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Durantula
Joined: 30 Mar 2013
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 Posted: 05/29/15 4:47 pm ::: Final Recruiting Class Ranks for 2015 |
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ESPN has their top 20 classes of incoming freshmen finalized now. Biggest surprise to me is Kansas having a top 20 class when they weren't very good and they fired their coach. Purdue and Penn State are higher than I thought given their season but there's more than the recent season that goes into this stuff. UConn at 3 instead of 1 is a minor surprise given UConn's a recruiting juggernaut.
http://espn.go.com/high-school/girls-basketball/recruiting/class-rankings?class=2015
1. Duke
2. Louisville
3. Connecticut
4. Baylor
5. Notre Dame
6. Texas
7. North Carolina
8. California
9. Purdue
10. UCLA
11. Maryland
12. Kentucky
13. Tennessee
14. Michigan
15. Penn State
16. NC State
17. Iowa
18. Kansas
19. Virginia Tech
20. Arkansas
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 05/29/15 5:20 pm ::: |
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| These rankings are highly dependent on how the particular service weights quantity vs quality.
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Durantula
Joined: 30 Mar 2013
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| Posted: 05/29/15 6:06 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| These rankings are highly dependent on how the particular service weights quantity vs quality. |
I mean its all subjective but its a nice way to get a quick snapshot of which teams could expect some impact newcomers. Like I am not surprised Duke or UConn have top classes but for instance I would have never known UCLA had a top class after the season they had, or Purdue. Maybe some of them have quantity over quality but hey, maybe it means they have more opportunities to find someone who can impact their team from day 1.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 05/29/15 6:17 pm ::: |
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Well my comment was prompted primarily by your surprise at UConn being #3, but the same quantity/quality balance influences all of the rankings.
Services struggle with that, and fiddle with their approaches, but different services will have different class rankings driven more by this issue than by differences in individual player rankings.
At least in football the biggest services tell you how they calculate the class rankings. Here, it seems to be a "black box".
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 05/30/15 11:42 am ::: |
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Assuming it's Dan Olson doing the rankings, he's by far the best informed guy in the business and has no obvious biases.
That said, like everyone, there are certain kinds of players he likes more than others, and he may or may not put more weight on quantity over quality.
Still, if there's anyone's opinion that's worth paying attention to, it's his.
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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| Posted: 05/31/15 9:01 am ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
Assuming it's Dan Olson doing the rankings, he's by far the best informed guy in the business and has no obvious biases.
That said, like everyone, there are certain kinds of players he likes more than others, and he may or may not put more weight on quantity over quality.
Still, if there's anyone's opinion that's worth paying attention to, it's his. |
AMEN! I am in Kansas City at the USJN event right now and spoke with Dan for several hours on Friday. He is here...and he is out all the time watching kids in all sorts of different types of environments. Friday was a skills session that eventually got into 1 on 1, 3 on 3 and 5 on 5 situations. Saturday and Sunday are filled with AAU teams playing in a tournament.
He is on the road endlessly watching kids, whether it is now or during the school year. In fact, while I was sitting with him, he got a call from someone who is putting on an event with 6th-8th graders in a tri-state area...and he's going to go.
Dan doesn't have biases, isn't tied to a certain shoe company or event operator...he is a good guy. I think it says a lot that ESPN called him and asked him to take over their rankings.
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Oldfandepot2
Joined: 05 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 05/31/15 9:12 am ::: |
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| It is interesting I posted an inquiry about the recruitng sites and pretty much everyone thought that ESPN was the least credible especially because of the downgrade in resources leaving Dan pretty much on his own. Although Dan's ability to evaluate was never called into question other than the fact he could be too generous as evident by the increased number of players ranked 98 the fact remained he was and is a one man band and could not physically get around to see as many recruits as HG could in the past.
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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012
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| Posted: 06/01/15 9:34 am ::: |
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| I don't get why anyone cares about the number. The rankings basically show who the top players are, after the top 1 or 2, there is a bag of m n ms and they are awash for the the next bunch, basically all have different rankings from different groups depending on some preferences or even agendas, in some cases ie if you go and pay for their camps in some instances for example and so on it goes.
