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SBT says Jewell Loyd to Enter WNBA Draft
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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 04/09/15 12:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

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pilight



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PostPosted: 04/09/15 12:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
Rent-a-player has been a fact of life in MBB forever


It's not really renting when you don't pay them anything. It's more like indentured servitude until the NBA says they can come play for money.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 04/09/15 12:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
Wonder if Natalie Achonwa's situation had anything to do with it?


You are referring to being injured as a senior?


summertime blues



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PostPosted: 04/09/15 12:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
summertime blues wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
SueFavor wrote:
Why all the judgement?

Why not take the facts just as they are?

Jewell Loyd did not ask any of you for your opinions on her decision.


+__________________________

The top ten college players in the NBA draft last year were all underclassmen. Did I miss the thread ripping Andrew Wiggins for his decision? What a bunch of hypocrites.


Rent-a-player has been a fact of life in MBB forever. So has the recruitment of academically poorly and unqualified male athletes, as the pro leagues use the colleges as their de facto minor leagues. WBB has always been different. Are we required to accept and approve this just because it is a "fact"? I don't approve of the way men's pro sports use the colleges so why should I approve of women's pro sport starting the same damn thing?


So women should be denied the opportunity to go get paid to play if that's their choice and should be forced to stay in school for your entertainment pleasure because you don't like them leaving? Yeah that sounds like a good answer.
Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes


The NFL, NBA and WNBA need to do what MLB has done for many years, support their own damn minor league system. And I know you are arguing the other way just because. Razz



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beknighted



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PostPosted: 04/09/15 12:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'd rather they all stayed - men and women - for four years, but that's purely about my pleasure as a fan. I can't find it in myself to criticize someone for a decision like this about her own life, particularly when the money is finally good enough for it to make sense to have a career as a professional basketball player whether or not you have a degree.

I hope that Notre Dame fans will continue to embrace her (or, at least, understand that she doesn't owe them another year). She did a lot for the school in her time there.


bballjunkie



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PostPosted: 04/09/15 12:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Best of luck Jewell. Make the most of your window of opportunity, it's yours no one else's.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 04/09/15 12:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
The NFL, NBA and WNBA need to do what MLB has done for many years, support their own damn minor league system. And I know you are arguing the other way just because. Razz


How did you put that? You say it's perfectly ok for me to say "in my opinion, that is a stupid comment," right?

If you'd actually ever paid any attention to what I have consistently said it's that amateurism in college sports should be maintained, and that any athlete who wants to and is good enough to get paid to play should be free to do so at any time. But that's right, my comments are just to argue the other way from you. Thanks for the really really good laugh.

The only problem here is that the WNBA has the worst, most restrictive, most anti-competitive, most protectionist policy of any sports league. No other league - not even the NFL - requires you to normally wait until your college class graduates. But that's what the WNBA players association's CBA does. After all, can't have a bunch of crappy veterans losing their jobs to better rookies.

It's Jewell's choice and her choice alone. She doesn't owe you an explanation, and she sure as hell doesn't owe you another year of free entertainment. The only tiny group of people with any standing at all to object to this are her 12 returning teammates. Everyone else should just butt out.


summertime blues



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PostPosted: 04/09/15 12:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
summertime blues wrote:
The NFL, NBA and WNBA need to do what MLB has done for many years, support their own damn minor league system. And I know you are arguing the other way just because. Razz


How did you put that? You say it's perfectly ok for me to say "in my opinion, that is a stupid comment," right?

If you'd actually ever paid any attention to what I have consistently said it's that amateurism in college sports should be maintained, and that any athlete who wants to and is good enough to get paid to play should be free to do so at any time. But that's right, my comments are just to argue the other way from you. Thanks for the really really good laugh.

The only problem here is that the WNBA has the worst, most restrictive, most anti-competitive, most protectionist policy of any sports league. No other league - not even the NFL - requires you to normally wait until your college class graduates. But that's what the WNBA players association's CBA does. After all, can't have a bunch of crappy veterans losing their jobs to better rookies.

It's Jewell's choice and her choice alone. She doesn't owe you an explanation, and she sure as hell doesn't owe you another year of free entertainment. The only tiny group of people with any standing at all to object to this are her 12 returning teammates. Everyone else should just butt out.


