| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
 Posted: 08/30/15 2:09 pm ::: |
Reply  |
|
| LegoMyEggo wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| LegoMyEggo wrote: |
| Art, I completely agree with you. Is there any mention whether Hatchell received academic performance bonuses for the grades given in these classes?. |
Don't know, but she probably got performance bonuses for that 2006 ACC title and FF appearance. |
Assuming she received all of the above, it would be hard to imagine a scenario where she would have to give the money back. |
I doubt she would.
But I can certainly imagine a scenario where those 2006 banners have to be taken down.
|
|
goforit77
Joined: 09 Jan 2015
Posts: 126
Back to top |
| Posted: 08/30/15 3:24 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Davis4632 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| But of course in 2002 Matt Doherty was mens coach, they went 8-20, he's not an icon, he got fired, and obviously cheating didn't help him a bit, so he's of no interest to the Dukies. |
I see you know why the Dookies and Wuffies are more focused on going after Dean and Roy than Bill and Matt. Make no mistake, MBB is the main target (Dean and Roy in particular) and the other sports are just collateral damage. Some Dookies don't want them to dig up too much dirt on the UNCWBB because some of the focus might turn to them if former Duke and UNC assistant coach Trisha Stafford-Odom was actively involved in any wrongdoing. |
[/quote]
There is a reason TSO left Duke....Just check the Duke self reported NCAA violations for her last year....She was put on a super short leash and she did not like it...She has since moved on to a Div III school for a reason,,,Her recruiting was stellar but often in the grey areas if not outright violations.
|
|
LegoMyEggo
Joined: 02 Apr 2010
Posts: 284
Back to top |
| Posted: 08/30/15 3:43 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| goforit77 wrote: |
| Davis4632 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| But of course in 2002 Matt Doherty was mens coach, they went 8-20, he's not an icon, he got fired, and obviously cheating didn't help him a bit, so he's of no interest to the Dukies. |
I see you know why the Dookies and Wuffies are more focused on going after Dean and Roy than Bill and Matt. Make no mistake, MBB is the main target (Dean and Roy in particular) and the other sports are just collateral damage. Some Dookies don't want them to dig up too much dirt on the UNCWBB because some of the focus might turn to them if former Duke and UNC assistant coach Trisha Stafford-Odom was actively involved in any wrongdoing. |
|
There is a reason TSO left Duke....Just check the Duke self reported NCAA violations for her last year....She was put on a super short leash and she did not like it...She has since moved on to a Div III school for a reason,,,Her recruiting was stellar but often in the grey areas if not outright violations.[/quote]
How did she quietly slide out with seemingly no repercussions? And then went to coach DeShields' and Cooper's AAU team. And then aforementioned players and others she recruited proceeded to file out of UNC.
Probably a lot more to this story that we will never know.
|
|
Durantula
Joined: 30 Mar 2013
Posts: 5223
Back to top |
| Posted: 08/30/15 3:51 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| goforit77 wrote: |
| Davis4632 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| But of course in 2002 Matt Doherty was mens coach, they went 8-20, he's not an icon, he got fired, and obviously cheating didn't help him a bit, so he's of no interest to the Dukies. |
I see you know why the Dookies and Wuffies are more focused on going after Dean and Roy than Bill and Matt. Make no mistake, MBB is the main target (Dean and Roy in particular) and the other sports are just collateral damage. Some Dookies don't want them to dig up too much dirt on the UNCWBB because some of the focus might turn to them if former Duke and UNC assistant coach Trisha Stafford-Odom was actively involved in any wrongdoing. |
|
There is a reason TSO left Duke....Just check the Duke self reported NCAA violations for her last year....She was put on a super short leash and she did not like it...She has since moved on to a Div III school for a reason,,,Her recruiting was stellar but often in the grey areas if not outright violations.[/quote]
Do you know where one could read these self reported violations? If you have a link it would be appreciated. Her departure from UNC was interesting especially considering where she is now.
|
|
goforit77
Joined: 09 Jan 2015
Posts: 126
Back to top |
| Posted: 08/31/15 9:45 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| Durantula wrote: |
| goforit77 wrote: |
| Davis4632 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| But of course in 2002 Matt Doherty was mens coach, they went 8-20, he's not an icon, he got fired, and obviously cheating didn't help him a bit, so he's of no interest to the Dukies. |
I see you know why the Dookies and Wuffies are more focused on going after Dean and Roy than Bill and Matt. Make no mistake, MBB is the main target (Dean and Roy in particular) and the other sports are just collateral damage. Some Dookies don't want them to dig up too much dirt on the UNCWBB because some of the focus might turn to them if former Duke and UNC assistant coach Trisha Stafford-Odom was actively involved in any wrongdoing. |
|
There is a reason TSO left Duke....Just check the Duke self reported NCAA violations for her last year....She was put on a super short leash and she did not like it...She has since moved on to a Div III school for a reason,,,Her recruiting was stellar but often in the grey areas if not outright violations. |
Do you know where one could read these self reported violations? If you have a link it would be appreciated. Her departure from UNC was interesting especially considering where she is now.[/quote]
Sorry I don't...that info was passed on by somebody in the program..