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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| Posted: 06/01/15 11:50 am ::: |
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| Oldfandepot2 wrote: |
| It is interesting I posted an inquiry about the recruitng sites and pretty much everyone thought that ESPN was the least credible especially because of the downgrade in resources leaving Dan pretty much on his own. Although Dan's ability to evaluate was never called into question other than the fact he could be too generous as evident by the increased number of players ranked 98 the fact remained he was and is a one man band and could not physically get around to see as many recruits as HG could in the past. |
I would venture that Dan himself saw as many kids, talked to more coaches, etc than those Hoopgurlz guys. And Dan has probably forgotten more about possible recruits than those other guys have ever known. No comparison...definitely an example of quality over quantity of people. The only national recruiting organization that can match Dan is Blue Star. Those 2 are far and away the best.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 06/01/15 12:20 pm ::: |
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| I would agree ... though I would claim that Hoopgurlz, in its prime, with five people out there, was doing a very good job. Granted, I'm not Dan Olson, but all of us involved were experienced and conscientious.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 06/01/15 12:30 pm ::: |
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| purduefanatic wrote: |
| The only national recruiting organization that can match Dan is Blue Star. |
Flynn's Blue Star? Seriously? It strikes me that it's a really close race between that and McCormick's ASGR for which is the most politicized "pay us to attend our many camps and play in our many tournaments and see your rankings skyrocket" service.
Oh, and Chris Hansen, of Prospects Nation, is affiliated with camp/tournament promoter Peach State too.
And on top of that, those guys have votes on some of the major AA and POY award panels too like the Naismith. No conflict of interest there, right?
It's really too bad Full Court stopped doing player and class rankings.
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Ladyvol777
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 06/01/15 3:27 pm ::: |
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| Tennessee may be # 13, but they got a player they have needed for a long time. Te'a Cooper was the best player out of this class for them.
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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| Posted: 06/01/15 4:05 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| purduefanatic wrote: |
| The only national recruiting organization that can match Dan is Blue Star. |
Flynn's Blue Star? Seriously? It strikes me that it's a really close race between that and McCormick's ASGR for which is the most politicized "pay us to attend our many camps and play in our many tournaments and see your rankings skyrocket" service. |
It's not the same Blue Star of the past so it's not really like it was...things have changed within the last 5-10 years. Prior to that, most definitely. They have a whole stable of former college coaches that go out during the summer and school year to evaluate and then all the thoughts go into the total evaluation.
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Durantula
Joined: 30 Mar 2013
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| Posted: 06/01/15 6:15 pm ::: |
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Prospects Nation is the most biased to me in that they have a ton of camps and events and push the kids up the rankings if they attend. Its easy to tell who they are pushing. They even have a service where you pay them and they will promote you on social media, they do this for teams too so basically it is not reliable to me. Blue Star I think is quite biased in that kids who play for Flynn's teams are always ranked way higher than they are by anyone else and its hard to have credibility when you just push your kids and aren't unbiased enough to note their flaws in relation to others in the same recruiting class.
All Star Girls Report seems the most professional and he is always at events based on his Twitter account. He seems to point out top players from all over and doesn't seem to have a geographic bias. The ESPN rankings with Olsen to me do not look good and its way too many 5 star players, its hard to even take it seriously.
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Oldfandepot2
Joined: 05 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 06/01/15 6:38 pm ::: |
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| It seems that many of the sites promote their own players. Case in point Te'a Cooper is ranked high on Peachtree, ProspectsNation and Fullcourt all Georgia based. Then Blue Star ranks Espinoza-Hunter fourth which I am sure has nothing to do with the fact she plays for the Philly Belles. Then HG last year with Wilson ranking her number one but had nothing to do with the fact they sponsored and televised her dog and pony show. Nothing at all folks. Want to buy a bridge.