I never said Jewell didn't have a right to her own decision. However, I reserve my right to say that in my opinion it is not a particularly smart one. I even have the right to say that I think it is a stupid decision that she *may* come to regret. Of course, she may not. It's her life. I would not make that decision, and I would not encourage my own child to make the same one. In saying that, I am not objecting to her decision, I am merely stating an opinion about it, an opinion I have every right to state. And regardless of what you may think, it has nothing to do with my "entertainment", as you so *politely* state it. I enjoy watching Notre Dame, but I am not a particular Notre Dame fan. So please take your Domer defensiveness and just back off.



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ball4life



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PostPosted: 04/09/15 12:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

She probably asked Kobe for his opinion on the matter.


purduefanatic



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PostPosted: 04/09/15 1:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
It seems like she's throwing away what could be a great legacy at ND for some quick money.

She would go down as one of the most beloved and honored athletes at ND. They'd put her number in the rafters and she'd have a place in the record books (and hearts of ND fans) for a long time.

Now, not so much.


Quick money? I would swear there was a phrase that said something about striking when the iron was hot. She loves basketball and is now in a position to turn that love/passion into money and a career. Isn't that what any parent wishes for their child? In many cases the degree is what leads to that but in her case, it isn't necessary. How on earth can we fault someone for chasing their dreams??

On another note, how many times do you hear about a senior getting injured and it affecting their future? It happens quite a bit in all sports.

What is her family situation? Maybe mom and dad could use a little help...maybe something else is going in her life...none of us know and therefore to rip her for leaving seems to be very inappropriate to me.

Lastly, she can always go back and get her degree. It's not like she is forfeiting that and can never get it back.

Anyway, good for her. She chased her dream and is about to realize it. Congrats Jewell Loyd!


PUmatty



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PostPosted: 04/09/15 1:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I am not sure I buy this idea that she needs to get her degree later. In another thread, Richyy compared her to Deanna Nolan, which I think is a pretty good comparison. So let's assume she has a career like Deanna Nolan. Then lets assume she is able to take slightly more advantage of endorsement money for a variety of reasons (its 15 years later, she's more traditionally attractive in the eyes of advertisers, she has a relationship with Diggins, whatever). That's enough money to never have to work again. It isn't enough to be rich forever, but she would be set up just fine with no college degree.


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PostPosted: 04/09/15 1:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
summertime blues wrote:
The NFL, NBA and WNBA need to do what MLB has done for many years, support their own damn minor league system. And I know you are arguing the other way just because. Razz


How did you put that? You say it's perfectly ok for me to say "in my opinion, that is a stupid comment," right?

If you'd actually ever paid any attention to what I have consistently said it's that amateurism in college sports should be maintained, and that any athlete who wants to and is good enough to get paid to play should be free to do so at any time. But that's right, my comments are just to argue the other way from you. Thanks for the really really good laugh.

The only problem here is that the WNBA has the worst, most restrictive, most anti-competitive, most protectionist policy of any sports league. No other league - not even the NFL - requires you to normally wait until your college class graduates. But that's what the WNBA players association's CBA does. After all, can't have a bunch of crappy veterans losing their jobs to better rookies.

It's Jewell's choice and her choice alone. She doesn't owe you an explanation, and she sure as hell doesn't owe you another year of free entertainment. The only tiny group of people with any standing at all to object to this are her 12 returning teammates. Everyone else should just butt out.



Her former teammates spend more time w/ her than anyone and are like family. They should be happy for her in every possible way. I doubt they'd be so petty and selfish as to "object" to her decision to move on w/ her life.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 04/09/15 2:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
summertime blues wrote:
The NFL, NBA and WNBA need to do what MLB has done for many years, support their own damn minor league system. And I know you are arguing the other way just because. Razz


How did you put that? You say it's perfectly ok for me to say "in my opinion, that is a stupid comment," right?

If you'd actually ever paid any attention to what I have consistently said it's that amateurism in college sports should be maintained, and that any athlete who wants to and is good enough to get paid to play should be free to do so at any time. But that's right, my comments are just to argue the other way from you. Thanks for the really really good laugh.

The only problem here is that the WNBA has the worst, most restrictive, most anti-competitive, most protectionist policy of any sports league. No other league - not even the NFL - requires you to normally wait until your college class graduates. But that's what the WNBA players association's CBA does. After all, can't have a bunch of crappy veterans losing their jobs to better rookies.

It's Jewell's choice and her choice alone. She doesn't owe you an explanation, and she sure as hell doesn't owe you another year of free entertainment. The only tiny group of people with any standing at all to object to this are her 12 returning teammates. Everyone else should just butt out.



Her former teammates spend more time w/ her than anyone and are like family. They should be happy for her in every possible way. I doubt they'd be so petty and selfish as to "object" to her decision to move on w/ her life.


