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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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ClayK
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 Posted: 04/06/16 9:52 am ::: |
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| I would assume, based on nothing but past history, that this kind of thing goes on at most P5 schools to some degree or another. UNC just showed extreme arrogance by doing it so obviously ... anybody who wanted to hide these kinds of programs could do so very easily, and with so much money at stake in football and men's basketball, the temptation would be very hard to resist.
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CamrnCrz1974
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CamrnCrz1974
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| Posted: 04/20/16 1:33 pm ::: |
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| Quote: |
The fake class scheme ran for 18 years and involved more than 3,100 students roughly half of them athletes before it was shut down at the start of the fall 2011 semester. An investigation found the office manager began offering the fake classes after academic counselors for athletes complained about independent studies that required meetings and progress reports.
The scandal has damaged UNCs reputation. Its accrediting agency has put it on probation and the NCAA has accused UNC of five major violations, including lack of institutional control. The NCAA case has yet to reach an infractions hearing. |
Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/education/article72635327.html#storylink=cpy
On the other hand, I had to read this next excerpt a few times to make sure I had read the passage correctly (regarding lawsuits filed by former UNC athletes against UNC and the NCAA):
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| UNC and the NCAA also said the former athletes had reason to know something was amiss when they took the fake classes, but they didnt raise objections at that time. |
Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/education/article72635327.html#storylink=cpy
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/20/16 1:38 pm ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| UNC and the NCAA also said the former athletes had reason to know something was amiss when they took the fake classes, but they didnt raise objections at that time. |
If the position taken by UNC at the hearing in the above-referenced lawsuit has been accurately reported, the consesquences of such a defense/position are that it implicitly concedes:
(1) that the "fake classes" were in fact subject to objection by students as being devoid of legitimate educational value; and, perhaps more importantly,
(2) that since the students had reason to know at the time that they could have objected to these classes as "fake," UNC officials likewise knew or should have known at the time that the classes were objectionable as lacking any legitimate academic content (and had a greater reason to know, since UNC was offering the classes)
While this defense might prove effective in preventing or limiting UNC's liability for damages to the individual plaintiffs, those inherent admissions would presumably place UNC in an awkward posture, not only with respect to its responses to the SACS (Southern Association of Colleges and Schools), but also in having to explain to the taxpayers of the State of North Carolina and UNC alumni why the students are to blame for allowing such academic fraud to be perpetrated upon UNC students when the fraud was created/generated/approved/institutionalized for 18 years by UNC itself.
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 04/20/16 3:19 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
| I would assume, based on nothing but past history, that this kind of thing goes on at most P5 schools to some degree or another. UNC just showed extreme arrogance by doing it so obviously ... anybody who wanted to hide these kinds of programs could do so very easily, and with so much money at stake in football and men's basketball, the temptation would be very hard to resist. |
And I would speculate that this is the biggest factor in the NCAA dragging it's feet on the issue. If UNC knew what was going on wouldn't the same be true for schools all over the country? The members of the NCAA are walking a fine line. Come down hard on UNC and risk having your own skeletons tumble out of the closet. Imagine the ripple if the former students at UNC won their suit. How long before hundreds of similar suits are filed all over the country? How long would Pepsi/Coke/McDonalds/etc want their products associated with a corrupt system?
| Quote: |
From GHOSTBUSTERS:
Dr. Peter Venkman: This city is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.
Mayor: What do you mean, "biblical"?
Dr Ray Stantz: What he means is Old Testament, Mr. Mayor, real wrath of God type stuff.
Dr. Peter Venkman: Exactly.
Dr Ray Stantz: Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!
Dr. Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...
Winston Zeddemore: The dead rising from the grave!
Dr. Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!
Mayor: All right, all right! I get the point! |
I expect that at some point the NCAA will announce the appointment of a blue ribbon panel charged to "study" the problem and offer recommendations to improve the situation. 
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/22/16 11:11 am ::: |
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The scuttlebutt is that UNC is going to get hit with a new NOA from the NCAA, with a sixth Level 1 allegation...
The rumored new allegation is that beginning in 1989 and continuing through 2011, UNC permitted student-athletes in multiple sports to compete while ineligible.
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CamrnCrz1974
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 04/24/16 12:06 pm ::: |
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| So is anything ever going to happen? Is there a timeline for a decison?