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Durantula
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| Posted: 06/01/15 6:58 pm ::: |
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Aja Wilson was legitimately top 2 in the country by almost everyone, so ESPN putting her #1 is not biased to me. But here's the interesting thing. Prospects Nation had Kelsey Mitchell #1, and her team played in Prospect Nation events while Wilson's didn't. So little things like that you can point to and its too bad its not just based on talent. The people who run Prospects Nation even cover boys basketball scouting so to me they are stretching themselves too thin and if you aren't covering girls basketball with full focus then you cannot really truly evaluate the national landscape of girls basketball.
Peach State and Prospects Nation are the same, so their ranking of Cooper will be the same. Cooper was 4th in Full Court but I don't know if they can be biased when they have a geographically diverse pool of rankers. The Full Court Fresh 50 represents the top girls basketball recruits in the nation. Players are ranked based on college potential by an independent, respected panel of talent evaluators (with over 60 years of combined experience) consisting of Clay Kallam, Bob Corwin, Simmie Colson, Kelvin Powell and Kelly Kline. Rankings will be updated each spring after the high school season and again at the end of the summer after the NCAA viewing periods are complete.
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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| Posted: 06/01/15 7:44 pm ::: |
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| Durantula wrote: |
| EPurdue and Penn State are higher than I thought given their season but there's more than the recent season that goes into this stuff. UConn at 3 instead of 1 is a minor surprise given UConn's a recruiting juggernaut. |
I don't see why you would use the recent season as any type of indication since odds are most of the class, if not the entire class, signed before the season, so it's not like the recent season was any type of determining factor in them choosing the school they signed with.
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LadyLionsFan
Joined: 25 May 2015
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| Posted: 06/01/15 9:42 pm ::: |
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| Until the Italian star Cecilia Zandalasini signs on with a US school, I don't see how they can say final. Zandalasini is a 5 star, blue-chip 6-2 W and is rated as the #4 player in the 2015 class (should be #1 IMHO). Say if she went to UCLA for instance...the Bruins would jump from their current #10 ranking to close to a #1 ranking. So the rankings could still change some.
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Oldfandepot2
Joined: 05 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 06/02/15 10:30 am ::: |
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| Durantula wrote: |
Aja Wilson was legitimately top 2 in the country by almost everyone, so ESPN putting her #1 is not biased to me. But here's the interesting thing. Prospects Nation had Kelsey Mitchell #1, and her team played in Prospect Nation events while Wilson's didn't. So little things like that you can point to and its too bad its not just based on talent. The people who run Prospects Nation even cover boys basketball scouting so to me they are stretching themselves too thin and if you aren't covering girls basketball with full focus then you cannot really truly evaluate the national landscape of girls basketball.
Peach State and Prospects Nation are the same, so their ranking of Cooper will be the same. Cooper was 4th in Full Court but I don't know if they can be biased when they have a geographically diverse pool of rankers. The Full Court Fresh 50 represents the top girls basketball recruits in the nation. Players are ranked based on college potential by an independent, respected panel of talent evaluators (with over 60 years of combined experience) consisting of Clay Kallam, Bob Corwin, Simmie Colson, Kelvin Powell and Kelly Kline. Rankings will be updated each spring after the high school season and again at the end of the summer after the NCAA viewing periods are complete. |
Full Court which is also Georgia based is affiliated with Prospeectsnation and Peachtree thus the similar ranking of Cooper.Blue Star also has some impeccable evaluators such as Mel Greenberg the Hoops Guru. Though they evaluate does not necessarily mean they determine the site's ranking.
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Cave Canem!
We must listen to each other no matter how much it hurts. Bishop Desmond Tutu.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 06/02/15 11:52 am ::: |
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| Speaking of which, Prospects Nation has just released their new, updated, expanded 2016 player rankings.
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Oldfandepot2
Joined: 05 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 06/02/15 2:50 pm ::: |
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| Yes, you and Arti must be pleased to see Erin Boley move up to fourth and Jackie Young move into the seventh slot. Interesting to see that they dropped McCoy to eight, continue to punish the injured.