|
|
goforit77
Joined: 09 Jan 2015
Posts: 126
Back to top |
| Posted: 08/31/15 9:54 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| LegoMyEggo wrote: |
| goforit77 wrote: |
| Davis4632 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| But of course in 2002 Matt Doherty was mens coach, they went 8-20, he's not an icon, he got fired, and obviously cheating didn't help him a bit, so he's of no interest to the Dukies. |
I see you know why the Dookies and Wuffies are more focused on going after Dean and Roy than Bill and Matt. Make no mistake, MBB is the main target (Dean and Roy in particular) and the other sports are just collateral damage. Some Dookies don't want them to dig up too much dirt on the UNCWBB because some of the focus might turn to them if former Duke and UNC assistant coach Trisha Stafford-Odom was actively involved in any wrongdoing. |
|
There is a reason TSO left Duke....Just check the Duke self reported NCAA violations for her last year....She was put on a super short leash and she did not like it...She has since moved on to a Div III school for a reason,,,Her recruiting was stellar but often in the grey areas if not outright violations. |
How did she quietly slide out with seemingly no repercussions? And then went to coach DeShields' and Cooper's AAU team. And then aforementioned players and others she recruited proceeded to file out of UNC.
Probably a lot more to this story that we will never know.[/quote]
Definitely More than we will ever know...The word around the Triangle is that UNC was made aware of her recruiting issues before they hired her...Once again she waded into the grey areas of recruiting and with the current NCAA situation the Heels decided that they couldn't take any chances so that along with the fact she was not first in line to replace SH and she was not happy about that it was decided that a mutual parting of the ways would be the best solution...No public admission of recruiting violations and she would fade away for a few years to a Div III school out of the reach of the NCAA
|
|
CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18371
Location: Phoenix
Back to top |
|
goforit77
Joined: 09 Jan 2015
Posts: 126
Back to top |
|
summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7841
Location: Shenandoah Valley
Back to top |
| Posted: 09/01/15 12:25 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Precisely.
_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
|
|
GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 14109
Back to top |
| Posted: 09/01/15 2:57 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| goforit77 wrote: |
Definitely More than we will ever know...The word around the Triangle is that UNC was made aware of her recruiting issues before they hired her...Once again she waded into the grey areas of recruiting and with the current NCAA situation the Heels decided that they couldn't take any chances so that along with the fact she was not first in line to replace SH and she was not happy about that it was decided that a mutual parting of the ways would be the best solution...No public admission of recruiting violations and she would fade away for a few years to a Div III school out of the reach of the NCAA |
She actually went to a NAIA school, and that school is currently in transition to become a NCAA Division II school. And since NCAA oversees Division I, Divisions II and Division III presumable they can still hand down a punishment to an individual if it happened within the NCAA regardless of which division it was at.
|
|
CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18371
Location: Phoenix
Back to top |
|
CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18371
Location: Phoenix
Back to top |
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
| Posted: 09/15/15 9:17 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| The football coach already got fired.
|
|
CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18371
Location: Phoenix
Back to top |
| Posted: 09/17/15 12:03 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| The football coach already got fired. |
And yet Stroman did not...
The football coach (Butch Davis was fired). The initial focus on football was the NCAA's investigation into violations involving improper benefits provided by agents to UNC football players. Some of the academic improprieties came out in that investigation, but the full extent was not known until much later (and a few years after Davis' firing).
As I mentioned below, Wainstein's research found that over the 18-year period, athletes made up 1,871 of the enrollments in the paper classes. Of the enrollments, the football team accounted for 51.4 percent (963), the men's basketball team 12.1 percent (226) and the women's basketball team 6.1 percent (114).
Davis has been fired. Hatchell has not received a new contract. But Roy Williams received a new contract, despite the involvement of men's basketball in years of academic improprieties.
No one is saying Hatchell is not culpable in this; at the very, very least, she failed to monitor her players and program, while receiving bonuses for their academic performances. But as I mentioned on the first page of this thread, men's basketball will likely escape the punishment it deserves to protect Dean Smith's legacy, not to mention saving the NCAA from coming down on a "blue blood" program.
|
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
| Posted: 09/17/15 12:46 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| The football coach already got fired. |
And yet Stroman did not...
The football coach (Butch Davis was fired). The initial focus on football was the NCAA's investigation into violations involving improper benefits provided by agents to UNC football players. Some of the academic improprieties came out in that investigation, but the full extent was not known until much later (and a few years after Davis' firing).