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 04/24/16 12:48 pm ::: |
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The precious MBB program will be preserved, I have no doubt of that. Sylvia will take the fall for everything Roy and his bunch did, and since her program has gone down the tubes anyway, it will get all the penalties which will last until her contract runs out, leaving the women's program in ruins. Meanwhile, Saint Roy will get by with a slap on the wrist and some minor penalties.
My predictions only, seen through a glass darkly.
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It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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ridor
Joined: 18 Oct 2005
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Location: Frederick, Maryland
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| Posted: 04/25/16 5:13 am ::: |
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summertime blues, you won't hear any argument by me on what you said. They will use Sylvia as a scapegoat and lynched in order to keep Roy Williams. I think it is safe to say that many people also felt the same. Nothing will happen to UNC, none whatsoever.
R-
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Davis4632
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/25/16 1:14 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| The precious MBB program will be preserved, I have no doubt of that. Sylvia will take the fall for everything Roy and his bunch did, and since her program has gone down the tubes anyway, it will get all the penalties which will last until her contract runs out, leaving the women's program in ruins. Meanwhile, Saint Roy will get by with a slap on the wrist and some minor penalties. |
A possible wrench in any plans for the WCBB program to be thrown under the bus for the entire scandal...
Per Mary Willingham, who previously worked with UNC's academic support program (and is one of the whistleblowers regarding the UNC scandal to whom the university/NC paid $335,000 to settle her lawsuit regarding her dismissal), and current UNC Professor Jay Smith, a leading faculty critic of the athletic department's excesses:
"To share our own thoughts about the ability of our current leadership to inaugurate transformative changes, we will soon be posting to this website transcripts of audiotapes recording the conversations Mary Willingham had with a succession of influential leaders between 2010 and 2014. What those transcripts show, we believe, is a leadership cohort so in thrall to the athletic program that it was aggressively uninterested in learning what a whistleblowing insider might have to teach academic officers. With remarkable consistency, the questions and comments they offered were limited, hostile, defensive, and dismissive. Why? Stay tuned."
http://paperclassinc.com/sacs-lies-and-audiotapes/
(emphasis added)
So as the NCAA hammer apparently looms, as SACS deliberates on whether to drop or extend UNC's academic probation, Willingham drops this bomb.
http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/2016/4/24/11499432/unc-scandal-compelling-speculation-and-a-bombshell-from-mary
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lvf08
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/25/16 3:21 pm ::: |
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| Congratulations to UNC for convincing the NCAA that two decades of systemic academic fraud boiled down to UNC's desire for a successful women's basketball program.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 04/25/16 5:34 pm ::: |
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I know you prefer to cherry pick your tidbits of information to suit your own preferred view of things, but the stark reality that the ringleader and originator of the entire scheme was the WOMEN'S basketball athletic academic counselor might have something to to with the focus landing on the women's basketball program.
Instead of fantasizing some grand conspiracy, why not blame the person who deserves the blame, namely Jan Boxiill. The responsibility for whatever happens to the WBB program lands squarely in her lap. The simple and most obvious answer usually ends up being the correct answer.
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CamrnCrz1974
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| Posted: 04/25/16 6:51 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| I know you prefer to cherry pick your tidbits of information to suit your own preferred view of things, but the stark reality that the ringleader and originator of the entire scheme was the WOMEN'S basketball athletic academic counselor might have something to to with the focus landing on the women's basketball program. |
Yes, picking out thousands of exhibits in the UNC public records data dump and the Wainstein report is an example of cherry picking...
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Instead of fantasizing some grand conspiracy, why not blame the person who deserves the blame, namely Jan Boxiill. The responsibility for whatever happens to the WBB program lands squarely in her lap. The simple and most obvious answer usually ends up being the correct answer. |
Right. Boxill deserves the blame for football, men's basketball, and women's basketball, but the ANOA will only specifically mention women's basketball.
I am sure all of the irregularities and improper classes were done for the tremendous profitability and benefit of the women's program.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 04/25/16 10:02 pm ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| I know you prefer to cherry pick your tidbits of information to suit your own preferred view of things, but the stark reality that the ringleader and originator of the entire scheme was the WOMEN'S basketball athletic academic counselor might have something to to with the focus landing on the women's basketball program. |
Yes, picking out thousands of exhibits in the UNC public records data dump and the Wainstein report is an example of cherry picking...