I never said they would object. I said they were the only ones with any standing to object. My guess is they will be fully supportive.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 04/09/15 2:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
I am not sure I buy this idea that she needs to get her degree later. In another thread, Richyy compared her to Deanna Nolan, which I think is a pretty good comparison. So let's assume she has a career like Deanna Nolan. Then lets assume she is able to take slightly more advantage of endorsement money for a variety of reasons (its 15 years later, she's more traditionally attractive in the eyes of advertisers, she has a relationship with Diggins, whatever). That's enough money to never have to work again. It isn't enough to be rich forever, but she would be set up just fine with no college degree.



There is a value in education for education's sake.

Troy Murphy made $70 Million from his NBA salary, not counting endorsements. He didn't need to finish his degree, but that's what he's doing. Adrian Dantley was NBA Rookie of the Year. He was set for life. He didn't need to finish his degree, but he did.

I don't think the decision to finish school later is correctly assessed as a matter of "necessity".


cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 04/09/15 2:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
summertime blues wrote:
The NFL, NBA and WNBA need to do what MLB has done for many years, support their own damn minor league system. And I know you are arguing the other way just because. Razz


How did you put that? You say it's perfectly ok for me to say "in my opinion, that is a stupid comment," right?

If you'd actually ever paid any attention to what I have consistently said it's that amateurism in college sports should be maintained, and that any athlete who wants to and is good enough to get paid to play should be free to do so at any time. But that's right, my comments are just to argue the other way from you. Thanks for the really really good laugh.

The only problem here is that the WNBA has the worst, most restrictive, most anti-competitive, most protectionist policy of any sports league. No other league - not even the NFL - requires you to normally wait until your college class graduates. But that's what the WNBA players association's CBA does. After all, can't have a bunch of crappy veterans losing their jobs to better rookies.

It's Jewell's choice and her choice alone. She doesn't owe you an explanation, and she sure as hell doesn't owe you another year of free entertainment. The only tiny group of people with any standing at all to object to this are her 12 returning teammates. Everyone else should just butt out.



Her former teammates spend more time w/ her than anyone and are like family. They should be happy for her in every possible way. I doubt they'd be so petty and selfish as to "object" to her decision to move on w/ her life.


I never said they would object. I said they were the only ones with any standing to object. My guess is they will be fully supportive.



I never said you did.

I disagree they have any objection to stand on.



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PostPosted: 04/09/15 3:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
I am not sure I buy this idea that she needs to get her degree later. In another thread, Richyy compared her to Deanna Nolan, which I think is a pretty good comparison. So let's assume she has a career like Deanna Nolan. Then lets assume she is able to take slightly more advantage of endorsement money for a variety of reasons (its 15 years later, she's more traditionally attractive in the eyes of advertisers, she has a relationship with Diggins, whatever). That's enough money to never have to work again. It isn't enough to be rich forever, but she would be set up just fine with no college degree.


Truth be told, there are a lot of jobs for former star college athletes that don't require a college degree. The most obvious job that (usually) does is college coaching. I remember that Sue Wicks had to go back and get her last few credits before she could join the Rutgers staff.

Edited to add:

Seeing the comments above about getting the degree because you want to get it, I totally agree - and that's a valid reason to get one, too. Heck, Shaquille O'Neal, for whom there really couldn't be any benefit other than the psychic kind, got his degree, then got an M.B.A. online (okay, that might actually have more than psychic benefit) and eventually an Ed. D. (And Prince is reported to be working on finishing hers at Rutgers now that she's been traded to New York).


GEF34



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PostPosted: 04/09/15 3:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

beknighted wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
I am not sure I buy this idea that she needs to get her degree later. In another thread, Richyy compared her to Deanna Nolan, which I think is a pretty good comparison. So let's assume she has a career like Deanna Nolan. Then lets assume she is able to take slightly more advantage of endorsement money for a variety of reasons (its 15 years later, she's more traditionally attractive in the eyes of advertisers, she has a relationship with Diggins, whatever). That's enough money to never have to work again. It isn't enough to be rich forever, but she would be set up just fine with no college degree.


Truth be told, there are a lot of jobs for former star college athletes that don't require a college degree. The most obvious job that (usually) does is college coaching. I remember that Sue Wicks had to go back and get her last few credits before she could join the Rutgers staff.


To me the most obvious job would be broadcasting.

I don't recall any former players becoming college coaches without a degree. If I recall didn't Prairie View A&M make Cynthia Cooper finish her degree before naming her head coach.


summertime blues



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PostPosted: 04/09/15 3:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

IIRC, Shaq went back and finished his, although Lord knows HE didn't need to, "because he had promised his momma he would." Also I think he had, somewhere along the line, made a promise to himself.

