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NoDakSt
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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 Posted: 06/19/15 11:49 am ::: Gray to..... |
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| South Carolina.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 06/19/15 11:56 am ::: |
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How many transfers can one program collect before someone launches an investigation into possible tampering?
And a couple of these happened with remarkable speed.
Rule 39 - There is no such thing as coincidence.
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LadyLionsFan
Joined: 25 May 2015
Posts: 57
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| Posted: 06/19/15 12:32 pm ::: |
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| The rich just keep getting richer.....why don't any of these high profile transfers end up at Penn State? Coquese only has 12 players on her roster for the second straight year. Allowed 15. The way I see it coach is denying 3 kids an opportunity of a great education.
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LadyLionsFan
Joined: 25 May 2015
Posts: 57
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| Posted: 06/19/15 12:42 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
How many transfers can one program collect before someone launches an investigation into possible tampering?
And a couple of these happened with remarkable speed.
Rule 39 - There is no such thing as coincidence. |
Sounds like a conspiracy theory. Ha ha. Remember Oswald acted alone...there are no Watergates, Iran-Contra never happened and the Penn State University Board of "Trustees" didn't really throw their own football program (including its venerable head coach) under the proverbial bus to save their own hides. Just sayin.
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Conway Gamecock
Joined: 23 Jan 2015
Posts: 1900
Location: Here
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| Posted: 06/19/15 12:46 pm ::: |
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Something special is happening at South Carolina. No one ever heard of Connecticut when Auriemma first took that job. It can happen again elsewhere.
I know one thing: Dawn Staley is going to have to bust her recruiting butt for the 2018 cycle. She'll have a ton of incredible talent to replace with that class. She better start on it tomorrow.....
Maybe she should've taken some HC assignments with the USA U15 and U16 teams, lol......
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Oldfandepot2
Joined: 05 Jul 2013
Posts: 996
Location: Northeast
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| Posted: 06/19/15 1:07 pm ::: |
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| LadyLionsFan wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
How many transfers can one program collect before someone launches an investigation into possible tampering?
And a couple of these happened with remarkable speed.
Rule 39 - There is no such thing as coincidence. |
Sounds like a conspiracy theory. Ha ha. Remember Oswald acted alone...there are no Watergates, Iran-Contra never happened and the Penn State University Board of "Trustees" didn't really throw their own football program (including its venerable head coach) under the proverbial bus to save their own hides. Just sayin. |
My boss who oversaw our government investigations unit would drolely, dispassionately and laconically say to myself and fellow officers and agents, it raises a lot of questions. Go find the answers. We did for better or worse. Time to find the answers if not for Dawn's sake and remove if necessary the specter of uncertainly that something is amiss. There are going to be a lot of questions asked so best to get the answers now.
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We must listen to each other no matter how much it hurts. Bishop Desmond Tutu.
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Lillian Hidgepork
Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Posts: 104
Location: Down South
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AJMMs
Joined: 09 May 2005
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terpsforever
Joined: 17 Jul 2011
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| Posted: 06/19/15 7:13 pm ::: |
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| This is great! Gray is a very good player. Happy for her.
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Durantula
Joined: 30 Mar 2013
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| Posted: 06/19/15 7:30 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
How many transfers can one program collect before someone launches an investigation into possible tampering?
And a couple of these happened with remarkable speed.
Rule 39 - There is no such thing as coincidence. |
I am somewhat skeptical. Gray, Davis, and Imovbioh would qualify as three of the best transfers on the market. I don't think any of those three took any other visits, it was basically SC from the jump which just doesn't seem to make sense unless this stuff was decided on before a release was asked for. I mean South Carolina is a good program but to have no real competition for any of these kids I find very odd. They may list a school here or there but it was SC really fast for all of them.
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AJMMs
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 139
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| Posted: 06/19/15 8:10 pm ::: |
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| Durantula wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
How many transfers can one program collect before someone launches an investigation into possible tampering?
And a couple of these happened with remarkable speed.
Rule 39 - There is no such thing as coincidence. |
I am somewhat skeptical. Gray, Davis, and Imovbioh would qualify as three of the best transfers on the market. I don't think any of those three took any other visits, it was basically SC from the jump which just doesn't seem to make sense unless this stuff was decided on before a release was asked for. I mean South Carolina is a good program but to have no real competition for any of these kids I find very odd. They may list a school here or there but it was SC really fast for all of them. |
Just an observation, but wonder if Caldwell was maybe considering South Carolina also and now Gray beat her to the punch. I mean, RC was the starting point guard for Dawn Staley at the U-18s last year right? Good luck to all the transfers. Hope they all find the right place and do well.
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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| Posted: 06/19/15 8:22 pm ::: |
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According to Maria Cornelius on the Summitt, Sylvia Hatchell refused permission for Gray to transfer to Tenn.
