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Durantula
Joined: 30 Mar 2013
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 Posted: 06/16/15 7:44 pm ::: Recee Caldwell Transferring from UCLA |
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@macsmith413
UCLA G Recee Caldwell has requested a transfer from the Bruin program. Caldwell missed last two months of season with knee injury. #espnW
Caldwell was a McDonald's All American last season. She was one of two top PG recruits who signed with UCLA in 2014. Why two of the best PG's wanted to play for the same team is questionable to me, and fast forward 1 year and one of them leaves. Not a surprise. Texas A&M could use a PG, couldn't they?
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NoDakSt
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 06/16/15 8:20 pm ::: |
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| This is crazy.
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PRballer
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 06/17/15 12:58 am ::: |
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Goodness, ladies. Pick a program and stick with it!
(General comment - the transfers are out of control today - nothing personal or particular towards Caldwell or UCLA).
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patsweetpat
Joined: 14 Jul 2010
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| Posted: 06/17/15 8:48 am ::: |
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| Darn.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 06/17/15 11:12 am ::: |
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| PRballer wrote: |
Goodness, ladies. Pick a program and stick with it!
(General comment - the transfers are out of control today - nothing personal or particular towards Caldwell or UCLA). |
I don't see a problem with transfers. What's the negative beyond some fan confusion?
If a player isn't happy, it doesn't do her or the program any good for her to stay. And if there's some sense that a 17-year-old should make a decision and then stick with it no matter what, I don't get that either. How many bad decisions did I make at 17? At 27? Etc.
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PRballer
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 06/17/15 8:23 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
| PRballer wrote: |
Goodness, ladies. Pick a program and stick with it!
(General comment - the transfers are out of control today - nothing personal or particular towards Caldwell or UCLA). |
I don't see a problem with transfers. What's the negative beyond some fan confusion?
If a player isn't happy, it doesn't do her or the program any good for her to stay. And if there's some sense that a 17-year-old should make a decision and then stick with it no matter what, I don't get that either. How many bad decisions did I make at 17? At 27? Etc. |
There has been more high profile transfers over the past year, Clay. It's about the volume of them.
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AJMMs
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Howee
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ClayK
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 06/18/15 10:59 am ::: |
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| Really. just deal with it and move on. The sky is not falling.
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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dtrain34
Joined: 17 Aug 2010
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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| Posted: 06/18/15 1:05 pm ::: |
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| I understand Caldwell's decision to transfer better than her original decision to go to UCLA in the same class as another high school AA and USAB point guard, Jordin Canada. Canada outperformed Caldwell in their freshman year, and it's rational for Caldwell to want more of the reins for herself somewhere else. |
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AJMMs
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PhillyCat
Joined: 18 Jun 2012
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| Posted: 06/18/15 3:04 pm ::: |
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At some point you do have to wonder what the player and, in this case, her father are looking for. She quit her high school team as a junior and now is leaving her college team after an injury cut short her freshman year. That's a few years without playing many games.
Hopefully she'll find a place that meets her needs so she can play in organized games.
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LadyLionsFan
Joined: 25 May 2015
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| Posted: 06/18/15 3:29 pm ::: |
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| As I said in another thread regarding all the transfers...we are on here posting about teenagers in many cases. They are going to change their mind, it is their life after all. Penn State's frosh class arrived on campus yesterday, so it does seem really late to be transferring.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 06/18/15 4:17 pm ::: |
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You don't often see 5* recruits transfer in the mens game because top players like that don't transfer, they just turn pro, which they can do after just one year.
Nonetheless, I have read that there are 574 transfers in MCBB this year, and while you won't find many household names, many of these players are starters and occassionally their team's high scorer.
So the women still trail well behind the men in terms of transfers. I think it's just the prominence of some of this year's names that causes everyone to sit up and take notice.
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allenleavell
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| Posted: 06/18/15 4:28 pm ::: |
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| Yes it is hard for young people to stay unhappy for certain reasons.Cee and Jordin played on teams together when they were younger. I hope some of the fans realized that not just athletes are transferring a lot of student transfer for several reasons.What is the problems with families making decisions that best for them? It just difficult for some students.Some handle it well some don't.
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ArtBest23
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| Posted: 06/18/15 4:44 pm ::: |
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It's certainly not close to all, but there does seem to be a disproportionate share of these transfers where it is well known that there is a stage mom or dad in the picture.
Makes you wonder in some of these cases who it is that's unhappy - the kid or the parent? Whose expectations are not being met - the player or the parent.
Unfortunately, the entire burden of uprooting and disrupting their life falls on the kid, not the parent.
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Durantula
Joined: 30 Mar 2013
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| Posted: 06/18/15 5:38 pm ::: |
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| allenleavell wrote: |
| Yes it is hard for young people to stay unhappy for certain reasons.Cee and Jordin played on teams together when they were younger. I hope some of the fans realized that not just athletes are transferring a lot of student transfer for several reasons.What is the problems with families making decisions that best for them? It just difficult for some students.Some handle it well some don't. |
The amount of transfers is getting higher each year. Are kids more high maintenance today than a decade or two ago?