At Tennessee, it came to be a tradition....every player that played 4 years for Pat graduated. Most who didn't play the full 4 also graduated, including the JUCO transfers Bobbitt and Auguste, and an awful lot of them graduated in 3 years. I remember more than one year when she had multiple grad students on the team. It is traditional for the girls to sign their names on a column in the practice facility when they graduate, and that column is quite a wonder to behold. The tradition of graduating continues under Holly Warlick. Pictures are taken every year of that year's grads from the team signing their names to the column. Izzy, Cierra, and Ariel will sign this year.



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PostPosted: 04/09/15 3:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GEF34 wrote:
beknighted wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
I am not sure I buy this idea that she needs to get her degree later. In another thread, Richyy compared her to Deanna Nolan, which I think is a pretty good comparison. So let's assume she has a career like Deanna Nolan. Then lets assume she is able to take slightly more advantage of endorsement money for a variety of reasons (its 15 years later, she's more traditionally attractive in the eyes of advertisers, she has a relationship with Diggins, whatever). That's enough money to never have to work again. It isn't enough to be rich forever, but she would be set up just fine with no college degree.


Truth be told, there are a lot of jobs for former star college athletes that don't require a college degree. The most obvious job that (usually) does is college coaching. I remember that Sue Wicks had to go back and get her last few credits before she could join the Rutgers staff.


To me the most obvious job would be broadcasting.

I don't recall any former players becoming college coaches without a degree. If I recall didn't Prairie View A&M make Cynthia Cooper finish her degree before naming her head coach.


We agree - What I was *trying* to say (not very clearly) was that the most obvious job that requires a degree is coaching.


GEF34



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PostPosted: 04/09/15 4:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
IIRC, Shaq went back and finished his, although Lord knows HE didn't need to, "because he had promised his momma he would." Also I think he had, somewhere along the line, made a promise to himself.

At Tennessee, it came to be a tradition....every player that played 4 years for Pat graduated. Most who didn't play the full 4 also graduated, including the JUCO transfers Bobbitt and Auguste, and an awful lot of them graduated in 3 years. I remember more than one year when she had multiple grad students on the team. It is traditional for the girls to sign their names on a column in the practice facility when they graduate, and that column is quite a wonder to behold. The tradition of graduating continues under Holly Warlick. Pictures are taken every year of that year's grads from the team signing their names to the column. Izzy, Cierra, and Ariel will sign this year.


Slightly related, didn't Tamika Catchings leave Tennessee with a Bachelor's and Master's in 4 years?

Edited: I just looked at her WNBA bio, it seems she was finished with her Bachelor's degree in 3 1/2 years, started her Master's program that last semester as she finished out her eligibility and she finished her Master's while she was playing in the WNBA.

And I've always been impressed by Nicky Anosike, she graduated with 3 Bachelor's degrees in 4 years.


GEF34



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PostPosted: 04/09/15 4:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

beknighted wrote:
GEF34 wrote:
beknighted wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
I am not sure I buy this idea that she needs to get her degree later. In another thread, Richyy compared her to Deanna Nolan, which I think is a pretty good comparison. So let's assume she has a career like Deanna Nolan. Then lets assume she is able to take slightly more advantage of endorsement money for a variety of reasons (its 15 years later, she's more traditionally attractive in the eyes of advertisers, she has a relationship with Diggins, whatever). That's enough money to never have to work again. It isn't enough to be rich forever, but she would be set up just fine with no college degree.


Truth be told, there are a lot of jobs for former star college athletes that don't require a college degree. The most obvious job that (usually) does is college coaching. I remember that Sue Wicks had to go back and get her last few credits before she could join the Rutgers staff.


To me the most obvious job would be broadcasting.

I don't recall any former players becoming college coaches without a degree. If I recall didn't Prairie View A&M make Cynthia Cooper finish her degree before naming her head coach.


We agree - What I was *trying* to say (not very clearly) was that the most obvious job that requires a degree is coaching.


Gotcha, I see what you were trying to say now.


summertime blues



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PostPosted: 04/09/15 4:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GEF34 wrote:
summertime blues wrote:
IIRC, Shaq went back and finished his, although Lord knows HE didn't need to, "because he had promised his momma he would." Also I think he had, somewhere along the line, made a promise to himself.