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Cave Canem!
We must listen to each other no matter how much it hurts. Bishop Desmond Tutu.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 06/02/15 3:07 pm ::: |
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| Oldfandepot2 wrote: |
| Durantula wrote: |
Aja Wilson was legitimately top 2 in the country by almost everyone, so ESPN putting her #1 is not biased to me. But here's the interesting thing. Prospects Nation had Kelsey Mitchell #1, and her team played in Prospect Nation events while Wilson's didn't. So little things like that you can point to and its too bad its not just based on talent. The people who run Prospects Nation even cover boys basketball scouting so to me they are stretching themselves too thin and if you aren't covering girls basketball with full focus then you cannot really truly evaluate the national landscape of girls basketball.
Peach State and Prospects Nation are the same, so their ranking of Cooper will be the same. Cooper was 4th in Full Court but I don't know if they can be biased when they have a geographically diverse pool of rankers. The Full Court Fresh 50 represents the top girls basketball recruits in the nation. Players are ranked based on college potential by an independent, respected panel of talent evaluators (with over 60 years of combined experience) consisting of Clay Kallam, Bob Corwin, Simmie Colson, Kelvin Powell and Kelly Kline. Rankings will be updated each spring after the high school season and again at the end of the summer after the NCAA viewing periods are complete. |
Full Court which is also Georgia based is affiliated with Prospeectsnation and Peachtree thus the similar ranking of Cooper.Blue Star also has some impeccable evaluators such as Mel Greenberg the Hoops Guru. Though they evaluate does not necessarily mean they determine the site's ranking. |
A couple notes:
Full Court Press no longer does prep rankings, as most of the writers mentioned above in the thread aren't active.
Full Court Press was never affiliated with ProspectNation or Peach Tree.
Though FCP did have a Southeast tilt in terms of geography, the group did its best to take into account national talent. (Sometimes, it hurts players if they are seen too often ... the flaws become magnified in the rankers' eyes.)
Blue Star definitely has the most people out there, but there's still a feeling that players affiliated with the group receive a boost in the rankings. Hard to say if that's true, though, without being in the discussions.
All in all, I'd take Dan Olson's ranking first with Blue Star a close second.
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ArtBest23
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| Posted: 06/02/15 4:30 pm ::: |
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| Oldfandepot2 wrote: |
| Yes, you and Arti must be pleased to see Erin Boley move up to fourth and Jackie Young move into the seventh slot. Interesting to see that they dropped McCoy to eight, continue to punish the injured. |
I don't think it's fair to call it "punishment".
Other players have improved their games. She hasn't and has to be assessed on her sophomore and few junior games performance. You can't just assume some "standard" improvement curve. Some players don't. So that she may have been better than others after her soph yr doesn't mean she still would be after her jr year even if she had played.
If she wasn't 6'4", she probably would have dropped a lot more.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 06/03/15 9:30 am ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Oldfandepot2 wrote: |
| Yes, you and Arti must be pleased to see Erin Boley move up to fourth and Jackie Young move into the seventh slot. Interesting to see that they dropped McCoy to eight, continue to punish the injured. |
I don't think it's fair to call it "punishment".
Other players have improved their games. She hasn't and has to be assessed on her sophomore and few junior games performance. You can't just assume some "standard" improvement curve. Some players don't. So that she may have been better than others after her soph yr doesn't mean she still would be after her jr year even if she had played.
If she wasn't 6'4", she probably would have dropped a lot more. |
Some players are as good as they're going to be at age 16; others don't top out until 25.
You just never know, which is why the hardest thing about recruiting/drafting is figuring out when a player will stop improving.
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shadowboxer
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| Posted: 06/04/15 8:00 am ::: |
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| For the one year it was attempted, when the recruiting services put out a top 100(?) list together, that consensus rating system seemed the most equitable way to approach this yearly rating of players. Wish they would return to a similar format again.
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