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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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 Posted: 08/29/15 2:15 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
The metrics make it pretty clear: Don't worry about midrange jumpers because it's very hard -- especially in the women's game -- for a team to shoot them well enough to beat you.
If you protect the rim, you force teams to beat you with threes, all else being equal, and if a team only has one or two three-point shooters, it opens up two vulnerabilities: 1) the defense can focus on those two; and 2) if one or both is cold and/or hurt, the offense will stall.
The elite teams can often overwhelm inferior teams with size, athleticism and talent, but once the competition is more evenly matched, then it's critical to be able to stretch the floor. |
I'm not conviced it's entirely due to good or over packed interior defenses. I think there are very few coaches in WCBB proven capable of teaching interior players how to move in order to get open to receive the ball in good scoring position or of designing plays to help their interior players get open in good scoring position. And I think there are few point guards able to effectively feed the ball inside because most of the highly rated pgs got their plaudits not by passing but by hogging the ball, taking half of their HS team's shots, and putting up gaudy point totals.
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LegoMyEggo
Joined: 02 Apr 2010
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| Posted: 08/30/15 9:23 am ::: |
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| It's borderline stunning how many kids come out of high school not knowing how to throw a post-entry pass.
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bballjunkie
Joined: 12 Aug 2014
Posts: 785
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| Posted: 08/30/15 10:16 am ::: |
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| I would say at least 95% are unable to make those passes. Passing and shooting are lost skills or should I say accurate passing and making shots as there are many who throw bad passes and throw up bad shots. Just as many who think they can handle the ball and go nowhere with it. Then you have little understanding of how to use a screen or reading the defender.... Could go on and on but the next few years of HS players are much worse than those who have gone before, so enjoy!
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 08/30/15 10:43 am ::: |
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| bballjunkie wrote: |
| I would say at least 95% are unable to make those passes. Passing and shooting are lost skills or should I say accurate passing and making shots as there are many who throw bad passes and throw up bad shots. Just as many who think they can handle the ball and go nowhere with it. Then you have little understanding of how to use a screen or reading the defender.... Could go on and on but the next few years of HS players are much worse than those who have gone before, so enjoy! |
It's a triple whammy.
The bigs don't know how to get open in good scoring position. When they do get the ball, they're not in position to score so they take a bad shot, put the ball on the floor and have it taken away, or pass back out to the perimeter where it started, typically with no advantage gained.
There aren't any well-designed plays to help them get open.
And on the rare occassion they do get open in scoring position, the pg isn't looking for them, doesn't see them, or can't make the necessary pass.
How many college coaches out there show signs of being able to teach any of these skills?
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 08/30/15 12:26 pm ::: |
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Young elite guards can get to the rim at will, and do so because parents want to win. There's no need to feed the post if the guard can get a layup on her own.
The advent of DDM and moving the post to the weakside block -- which really opens up the offense and creates tremendous offensive rebounding for the post on the weakside block -- also minimizes the importance of post moves.
And to beat my other favorite hobby horse, girls don't play pickup so they don't put in hours on the playground learning to make decisions and make different kinds of passes under pressure. Girls go to practice, go to clinics or play in structured games, and it's much harder for ballhandlers to develop in those situations.
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LegoMyEggo
Joined: 02 Apr 2010
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| Posted: 08/30/15 12:46 pm ::: |
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| If you're a fan of old school post play, Brionna Jones is fun to watch. She does a tremendous job sealing and finishing. She's been remarkable to watch since high school. There are other posts that are bigger, more athletic, more skilled, etc., but Jones does a lot with what she has.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 08/30/15 1:47 pm ::: |
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| LegoMyEggo wrote: |
| If you're a fan of old school post play, Brionna Jones is fun to watch. She does a tremendous job sealing and finishing. She's been remarkable to watch since high school. There are other posts that are bigger, more athletic, more skilled, etc., but Jones does a lot with what she has. |
She certainly is. And she knows how to get open in position. And she is grossly underutilized and MD's guards and coaching exhibits all the shortcomings discussed above.
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LegoMyEggo
Joined: 02 Apr 2010
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| Posted: 08/30/15 1:49 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| LegoMyEggo wrote: |
| If you're a fan of old school post play, Brionna Jones is fun to watch. She does a tremendous job sealing and finishing. She's been remarkable to watch since high school. There are other posts that are bigger, more athletic, more skilled, etc., but Jones does a lot with what she has. |
She certainly is. And she knows how to get open in position. And she is grossly underutilized and MD's guards and coaching exhibits all the shortcomings discussed above. |
Funny! I disagree. She's done very well for herself.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 08/30/15 2:20 pm ::: |
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| LegoMyEggo wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| LegoMyEggo wrote: |
| If you're a fan of old school post play, Brionna Jones is fun to watch. She does a tremendous job sealing and finishing. She's been remarkable to watch since high school. There are other posts that are bigger, more athletic, more skilled, etc., but Jones does a lot with what she has. |
She certainly is. And she knows how to get open in position. And she is grossly underutilized and MD's guards and coaching exhibits all the shortcomings discussed above. |
Funny! I disagree. She's done very well for herself. |
I agree you she has done very well for herself.