And Mavunga has tweeted about Gray "bossing her around" and just started following Kaela Davis on Twitter.
Given that some of these players may want to stay in the southeast, and their former teams/conference have blocked them from transferring to another ACC team and certain SEC team(s), and they want to compete at the highest level, I don't think we need to look for a tampering conspiracy to induce them to SC.
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AJMMs
Joined: 09 May 2005
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| Posted: 06/19/15 8:55 pm ::: |
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| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
According to Maria Cornelius on the Summitt, Sylvia Hatchell refused permission for Gray to transfer to Tenn.
And Mavunga has tweeted about Gray "bossing her around" and just started following Kaela Davis on Twitter.
Given that some of these players may want to stay in the southeast, and their former teams/conference have blocked them from transferring to another ACC team and certain SEC team(s), and they want to compete at the highest level, I don't think we need to look for a tampering conspiracy to induce them to SC. |
Plus, if they are all interested as it appears to be including maybe Caldwell who has ties to Staley, better jump in quick before some other elite at your position beats you to it. I just think besides the usual UConn, Tenessee and Notre Dame, that South Carolina looks really appealing to a lot of recruits right now. They are a step away from a national title. Of course it's an appealing option. Staley has really proved she can be a successful D-I coach. But does she have what it takes to win it all? Easier said than done, unless you are Geno and UConn.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 06/20/15 10:01 am ::: |
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And what would be wrong with "tampering"? Shouldn't players be allowed to talk to everyone involved about their future, including coaches and other players?
Dawn Staley is doing what college coaches have to do: Recruit talent, and lots of it. She does so at every level and has built a national powerhouse.
If other coaches don't like it, they just need to do a better job.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 06/20/15 10:48 am ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
And what would be wrong with "tampering"? Shouldn't players be allowed to talk to everyone involved about their future, including coaches and other players?
Dawn Staley is doing what college coaches have to do: Recruit talent, and lots of it. She does so at every level and has built a national powerhouse.
If other coaches don't like it, they just need to do a better job. |
Sure. Screw the rules. What's wrong with cheating.
You don't like it, change the rules. But right now it's illegal.
We all understand you prefer the wild west where everybody is an unrestricted free agent 24/7/365. Heck why not let coaches recruit a player right off the opposing team at haltime and start the second half for the other side. What's wrong with that?
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Durantula
Joined: 30 Mar 2013
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| Posted: 06/20/15 11:23 am ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
And what would be wrong with "tampering"? Shouldn't players be allowed to talk to everyone involved about their future, including coaches and other players?
Dawn Staley is doing what college coaches have to do: Recruit talent, and lots of it. She does so at every level and has built a national powerhouse.
If other coaches don't like it, they just need to do a better job. |
I completely disagree with you. So you think its fair game for a coach to actively pursue players from other teams even if they had not asked for a release to transfer, in hopes of getting them to transfer? How about USA Basketball, if I coach USA Basketball should I be able to recruit those kids to transfer to my school? This is ridiculous to believe this is fine.
How about when a player commits to a school, should coaches still recruit this player? In football this happens and its why football recruiting is so unethical.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8230
Location: Heisenberg
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| Posted: 06/20/15 11:26 am ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Heck why not let coaches recruit a player right off the opposing team at haltime and start the second half for the other side. |
That's a terrific libertarian and capitalistic idea. However, it probably would only work if WCBB adopted another crucially needed reform -- the ability of colleges to pay student-athletes unlimited amounts of spending-and-street money for professional services rendered. |
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 06/20/15 12:14 pm ::: |
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| Durantula wrote: |
How about when a player commits to a school, should coaches still recruit this player? In football this happens and its why football recruiting is so unethical. |
Actually it isn't because the rules make clear there is no such thing as a commitment until an LOI is signed or a student enrolls. A "verbal" is meaningless and thus there's no ethical issue in continuing to recruit such a player. The rule is actually for the protection of the player.
Or you think one of these kids who verbals in 7th grade should be off limits for five years before they can actually commit?
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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Location: Heisenberg
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| Posted: 06/20/15 2:09 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Durantula wrote: |
How about when a player commits to a school, should coaches still recruit this player? In football this happens and its why football recruiting is so unethical. |
Actually it isn't because the rules make clear there is no such thing as a commitment until an LOI is signed or a student enrolls. A "verbal" is meaningless and thus there's no ethical issue in continuing to recruit such a player. The rule is actually for the protection of the player.
Or you think one of these kids who verbals in 7th grade should be off limits for five years before they can actually commit? |
Yes, it's the NLI that defines the "legality" and "ethics" of continuing to recruit a prospective student-athlete. The NLI has three primary effects:
1. All the schools that participate in the NLI program agree to stop recruiting a prospect once she signs the NLI.
2. The signing school promises a scholarship for one year, contingent on the prospect's meeting all admission requirements.
