury department, and Arizona State has by far the best preseason outlook.
That said, of course these early rankings are pretty meaningless, but the lack of in-depth analysis by a national writer who gets paid a good salary to keep up is a little depressing. |
Charlie wrote the analysis for each team but the rankings were voted on by Michelle Voepel, Michelle Smith, Graham Hayes, Rebecca Lobo,and Charlie. I also thought it was just Charlie until it was pointed out to me.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 11148
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| Posted: 11/02/15 5:26 pm ::: |
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Stanford could well win the Pac-12 -- but that doesn't mean the Cardinal should be ranked above ASU, which has a much stronger resume at this point.
And again, Oregon State managed 255 out of 256 player-games from its top eight last year. Not only did that keep the talent on the floor, it breeds tremendous continuity and familiarity.
If Stanford has that kind of injury luck this year, and Oregon State regresses to the mean, it would be no surprise if Stanford finished ahead of the Beavers.
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calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 5155
Location: Carson City
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| Posted: 11/02/15 5:32 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
Creme seems to have no insight into the Pac-12. Stanford lost a ton to graduation, Oregon State was incredibly lucky in the injury department, and Arizona State has by far the best preseason outlook.
That said, of course these early rankings are pretty meaningless, but the lack of in-depth analysis by a national writer who gets paid a good salary to keep up is a little depressing. |
The truth is that the Pac 12 is a crapshoot this season. Oregon St and Arizona St have the best returning teams, but neither team is particularly athletic. Indeed, more power to Charlie Turner Thorne, but I don't believe she has a top 50 recruit on the squad. UCLA has scary good talent but have to show they can be consistent. I also have questions about coach Cori Close. Stanford has some question marks but given their track record it is hard to pick against them. I wouldn't have them as high as 14, but they are still a top 25 team. And then there's Cal. If they can solve the point guard question and stay away from injuries they are also a top 25 team. Add in a significant contribution from Chen Yue (which I suspect is still a year away) and they could be very good.
I wouldn't be shocked if any of those five wind up conference champions, and I suspect both Washington and Oregon can at least pick up an upset victory or two. This should be a great Pac 12 season.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 11/02/15 9:31 pm ::: |
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His disrespect for Ohio St and significant overrating of Maryland and Tenn discredits his ranking.
Ohio St has back everyone of consequence, Mitchell and Hart are legitimate All American candidates, and the addition of Holland and especially Cooper and Waterman up front, makes them a very legitimate final four team.
Last year they lacked size and depth. Those problems are largely solved.
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bucks4now
Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Posts: 723
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| Posted: 11/02/15 9:57 pm ::: |
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This is the first time I have been excited for the start of the season for about ten years. Whether you hate or love Jim Foster he made a statement that is very true in my opinion. "A players improves the most between her freshman and sophomore years" Hart improves so much as the season when along last year, I can't wait to see what she does this year. Depth is an added bonus this year for us.
I'm not going to say that OSU will beat any of the teams from the FF last year. I would be happen for them to be competitive against them. It will be a good measuring stick and should help Kevin recruit in the future. The best what to play the best so it should help.
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bacabuck
Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 245
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| Posted: 11/02/15 10:43 pm ::: |
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Well, we get #'s 3 and 1 in November. 5 in December...... and 4 on January second, so we will see if we belong.
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joetro
Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 334
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| Posted: 11/03/15 3:06 pm ::: |
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| I'll believe ND as lower than 2 when I see it. For the last five years, it basically hasn't been the case at the end of the season, despite what Creme and ESPN have always ranked at the beginning.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012
Posts: 2539
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| Posted: 11/04/15 1:37 pm ::: |
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I don't know why anyone would underestimate ND, they seem to be there every year and everyone always says they shouldn't be. It's a coach thing people. Just like Stanford, they can put the best game plan into place to beat anyone if they have the time to do it. The problem recently is that some of the players are not too quick on the up take so they can go form beating Uconn to having a bad loss (partially as the line up was all over the place for half of the season). Don't forget they lost to WA with Chiney who had a lousy game and beat UCLA with Chiney who had a lousy game. It's not always the coaches or players, shit happens.
There are some coaches however who don't seem to be able to put together a scouting report and have their players stick to it. Those are the ones I would have a hard time giving a high ranking to. UNC is silly considering whats going on there. Even with their so called stud class they underachieved, just like UCLA, and then lost just about every player from that class.
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18371
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: 11/04/15 2:10 pm ::: |
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| Nixtreefan wrote: |
| Even with their so called stud class they underachieved, just like UCLA, and then lost just about every player from that class. |
Not to defend UNC, but that stud class of four players made the Elite Eight as freshmen. How is that underachieving?
Then DeShields transferred after one year.
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FollowtheCardinalRule
Joined: 12 Oct 2011
Posts: 5153
Location: Denver
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| Posted: 11/04/15 2:58 pm ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| Nixtreefan wrote: |
| Even with their so called stud class they underachieved, just like UCLA, and then lost just about every player from that class. |
Not to defend UNC, but that stud class of four players made the Elite Eight as freshmen. How is that underachieving?
Then DeShields transferred after one year. |
Well, if you consider how much they led Stanford by in that Elite 8 game, then we could mention their underachievement, but that was a darn good North Carolina Squad with a great destiny that didn't quite go as planned.
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