At Tennessee, it came to be a tradition....every player that played 4 years for Pat graduated. Most who didn't play the full 4 also graduated, including the JUCO transfers Bobbitt and Auguste, and an awful lot of them graduated in 3 years. I remember more than one year when she had multiple grad students on the team. It is traditional for the girls to sign their names on a column in the practice facility when they graduate, and that column is quite a wonder to behold. The tradition of graduating continues under Holly Warlick. Pictures are taken every year of that year's grads from the team signing their names to the column. Izzy, Cierra, and Ariel will sign this year.


Slightly related, didn't Tamika Catchings leave Tennessee with a Bachelor's and Master's in 4 years?

And I've always been impressed by Nicky Anosike, she graduated with 3 Bachelor's degrees in 4 years.


Catchings did. I was thinking Nicky got a Master's too, but I could be wrong there.

Catchings and Semeka Randall both graduated in 3 years. Kristen "Ace" Clement, who had come in the same freshman class with them, was a little miffed when she found out that they were on track to do that. "Why didn't you tell me that was the plan?" she fussed. "I could have done it with you!" She piled it on over the summer and graduated the next semester.



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It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
GEF34



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PostPosted: 04/09/15 4:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
GEF34 wrote:
summertime blues wrote:
IIRC, Shaq went back and finished his, although Lord knows HE didn't need to, "because he had promised his momma he would." Also I think he had, somewhere along the line, made a promise to himself.

At Tennessee, it came to be a tradition....every player that played 4 years for Pat graduated. Most who didn't play the full 4 also graduated, including the JUCO transfers Bobbitt and Auguste, and an awful lot of them graduated in 3 years. I remember more than one year when she had multiple grad students on the team. It is traditional for the girls to sign their names on a column in the practice facility when they graduate, and that column is quite a wonder to behold. The tradition of graduating continues under Holly Warlick. Pictures are taken every year of that year's grads from the team signing their names to the column. Izzy, Cierra, and Ariel will sign this year.


Slightly related, didn't Tamika Catchings leave Tennessee with a Bachelor's and Master's in 4 years?

And I've always been impressed by Nicky Anosike, she graduated with 3 Bachelor's degrees in 4 years.


Catchings did. I was thinking Nicky got a Master's too, but I could be wrong there.

Catchings and Semeka Randall both graduated in 3 years. Kristen "Ace" Clement, who had come in the same freshman class with them, was a little miffed when she found out that they were on track to do that. "Why didn't you tell me that was the plan?" she fussed. "I could have done it with you!" She piled it on over the summer and graduated the next semester.


When I read your post about Nicky getting a Master's I wouldn't be surprised if my face looked like this Shocked

Nicky is a very remarkable woman, I wouldn't be surprised if she got a Master's in that time as well, or even if she has one now that she got after her time at Tennessee.


pwhite66



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PostPosted: 04/09/15 4:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

When Marianne Stanley left Old Dominion in 1987, 28-year-old Nancy Lieberman expressed interest in the position. But since she didn't have her degree, ODU wouldn't even consider her.

Old Dominion wound up "settling" for Wendy Larry.

Lieberman, who is perhaps the Godmother of women's hoops stars leaving college early to turn pro, exited ODU nine hours short (according to her) of getting her degree in 1980 to play for pay. She finally got the degree in 2000.


tfan



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PostPosted: 04/09/15 8:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:


It seems like she's throwing away what could be a great legacy at ND for some quick money.

She would go down as one of the most beloved and honored athletes at ND. They'd put her number in the rafters and she'd have a place in the record books (and hearts of ND fans) for a long time.

Now, not so much.


Right. Because Adrian Dantley isn't already in the Ring of Honor and John Shumate and Troy Murphy aren't beloved and their names won't be joining Dantley's soon. Right, Notre Dame fans have such a track record of turning their backs on great players who leave early for the pros. Yeah. That must be it. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes


Jewell is one of the greatest WBB players ever to play for ND. That doesn't change one bit. If you choose to turn your back on her, that's your choice. But it'll be a lonely one. She certainly doesn't owe you or anyone else here any explanation for her very personal decision.


The fans of the Notre Dame men's team are not the same fans as of the woman's team. Women's basketball fans are not used to players leaving early, so will reflect on it differently than men's fans. The articles recently have listed Parker and Prince (to Europe) as two who previously did it. But Parker was at Tennessee 4 years and on track to graduate and only passed up on an extra year of athletic eligibility due to a red-shirt year. It's unlikely that Lloyd will have the same place in the hearts of Notre Dame fans that she would have had she not left early. But fans aren't going to "turn their backs on her" as you melodramatically put it.




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