Here's what I don't get.. when you are in high school if you are a great player like a Caldwell, you are being recruited for years, taking all these visits, getting to know coaches. When you transfer, look at the time frame of when kids commit. THe time period is so short and accelerated because they can't take visits in July when coaches are on the road recruiting, so they have a compressed schedule where they visit a school for 2 days max, talk on the phone a couple times with a coach, and now they are supposed to make a more informed college choice, compared to when they had 4 years to think long and hard about it? I think kids just "man up" the 2nd time around because they know they aren't going to transfer and sit out a 3rd time, so they make the most of things at the 2nd school, but why not just make the best of things at the 1st school? Something must have drawn them there in the first place right?
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 06/18/15 5:59 pm ::: |
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| Durantula wrote: |
| allenleavell wrote: |
| Yes it is hard for young people to stay unhappy for certain reasons.Cee and Jordin played on teams together when they were younger. I hope some of the fans realized that not just athletes are transferring a lot of student transfer for several reasons.What is the problems with families making decisions that best for them? It just difficult for some students.Some handle it well some don't. |
The amount of transfers is getting higher each year. Are kids more high maintenance today than a decade or two ago?
Here's what I don't get.. when you are in high school if you are a great player like a Caldwell, you are being recruited for years, taking all these visits, getting to know coaches. When you transfer, look at the time frame of when kids commit. THe time period is so short and accelerated because they can't take visits in July when coaches are on the road recruiting, so they have a compressed schedule where they visit a school for 2 days max, talk on the phone a couple times with a coach, and now they are supposed to make a more informed college choice, compared to when they had 4 years to think long and hard about it? I think kids just "man up" the 2nd time around because they know they aren't going to transfer and sit out a 3rd time, so they make the most of things at the 2nd school, but why not just make the best of things at the 1st school? Something must have drawn them there in the first place right? |
Personally I think the AAU circuit promotes the prima donna culture and engenders a notion of entitlement, of unrealistic expectations, and of inflated value. And then social media feeds those beliefs. It's bound to result in some disapointment among players and parents when reality hits.
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AJMMs
Joined: 09 May 2005
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| Posted: 06/18/15 7:26 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Durantula wrote: |
| allenleavell wrote: |
| Yes it is hard for young people to stay unhappy for certain reasons.Cee and Jordin played on teams together when they were younger. I hope some of the fans realized that not just athletes are transferring a lot of student transfer for several reasons.What is the problems with families making decisions that best for them? It just difficult for some students.Some handle it well some don't. |
The amount of transfers is getting higher each year. Are kids more high maintenance today than a decade or two ago?
Here's what I don't get.. when you are in high school if you are a great player like a Caldwell, you are being recruited for years, taking all these visits, getting to know coaches. When you transfer, look at the time frame of when kids commit. THe time period is so short and accelerated because they can't take visits in July when coaches are on the road recruiting, so they have a compressed schedule where they visit a school for 2 days max, talk on the phone a couple times with a coach, and now they are supposed to make a more informed college choice, compared to when they had 4 years to think long and hard about it? I think kids just "man up" the 2nd time around because they know they aren't going to transfer and sit out a 3rd time, so they make the most of things at the 2nd school, but why not just make the best of things at the 1st school? Something must have drawn them there in the first place right? |
Personally I think the AAU circuit promotes the prima donna culture and engenders a notion of entitlement, of unrealistic expectations, and of inflated value. And then social media feeds those beliefs. It's bound to result in some disapointment among players and parents when reality hits. |
Some one on the UCLA board posted that it was rumored that Caldwell's parents (specifically pops) was vocal about his unhappiness with the UCLA program. If pops is unhappy, how can the kid be happy? I know RC has always seemed to speak highly of the Bruin coaches. She seems to be pretty close with the players too. It brings me back to the Nicole Kaczmarski incident. Kaz signed with UCLA despite her pops' adamant disapproval, played one season and then under the pressure of pops, transferred to Georgia, never played there, gave up basketball altogether and ended up at Stony Brook and waiting tables while a student there.
About a year ago, Kaz took a visit back to UCLA and longtime wbb fixture Pam Walker. There are cases where parents are much too much involved and I hope that wasn't the case with RC. Seems like Kaz always wanted to stay a Bruin, at least in these few tweets. Unfortunate we didn't get to see her full potential as a baller.
https://twitter.com/uclapam/status/375808529216438273
https://twitter.com/NicoleKaz23/status/398878575870631936
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Conway Gamecock
Joined: 23 Jan 2015
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| Posted: 06/18/15 8:51 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
I don't see a problem with transfers. What's the negative beyond some fan confusion?
If a player isn't happy, it doesn't do her or the program any good for her to stay. And if there's some sense that a 17-year-old should make a decision and then stick with it no matter what, I don't get that either. How many bad decisions did I make at 17? At 27? Etc. |
I think what is surprising to many on the number of transfers by top prospects and talents, is that these aren't - or shouldn't be - the typical bad mistakes that one makes at 17 or 27.