As I mentioned below, Wainstein's research found that over the 18-year period, athletes made up 1,871 of the enrollments in the paper classes. Of the enrollments, the football team accounted for 51.4 percent (963), the men's basketball team 12.1 percent (226) and the women's basketball team 6.1 percent (114).
Davis has been fired. Hatchell has not received a new contract. But Roy Williams received a new contract, despite the involvement of men's basketball in years of academic improprieties.
No one is saying Hatchell is not culpable in this; at the very, very least, she failed to monitor her players and program, while receiving bonuses for their academic performances. But as I mentioned on the first page of this thread, men's basketball will likely escape the punishment it deserves to protect Dean Smith's legacy, not to mention saving the NCAA from coming down on a "blue blood" program. |
In your desperation you keep trying to paint Williams with what Smith, Gutheridge, and Doherty - all of whom are dead or fired - may have done before he arrived, and consistantly gloss over that Hatchell was there the entire time. She was there when it all started. She bears the entire responsibility for the fraud in WBB.
Williams and Hatchell are not in remotely the same position. Stamping your foot and repeating 100 times "yes they are" doesn't make it so.
|
|
linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 5423
Back to top |
| Posted: 09/17/15 2:15 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
It's true that Williams is only responsible for his program while he was the head coach. But if academic fraud was going on under his regime he deserves to be fired. The possible fact that it started before he arrived is irrelevant. If nothing else he is guilty of willful ignorance. The Sgt Schultz plea of "I saw nothing" is bogus. At what he is getting paid it's up to him to look for fraud, not just to put on blinders. This isn't his first rodeo.
I also agree that the NCAA has a vested interest in protecting it's icons. Dean Smith, like Wooden, Rupp et al are prominent figures in the history of NCAA basketball and the NCAA is not the best choice to do a complete and thorough investigation of what is their own legacy.
|
|
CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18371
Location: Phoenix
Back to top |
| Posted: 09/17/15 3:30 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
In your desperation you keep trying to paint Williams with what Smith, Gutheridge, and Doherty - all of whom are dead or fired - may have done before he arrived, and consistantly gloss over that Hatchell was there the entire time. She was there when it all started. She bears the entire responsibility for the fraud in WBB.
Williams and Hatchell are not in remotely the same position. Stamping your foot and repeating 100 times "yes they are" doesn't make it so. |
Yes, in my desperation, based on facts, evidence, a review of all reports, reviewing exhibits. As opposed to your opinion or belief based on...nothing.
And even with Hatchell having been there the entire time, her teams still had just under half (114) of paper class enrollments as compared to men's basketball (226). Of the 226, 167 were under Roy Williams.
These are facts, supported by evidence.
You are correct that they are "not in remotely the same position, as Roy Williams had far more paper class enrollments in a much shorter tenure at UNC.
By all means, please continue with your unsupported and unfounded "arguments," ArtBest.
As an aside and for a bit of humor, we have statements from Roy Williams:
First statement:
“Our track record is pretty doggone good. And our track record has been pretty doggone good for 15 years at Kansas, nine years at North Carolina. And we know how much we emphasize the academic side in the basketball office. We know what our guys are majoring in. We know – every day we’re in touch with those kids. So it’s something, again, that I’m very proud of.”
Second statement:
We don’t know what’s going on every day. I mean, I’ve got 13 to 17 kids, counting the walk-ons and things like that. You don’t know.
http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/unc-scandal/article10122626.html#storylink=cpy
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/62456/uncs-williams-bothered-by-afam-scandal
|
|
ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 11147
Back to top |
| Posted: 09/18/15 9:28 am ::: |
Reply |
|
I've enjoyed my popcorn with this thread ...
Pretty clearly, Hatchell and Williams both deserve the same fate, whatever it is.
Pretty clearly, UNC is a lot more concerned with winning men's basketball games than winning women's basketball games (and what school isn't?).
So hypocrisy -- the life blood of NCAA athletics -- will continue to flourish, and no one will really care.
_________________
Oṃ TÄre TuttÄre Ture SvÄhÄ
|
|
Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15737
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
Back to top |
|
FollowtheCardinalRule
Joined: 12 Oct 2011
Posts: 5153
Location: Denver
Back to top |
|
ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 11147
Back to top |
|
Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15737
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
Back to top |
|
CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18371
Location: Phoenix
Back to top |
| Posted: 09/21/15 11:05 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| ClayK wrote: |
I've enjoyed my popcorn with this thread ...
Pretty clearly, Hatchell and Williams both deserve the same fate, whatever it is.
Pretty clearly, UNC is a lot more concerned with winning men's basketball games than winning women's basketball games (and what school isn't?). |
X__________________________
|
|
summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7841
Location: Shenandoah Valley
Back to top |
|
Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15737
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
Back to top |
|
|
|