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Instead of fantasizing some grand conspiracy, why not blame the person who deserves the blame, namely Jan Boxiill. The responsibility for whatever happens to the WBB program lands squarely in her lap. The simple and most obvious answer usually ends up being the correct answer. |
Right. Boxill deserves the blame for football, men's basketball, and women's basketball, but the ANOA will only specifically mention women's basketball.
I am sure all of the irregularities and improper classes were done for the tremendous profitability and benefit of the women's program. |
Precisely so. /s
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 7373
Location: Durham, NC
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| Posted: 04/25/16 11:11 pm ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| I know you prefer to cherry pick your tidbits of information to suit your own preferred view of things, but the stark reality that the ringleader and originator of the entire scheme was the WOMEN'S basketball athletic academic counselor might have something to to with the focus landing on the women's basketball program. |
Yes, picking out thousands of exhibits in the UNC public records data dump and the Wainstein report is an example of cherry picking...
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Instead of fantasizing some grand conspiracy, why not blame the person who deserves the blame, namely Jan Boxiill. The responsibility for whatever happens to the WBB program lands squarely in her lap. The simple and most obvious answer usually ends up being the correct answer. |
Right. Boxill deserves the blame for football, men's basketball, and women's basketball, but the ANOA will only specifically mention women's basketball.
I am sure all of the irregularities and improper classes were done for the tremendous profitability and benefit of the women's program. |
This is the height of hypocrisy. Save the revenue generating sports, despite the fact that the great majority of athletes who took fake classes were MBB and FB players. Who cares that the originator worked for WBB. Roy's guy was DEEP in this. Follow the lawsuits. More men have filed, though also quite a few women. Players that didn't make much a career out of the sport so needed a real degree and now it ain't worth the paper it's written on.
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Davis4632
Joined: 14 Jul 2014
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| Posted: 04/26/16 1:44 am ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
The scuttlebutt is that UNC is going to get hit with a new NOA from the NCAA, with a sixth Level 1 allegation...
The rumored new allegation is that beginning in 1989 and continuing through 2011, UNC permitted student-athletes in multiple sports to compete while ineligible. |
How do you feel about being lead on by Manalishi from Pack Pride and to a lesser extent your pal DevilDJ from TDD? I know quite a few posters from both of those sites are upset with Manalishi because they believed he had inside information from the NCAA about the what the new allegation among other things about UNC.
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/26/16 2:42 am ::: |
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| So to sum it up: despite criminal charges being filed, despite several investigations including the Martin and Wainstein reports, despite being put on probation by the accreditation agency the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools, despite Julius Peppers' damning transcript being made public, despite the lawsuit which revealed Michael McAdoo's plagiarism and began the exposure of wholesale systematic fraud, despite the other lawsuits by student-athletes, despite the unquestionable enrollment of dozens of football and men's basketball players in these fake classes, despite unauthorized grade changes, despite hiring an assistant men's basketball coach in Sean May without making clear that his degree was in fact earned (May talked extensively about taking independent study classes while at UNC which he said freed up his time considerably), which took place in the middle of the scandal in a giant middle finger to everyone, despite the NCAA investigation, football and men's basketball have a reasonable shot at getting away with a nearly 20-year effort to push players through school by means of fake classes.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 04/26/16 8:28 am ::: |
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| <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/jZ6nF6JKtRc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 04/26/16 9:01 am ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| So to sum it up: despite criminal charges being filed, |
Since you evidently think these CRIMINAL CHARGES are of sufficient import to lead off your "summary", why don't you fill in the details for your readers by telling them how many charges were brought against how many individuals and what the disposition of those charges was, how long ago.
Or don't those details fit your agenda?
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ArtBest23
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/26/16 5:54 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| So to sum it up: despite criminal charges being filed, |
Since you evidently think these CRIMINAL CHARGES are of sufficient import to lead off your "summary", why don't you fill in the details for your readers by telling them how many charges were brought against how many individuals and what the disposition of those charges was, how long ago.
Or don't those details fit your agenda? |
Funny how I posted all of the exhibits and evidence from Wainstein and the SACS investigations, which you admitted you did not read (and you admitted that in this thread on multiple occasions).
And there were criminal charges filed against Julius N'yongo and others. Would you like me to post those for you, or will you not read that as well?
Funny you talk about my agenda, about posting exhibits and documents (you know, "evidence"), but not your "selective reading and selective comprehension" agenda...
Last edited by CamrnCrz1974 on 04/26/16 5:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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(I'm really not plugged into this scene)