3. The prospect promises to stay in residence at the signing school until completing one academic year of course work. The NLI penalty for not doing so is to forfeit one year of athletic eligibility and to sit out a year, the latter of which the NCAA rules also usually require. Some conferences have adopted rules that completely and forever disallow intra-conference transfers of players who sign NLI's even if the signing school releases the player from the NLI (or at least the Big East used to do that).
Some schools claim they voluntarily respect verbal commitments even though they don't have to. That would be hard to prove. |
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7848
Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 06/20/15 2:24 pm ::: |
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| OK, then riddle me this--how is it "legal" for a coach to block a player from transferring to a certain school that is outside of the conference of the school the player is leaving happens to be in?
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It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 06/20/15 2:25 pm ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Durantula wrote: |
How about when a player commits to a school, should coaches still recruit this player? In football this happens and its why football recruiting is so unethical. |
Actually it isn't because the rules make clear there is no such thing as a commitment until an LOI is signed or a student enrolls. A "verbal" is meaningless and thus there's no ethical issue in continuing to recruit such a player. The rule is actually for the protection of the player.
Or you think one of these kids who verbals in 7th grade should be off limits for five years before they can actually commit? |
Yes, it's the NLI that defines the "legality" and "ethics" of continuing to recruit a prospective student-athlete. The NLI has three primary effects:
1. All the schools that participate in the NLI program agree to stop recruiting a prospect once she signs the NLI.
2. The signing school promises a scholarship for one year, contingent on the prospect's meeting all admission requirements.
3. The prospect promises to stay in residence at the signing school until completing one academic year of course work. The NLI penalty for not doing so is to forfeit one year of athletic eligibility and to sit out a year, the latter of which the NCAA rules also usually require. Some conferences have adopted rules that completely and forever disallow intra-conference transfers of players who sign NLI's even if the signing school releases the player from the NLI (or at least the Big East used to do that).
Some schools claim they voluntarily respect verbal commitments even though they don't have to. That would be hard to prove. |
I think some schools used to claim that. I don't know a single school that still does. I think that notion died five or ten years ago.
Kids can't commit until signing day. And until then schools aren't committed either and can (and do) withdraw offers. I have no sympathy for coaches who want kids to give meaningless verbals outside the stucture set by the rules and then complain when meaningless verbals turn out to be indeed meaningless.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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Location: Heisenberg
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| Posted: 06/20/15 2:54 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| OK, then riddle me this--how is it "legal" for a coach to block a player from transferring to a certain school that is outside of the conference of the school the player is leaving happens to be in? |
If the player has satisfied the NLI by completing one academic year of course work, the rule you are thinking of is an NCAA transfer rule -- the one that was extensively discussed here regarding the Leticia Romero situation with KSU.
The NCAA transfer rules require an athlete to get permission to talk to a potential transfer school. If the current school denies permission, that has two effects. First, the other school's coaching staff cannot talk to the player. This does not prevent the player from transferring. But second, if the player does transfer, the new school is prohibited from giving any athletic aid during the year the player has to sit out under the NCAA transfer rules.
If the current school does give permission to contact and the player transfers, the new school can give athletic aid during the mandatory sit-out year.
This is probably the "blocking" you are thinking of.
In Romero's case, she was denied permission at first but then KSU relented under public pressure. In addition, for reasons I've never heard explained, Romero was even given an exemption by the NCAA from the usually mandatory one year sit-out. |
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 06/20/15 3:32 pm ::: |
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| Duplicate
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 06/20/15 3:32 pm ::: |
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You would think after all this time and the discussions ad nausuem folks would understand that the NLI rules and the NCAA transfer rules are seperate and distinct. The NLI rules aren't even NCAA rules (although in recent years some adminustrative and appeals functions have been delegated to the NCAA).
And then there are also conference rules.
Last edited by ArtBest23 on 06/20/15 3:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 12539
Location: Dallas , Texas
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| Posted: 06/20/15 7:31 pm ::: |
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| The College Game Is Losing Its Theme IMO. First Players Can Recieve Funds , Then The Grades Scandal , Then Players Switching Teams Like Its Musical Chairs, Then Switchin From 2 Halves To 4 Quarters Now Coaches Recruiting Active College Athletes! Theres NoWay Anyone Can Convince Me 2 Of The Nations Top 20 Players Randomly Chose To Play For Dawn Staley. Mavunga Has Now Decided To Transfer So If She Chooses USC Will The Talks By The NCAA Comittee Finally Begin? What Does It Take Geez , This Kills the whole purpose of recruiting and building prestige for your program . And All This Is Coming From A Gamecock Fan. Yes I Am , I just appreciate the game too much too see it fall apart this way. P.S. Im ALady Vol Fan At Heart lol Newfound USC Fan TBH
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