How many bad mistakes does a 17-yr. old - or 27-yr. old - make when those mistakes were based on decisions that often takes a year or more to decide on, with typically assistance from that 17-yr old's parents or guardians, or high school HC or AAU HC? A lot of these particular former prospects also happen to be the off-spring of former collegiate athletes who even advanced to the professional level: they certainly should have a wealth of knowledge and experience about the whole college recruiting process, and what programs/systems their daughter best fits in, to offer their child before she makes her final decision.
The big question is, why are all these elite players not able to make a more intelligent decision, and then follow through on it to the end? I can understand Brown's dilemma, as certainly she didn't and couldn't foresee her entire university move to another conference, which demographically is in a different part of the country. Her problem was understandable to me. But Davis (who transferred to my South Carolina) should have known what GT's situation was when she chose it. DeShields likewise with UNC, and Caldwell with UCLA, Calhoun with Duke, and Edwards with UConn.
And the girls don't play 1 year and then move on to the pros, like the boys do. They typically play out their collegiate careers, so even if they don't win Freshman Of The Year that doesn't mean they can't still develop into future Player Of The Year with their original team if they just be patient and work hard.
The other UNC players post-DeShields, like Washington and Gray, I also understand as they seem to have legitimate concerns about the academic scandal at UNC, and the future of the program there...
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 06/18/15 10:03 pm ::: |
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| I see DeShields' situation somewhat in the same light as Michelle Marciniak's back in the 90s, a case of buyer's remorse. She made a choice, got there, discovered it wasn't what she wanted after all, gave it her best shot while she was there, and it still wasn't what she wanted, so she went back to her first choice. It happens. Calhoun, if you listen to some Duke people who seem to know what's going on, can hardly be blamed for wanting to bail the hell out. If rumors are to be believed (and there are enough of them that I tend to!) then it's only surprising that more don't. The fact that she sat out an entire semester before transferring makes me wonder what else was going on. Davis is a whole other story, and far from me to try to figure THAT one out! Edwards didn't do anything that a whole bunch of other kids who left UConn haven't, and what's wrong with that anyway? Most of them were a lot happier where they went. Why do you have to stay where you're not happy?
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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ClayK
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| Posted: 06/19/15 10:00 am ::: |
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One of the biggest issues is figuring out the best fit ...
1) It's very difficult to determine just how good a high school player is off of her young career. Elite players have been stars all along, and they, their families and friends naturally think they're better than they are -- and it's very hard to find someone they will listen to who will point out that maybe, in this case, Canada was a better player.
So part of the equation is an unrealistic estimate of ability coming out of high school, and that's a very tough one to solve. Consider that many coaches make bad evaluations, and they try very hard to evaluate dispassionately.
2) The key to any recruiting/drafting is guessing when a player will stop improving. Some players are as good as they will be at 15; others improve until their mid-20s.
So maybe Caldwell had reached her peak at 17, and while others improved around her, she stayed the same. (I have no idea if this is true in this case.)
Put together a) slightly unrealistic estimation of talent coming in; and b) faster improvement by others on the same college roster, and you have a basketball reason to transfer.
Add in social, family, academic and other late-teen stresses, and I think it's pretty clear why many young players decide the grass will be greener somewhere else.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 06/19/15 11:28 am ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
One of the biggest issues is figuring out the best fit ...
1) It's very difficult to determine just how good a high school player is off of her young career. Elite players have been stars all along, and they, their families and friends naturally think they're better than they are -- and it's very hard to find someone they will listen to who will point out that maybe, in this case, Canada was a better player.
So part of the equation is an unrealistic estimate of ability coming out of high school, and that's a very tough one to solve. Consider that many coaches make bad evaluations, and they try very hard to evaluate dispassionately.
2) The key to any recruiting/drafting is guessing when a player will stop improving. Some players are as good as they will be at 15; others improve until their mid-20s.
So maybe Caldwell had reached her peak at 17, and while others improved around her, she stayed the same. (I have no idea if this is true in this case.)
Put together a) slightly unrealistic estimation of talent coming in; and b) faster improvement by others on the same college roster, and you have a basketball reason to transfer.
Add in social, family, academic and other late-teen stresses, and I think it's pretty clear why many young players decide the grass will be greener somewhere else. |
I don't know her personal situation, but I keep reading that she has a dad who is very, shall we say, "involved".
And in these situations I always wonder who is actually unhappy - the girl, or dad, or both. It's a shame if daddy is uprooting his daughter from friends and a school she loves just because he's unhappy about how her basketball has progressed. But that does happen. I've seen it happen in football and basketball. And it rarely works out for the best. Daddy may be pushing her into a situation for which she is ill suited based on his unrealistic assessment of her place in the basketball universe. And basketball isn't necessarily the most important thing to or for her, but it may be to daddy's vicarious ambitions.
You're certainly right about unrealistic evaluations, which result in a sense of entitlement and unrealistic expectations, which I think are fed by the AAU prima donna culture and by social media. And parents are often even less realistic in their assessments and expectations than the players themselves. In my experience players more often recognize that someone else is simply better than they are than mommy and daddy do.
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