She could do even beter with a little help from her friends.
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LegoMyEggo
Joined: 02 Apr 2010
Posts: 284
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| Posted: 08/30/15 2:38 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| LegoMyEggo wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| LegoMyEggo wrote: |
| If you're a fan of old school post play, Brionna Jones is fun to watch. She does a tremendous job sealing and finishing. She's been remarkable to watch since high school. There are other posts that are bigger, more athletic, more skilled, etc., but Jones does a lot with what she has. |
She certainly is. And she knows how to get open in position. And she is grossly underutilized and MD's guards and coaching exhibits all the shortcomings discussed above. |
Funny! I disagree. She's done very well for herself. |
I agree you she has done very well for herself.
She could do even beter with a little help from her friends. |
Arthur, you're a sharp dude and I don't want to waste too much time on a silly topic. If I'm not going to change your mind, so be it.
The balance of the attack is a HUGE help to her. If opponents double her, they pay the price. They can pick their poison. She's not so tall/long or agile or skilled that even a double team won't stop her.
The way the program has helped her shed circa 50 pounds since high school is an equally HUGE help to her. She can actually run the court now, which she couldn't entering college.
She's still learning to stay out of foul trouble and how to not get penalized by refs for being so physically strong.
This is a kid that was not a high school All-American, not on any 5-star recruit lists that I remember and was not pursued by many top programs. And despite all that she's been a part of two Final Four teams, been All-Conference and made USA Basketball. She has outperformed many kids that were "ranked" higher. It's a heck of a story and a terrific team effort.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
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| Posted: 08/30/15 2:56 pm ::: |
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| LegoMyEggo wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| LegoMyEggo wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| LegoMyEggo wrote: |
| If you're a fan of old school post play, Brionna Jones is fun to watch. She does a tremendous job sealing and finishing. She's been remarkable to watch since high school. There are other posts that are bigger, more athletic, more skilled, etc., but Jones does a lot with what she has. |
She certainly is. And she knows how to get open in position. And she is grossly underutilized and MD's guards and coaching exhibits all the shortcomings discussed above. |
Funny! I disagree. She's done very well for herself. |
I agree you she has done very well for herself.
She could do even beter with a little help from her friends. |
Arthur, you're a sharp dude and I don't want to waste too much time on a silly topic. If I'm not going to change your mind, so be it.
The balance of the attack is a HUGE help to her. If opponents double her, they pay the price. They can pick their poison. She's not so tall/long or agile or skilled that even a double team won't stop her.
The way the program has helped her shed circa 50 pounds since high school is an equally HUGE help to her. She can actually run the court now, which she couldn't entering college.
She's still learning to stay out of foul trouble and how to not get penalized by refs for being so physically strong.
This is a kid that was not a high school All-American, not on any 5-star recruit lists that I remember and was not pursued by many top programs. And despite all that she's been a part of two Final Four teams, been All-Conference and made USA Basketball. She has outperformed many kids that were "ranked" higher. It's a heck of a story and a terrific team effort. |
I'm a big fan of hers. She may be the best pure center in the country this year. I think too much of her scoring is through her own individual effort. Putbacks, loose balls, etc. I think she could do so much more if they made a bigger effort to get her the ball in position to score. I see her frequently work to get open in good position and look, in vain, for the ball. I don't think Brenda has a clue how to best utilize her. My hope is she'll do better with Lexi gone.
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LegoMyEggo
Joined: 02 Apr 2010
Posts: 284
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| Posted: 08/30/15 3:40 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| LegoMyEggo wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| LegoMyEggo wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| LegoMyEggo wrote: |
| If you're a fan of old school post play, Brionna Jones is fun to watch. She does a tremendous job sealing and finishing. She's been remarkable to watch since high school. There are other posts that are bigger, more athletic, more skilled, etc., but Jones does a lot with what she has. |
She certainly is. And she knows how to get open in position. And she is grossly underutilized and MD's guards and coaching exhibits all the shortcomings discussed above. |
Funny! I disagree. She's done very well for herself. |
I agree you she has done very well for herself.
She could do even beter with a little help from her friends. |
Arthur, you're a sharp dude and I don't want to waste too much time on a silly topic. If I'm not going to change your mind, so be it.
The balance of the attack is a HUGE help to her. If opponents double her, they pay the price. They can pick their poison. She's not so tall/long or agile or skilled that even a double team won't stop her.
The way the program has helped her shed circa 50 pounds since high school is an equally HUGE help to her. She can actually run the court now, which she couldn't entering college.
She's still learning to stay out of foul trouble and how to not get penalized by refs for being so physically strong.
