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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18371 Location: Phoenix
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Posted: 08/17/15 1:03 pm ::: |
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By statute, the NLRA does not apply to public bodies and governmental entities. This means that the National Labor Relations Board would not have jurisdiction over state-run colleges and universities, which constitute 108 of the 125 FBS teams.
For the other 17 schools, the NLRB held that the NCAA and respective conference bodies maintain substantial control over these individual teams, so the Board asserting jurisdiction over a single team would not promote stability in labor relations across the league.
From a practical standpoint, bargaining would be a mess, for each individual school.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 08/17/15 1:13 pm ::: |
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CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
By statute, the NLRA does not apply to public bodies and governmental entities. This means that the National Labor Relations Board would not have jurisdiction over state-run colleges and universities, which constitute 108 of the 125 FBS teams.
For the other 17 schools, the NLRB held that the NCAA and respective conference bodies maintain substantial control over these individual teams, so the Board asserting jurisdiction over a single team would not promote stability in labor relations across the league.
From a practical standpoint, bargaining would be a mess, for each individual school. |
The impact certainly is not limited to 17 schools. That may be all the private FBS football schools, but there are hundreds of scholarship offering private schools in basketball and other sports, all of which have the same issues, as do the majority of private FCS football schools offering scholarships (most or all of which also play Div I basketball).
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calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009 Posts: 5155 Location: Carson City
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Posted: 08/19/15 3:14 pm ::: |
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The overriding issue is whether or not students should be considered employees in any number of situations. Whether as athletes or interns, students are often being exploited. providing services for which others are making money. The laws and regulations, plainly read, would require this classification, but the disruption would be so great that we need to tread carefully.
I would suggest that Congress is the appropriate place to decide the issue but I know better.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 8230 Location: Heisenberg
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Posted: 08/20/15 9:35 am ::: |
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A common sense result couched in terms of jurisdiction so as to minimize public controversy on the more substantive aspects of the entire issue. |
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bekcat1
Joined: 24 Feb 2011 Posts: 874 Location: The ATL
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Posted: 08/20/15 9:48 pm ::: |
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calbearman76 wrote: |
The overriding issue is whether or not students should be considered employees in any number of situations. Whether as athletes or interns, students are often being exploited. providing services for which others are making money. The laws and regulations, plainly read, would require this classification, but the disruption would be so great that we need to tread carefully.
I would suggest that Congress is the appropriate place to decide the issue but I know better. |
WRT Congress, possibly. The root of the issue is the LOI each player signs. It's a contract. The player gets a free education (or largely subsidized) in return for their services as an athlete. If the contract isn't fair, find some way to get it changed. Or don't sign it.
Do I think the athletes should be compensated better? Yes, to a degree. But the contract (i.e. LOI) has to be changed. Somebody has to convince the NCAA to change it and I suppose Congress might be one avenue. Going through the courts is another way (although going the unionization route might not have been the most logical way to go).
Of course we are assuming that Congress is a body that actually does something other than make a lot of noise.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11151
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Posted: 08/21/15 10:46 am ::: |
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It would be nice if the incoming athletes had some say in the structure of the LOI and their rights and obligations. As it is, it's a one-way street with the NCAA -- which is hardly noted for its competency, fairness or above-board approach to issues -- calling all the shots.
How about this: A conference is convened with representatives from the NCAA, former college athletes, present college athletes and parents of high school athletes to discuss the issues. The goal of the conference would be to produce a document outlining the rights and responsibilities of the NCAA and the student-athletes.
Presumably media coverage would help shine a light on the nature of the college athletic industry, and its relationship to many, if not most, of its personal producers.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 08/21/15 3:05 pm ::: |
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The NCAA did not write, does not control, and is not responsible for the content of the LOI.
Besides the LOI was intended primarily to control the competitive relationship among the individual schools and to stop poaching. That's why the whole LOI system came into being. It wasn't written to be about the athletes. Controlling the conduct of the schools vis--vis each other with respect to chasing athletes obviously effects the athletes, but that's the way it goes.