This is a kid that was not a high school All-American, not on any 5-star recruit lists that I remember and was not pursued by many top programs. And despite all that she's been a part of two Final Four teams, been All-Conference and made USA Basketball. She has outperformed many kids that were "ranked" higher. It's a heck of a story and a terrific team effort. |
I'm a big fan of hers. She may be the best pure center in the country this year. I think too much of her scoring is through her own individual effort. Putbacks, loose balls, etc. I think she could do so much more if they made a bigger effort to get her the ball in position to score. I see her frequently work to get open in good position and look, in vain, for the ball. I don't think Brenda has a clue how to best utilize her. My hope is she'll do better with Lexi gone. |
I don't think Lexie Brown is a true point guard and, frankly, there aren't all that many in the women's game. If Jones wasn't being utilised well, I don't think she'd have received an invite from USA Basketball or made All-Conference or get noticed by either of us. She is still a work in progress and has done really well so far. One thing she has is a pair of terrific hands- the ball tends to stick to them.
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SDHoops
Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Posts: 1183
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| Posted: 11/22/15 12:18 am ::: |
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| SDHoops wrote: |
| South Dakota State. Returns four starters plus Gabby Boever, who was out this past season with an injury. Macy Miller (younger cousin of NBA player Mike Miller) was the leading scorer as a freshman and put up numbers with the best of them. I think the fact that a NCAA Women's Regional is being played about 40 miles from campus will up the stakes for this years Jacks team. But don't count out the South Dakota Coyotes! Nicole Seekamp was granted a fourth year of eligibility and has been a two-time tournament MVP. |
Yup nobody ever listens to me!!! Notre Dame got a scare today, I'll tell you that!
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geeceem
Joined: 10 Mar 2014
Posts: 123
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| Posted: 11/23/15 8:16 pm ::: |
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| LegoMyEggo wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| LegoMyEggo wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| LegoMyEggo wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| LegoMyEggo wrote: |
| If you're a fan of old school post play, Brionna Jones is fun to watch. She does a tremendous job sealing and finishing. She's been remarkable to watch since high school. There are other posts that are bigger, more athletic, more skilled, etc., but Jones does a lot with what she has. |
She certainly is. And she knows how to get open in position. And she is grossly underutilized and MD's guards and coaching exhibits all the shortcomings discussed above. |
Funny! I disagree. She's done very well for herself. |
I agree you she has done very well for herself.
She could do even beter with a little help from her friends. |
Arthur, you're a sharp dude and I don't want to waste too much time on a silly topic. If I'm not going to change your mind, so be it.
The balance of the attack is a HUGE help to her. If opponents double her, they pay the price. They can pick their poison. She's not so tall/long or agile or skilled that even a double team won't stop her.
The way the program has helped her shed circa 50 pounds since high school is an equally HUGE help to her. She can actually run the court now, which she couldn't entering college.
She's still learning to stay out of foul trouble and how to not get penalized by refs for being so physically strong.
This is a kid that was not a high school All-American, not on any 5-star recruit lists that I remember and was not pursued by many top programs. And despite all that she's been a part of two Final Four teams, been All-Conference and made USA Basketball. She has outperformed many kids that were "ranked" higher. It's a heck of a story and a terrific team effort. |
I'm a big fan of hers. She may be the best pure center in the country this year. I think too much of her scoring is through her own individual effort. Putbacks, loose balls, etc. I think she could do so much more if they made a bigger effort to get her the ball in position to score. I see her frequently work to get open in good position and look, in vain, for the ball. I don't think Brenda has a clue how to best utilize her. My hope is she'll do better with Lexi gone. |
I don't think Lexie Brown is a true point guard and, frankly, there aren't all that many in the women's game. If Jones wasn't being utilised well, I don't think she'd have received an invite from USA Basketball or made All-Conference or get noticed by either of us. She is still a work in progress and has done really well so far. One thing she has is a pair of terrific hands- the ball tends to stick to them. |
When I think of a center, I think--rightly or wrongly--of someone who plays with her back to the basket, and who can come up to the high post to distribute or to take the jumper. My sense is that this is how Muffet used Dev Peters and Natalie Achonwa, and Geno used Stef Dolson. (I'll readily confess my Eastern bias, as I seldom see teams from very far west of the Mississippi.)
The Terps seem geared to playing a three forwards/two guards style rather than developing/using a true center. (I must confess I don't remember how Crystal Langhorne was used.) Brionna uses her size really well underneath, and when we don't have guards who can pour in the points, the defenses collapse on Brionna and tie her up.
It's a very nice gesture to have Chloe start a few games at guard, but she barely scores at all; Brene can score and that helps open up the middle for Brionna to work.
Maybe the larger question is something along the lines of "What do Muffet and Geno know about using centers that the other coaches haven't figured out yet?"
[Edited to remove duplicate sentence.]
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