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bekcat1
Joined: 24 Feb 2011 Posts: 874 Location: The ATL
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Posted: 08/21/15 4:53 pm ::: |
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ArtBest23 wrote: |
The NCAA did not write, does not control, and is not responsible for the content of the LOI.
Besides the LOI was intended primarily to control the competitive relationship among the individual schools and to stop poaching. That's why the whole LOI system came into being. It wasn't written to be about the athletes. Controlling the conduct of the schools vis--vis each other with respect to chasing athletes obviously effects the athletes, but that's the way it goes. |
Art, I'm not asking this to be combative, I'm just curious. If the NCAA doesn't write, control, and otherwise isn't responsible for LOIs, who is?
Ultimately, it doesn't matter if they do or they don't, it's a universal contract, right? It's basically the same document no matter the sport, the school, or whether it's Division 1 or Division 3, is that correct? Even if the NCAA didn't write or control the LOI, they certainly sanction it.
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bekcat1
Joined: 24 Feb 2011 Posts: 874 Location: The ATL
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Posted: 08/21/15 5:01 pm ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
It would be nice if the incoming athletes had some say in the structure of the LOI and their rights and obligations. As it is, it's a one-way street with the NCAA -- which is hardly noted for its competency, fairness or above-board approach to issues -- calling all the shots.
How about this: A conference is convened with representatives from the NCAA, former college athletes, present college athletes and parents of high school athletes to discuss the issues. The goal of the conference would be to produce a document outlining the rights and responsibilities of the NCAA and the student-athletes.
Presumably media coverage would help shine a light on the nature of the college athletic industry, and its relationship to many, if not most, of its personal producers. |
I love your idea of a conference to address a more equitable LOI. I would also add coaches from D1, D2, and D3 as well, as they have a lot of skin in the game. The LOIs should vary by sport (as long as it abides by Title IX), and maybe even vary between D1-D3. Maybe put in provisions that give financial aid (or stipends) based on a percentage of how much tuition is per year up to a certain percentage (say, just as an example, up to 15% of tuition, based on both instate or out-of-state based on where the athletes are from...if tuition is $40,000/year, then the stipend would be $6000/year based on my example of 15%).
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011 Posts: 2819 Location: Indiana
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Posted: 08/21/15 6:07 pm ::: |
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http://www.nationalletter.org/
"The NCAA manages the daily operations of the NLI program while the Division I Collegiate Commissioners Association provides governance oversight."
Also, Division 3 schools do not offer athletic scholarships so they are not members of the NLI program.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 8230 Location: Heisenberg
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Posted: 08/22/15 12:03 am ::: |
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bekcat1 wrote: |
calbearman76 wrote: |
The overriding issue is whether or not students should be considered employees in any number of situations. Whether as athletes or interns, students are often being exploited. providing services for which others are making money. The laws and regulations, plainly read, would require this classification, but the disruption would be so great that we need to tread carefully.
I would suggest that Congress is the appropriate place to decide the issue but I know better. |
The root of the issue is the LOI each player signs. It's a contract. |
What do you mean by this?
The NLI is a one year contract. The student-athlete commits to completing one year of academic course work, the school commits to a scholarship for one year, and all the other schools in the NLI network commit to stop recruiting the student-athlete once the NLI is signed.
Once the student-athlete completes the academic year, the NLI is effectively over. After that, the student-athlete is free to stay at or leave the school (subject to NCAA and conference transfer rules) and the school is free to renew the scholarship or not, which they almost universally do.
What does this have to do with unionization? |
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 08/22/15 2:26 pm ::: |
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purduefanatic wrote: |
http://www.nationalletter.org/
"The NCAA manages the daily operations of the NLI program while the Division I Collegiate Commissioners Association provides governance oversight."
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Correct.
The NCAA performs some eligibiity and other admin chores. The NCAA didn't write and has no control over the terms of the LOI.
It's only the past few years that the LOI consortium farmed out any functions to the NCAA. The SEC used to handle the admin tasks.
And there are a few Div III members.
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