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pilight
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purduefanatic
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 Posted: 04/04/15 6:58 pm ::: |
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| Wow. I don't usually think about the non-seniors that could declare for the WNBA draft. Zahui B, Loyd or Romero would all cause some waves if any were to leave early.
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GEF34
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| Posted: 04/04/15 7:30 pm ::: |
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| purduefanatic wrote: |
| Wow. I don't usually think about the non-seniors that could declare for the WNBA draft. Zahui B, Loyd or Romero would all cause some waves if any were to leave early. |
Leticia Romero is not eligible for the draft, she doesn't fall into the "international players" category because she attends a college in the United States.
It doesn't typically happen, but it has happened in the past, and it was talked about in 2012 when Elena Delle Donne was eligible to enter the draft.
I don't expect Jewell Loyd to enter, but I wouldn't be surprised if Amanda Zahui B. entered, although as I have mentioned, playing for the Sweden National team may be a priority for her, so the WNBA may be put on the back burner.
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purduefanatic
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| Posted: 04/04/15 9:07 pm ::: |
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| GEF34 wrote: |
Leticia Romero is not eligible for the draft, she doesn't fall into the "international players" category because she attends a college in the United States. |
I'm confused. Zahui B attends a college in the US and appears to be eligible but Romero isn't? Is it because she's a transfer or something?
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pilight
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| Posted: 04/04/15 9:14 pm ::: |
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| purduefanatic wrote: |
| GEF34 wrote: |
Leticia Romero is not eligible for the draft, she doesn't fall into the "international players" category because she attends a college in the United States. |
I'm confused. Zahui B attends a college in the US and appears to be eligible but Romero isn't? Is it because she's a transfer or something? |
Zahui B turns 22 this year. Romero does not.
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GEF34
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| Posted: 04/04/15 9:16 pm ::: |
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| purduefanatic wrote: |
| GEF34 wrote: |
Leticia Romero is not eligible for the draft, she doesn't fall into the "international players" category because she attends a college in the United States. |
I'm confused. Zahui B attends a college in the US and appears to be eligible but Romero isn't? Is it because she's a transfer or something? |
If you turn 22 the year of the draft you are eligible to enter the draft. Amanda Zahui B. was born in 1993, Leticia Romero was born in 1995.
That is the rule for Americans or internationals that play in college in the United States. That is also why you don't see many American's leave college early, as many don't turn 22 the year of the draft before their 4th year of college.
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purduefanatic
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| Posted: 04/04/15 9:58 pm ::: |
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| Ah, thank you. I appreciate the clarification.
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sammieee
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| Posted: 04/05/15 5:46 am ::: |
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I don't think she will come out early...but
Assuming she turned pro now and is the #1 pick...in 2 years, she'll make close to 100k in the WNBA (I believe 48k or so is what the #1 pick makes the first year..). And then she'll could probably make 200k a season overseas in Europe (especially since she is European). You are looking at 500k+ that she would be passing up on. And after 4 years, she'll be eligible to make the max in the W. She's also older, so waiting till she's 24 to turn pro = less years to earn money, and she won't be able to earn max money in the W till she's 28.
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NickDMB
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| Posted: 04/05/15 8:55 am ::: |
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| This could work out really well for Seattle (who get a player who might be better to build a team around than any of the other options) and for Tulsa (who would likely pick KML, who I think is a really good fit for their needs).
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scullyfu
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pilight
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Shades
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GlennMacGrady
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| Posted: 04/05/15 11:55 am ::: |
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For those who prefer to do their own research, below the break is the WNBA eligibility section from the current WNBA Collective Bargaining Agreement. (I've broken out a few long sentences into paragraphs for easier reading.)
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ARTICLE XIII
PLAYER ELIGIBILITY AND WNBA DRAFT
Section 1. Player Eligibility.
(a) Only players who are women are eligible to play in the WNBA.
(b) A player is eligible to be selected in the WNBA Draft if she:
(i) will be at least twenty-two (22) years old during the calendar year in which such Draft is held and she either has no remaining intercollegiate eligibility or renounces her remaining intercollegiate eligibility by written notice to the WNBA at least ten (10) days prior to such Draft;
(ii) has graduated from a four-year college or university prior to such Draft, or “is to graduate” from such college or university within the three (3)-month period following such Draft and she either has no remaining intercollegiate eligibility or renounces her remaining intercollegiate eligibility by written notice to the WNBA at least ten (10) days prior to such Draft[;] or
(iii) attended a four-year college or university, her original class in such college or university has already been graduated or “is to graduate” within the three (3)-month period following such Draft, and she either has no remaining intercollegiate eligibility or renounces her remaining intercollegiate eligibility by written notice to the WNBA at least ten (10) days prior to such Draft.
For purposes of subsection (b)(ii) above, “is to graduate” shall mean that such player would graduate from the college or university she is currently enrolled in if she were to successfully complete the coursework she is enrolled in at the time of such Draft and such course load is commensurate with the previous course loads she has successfully completed.
For purposes of subsection (b)(iii) above, “is to graduate” shall mean that the majority of the students in such class would graduate from such college or university upon successful completion of the coursework the members of such class are enrolled in at the time of such Draft.
(c) A player who: (i) is competing in a NCAA season (including any NCAA Tournament) during the period that begins ten (10) days prior to a Draft; (ii) has remaining intercollegiate eligibility beyond the season in which she is currently competing; and (iii) is otherwise eligible for selection in such Draft, may make herself eligible for such Draft by renouncing her remaining intercollegiate eligibility within the period beginning at the conclusion of her final NCAA game in the season in which she is currently competing and ending twenty-four hours thereafter (but in no event later than three (3) hours prior to the Draft).
(d) Notwithstanding Section 1(b) above, an international player is eligible to be selected in the WNBA Draft if she will be at least 20years old during the calendar year in which such Draft is held.
(e) For purposes of this Section 1, an “international player” means any person born and residing outside the United States who participates in the game of basketball as an amateur or a professional. An international player who exercises intercollegiate basketball eligibility in the United States shall be subject to the eligibility rules set forth in Section 1(b)(iii) above.
(f) No player may sign a Contract or play in the WNBA unless she has been eligible for selection in at least one (1) WNBA Draft.
(g) No player shall be eligible for selection in more than two (2) WNBA Drafts. |
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ArtBest23
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| Posted: 04/05/15 12:05 pm ::: |
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There is an interesting quirk there. Paragraph (e) on intl players who attend US colleges only refers to 1(b)(iii), not to (i) or (ii).
Literally read that would seem to indicate an intl player is not eligible until her class graduates and cannot avail herself of either the "age 22" rule or the "early graduation" rules of (i) and (ii).
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pilight
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ripleydc
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| Posted: 04/06/15 1:31 pm ::: |
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Wow, if this unofficial source is true, that's B1G news!
Frankly, I wouldn't blame her. Her stock is very high right now. Should translate into some serious $$ overseas, not to mention a higher WNBA salary if she's the overall #1 pick.
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ArtBest23
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| Posted: 04/06/15 1:35 pm ::: |
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| I'd still be curious to hear an explanation of why she can rely on the "age 22" exception of Article XIII Section 1(b)(i) when paragraph (e) simply says "An international player who exercises intercollegiate basketball eligibility in the United States shall be subject to the eligibility rules set forth in Section 1(b)(iii) above. " and says nothing about 1(b)(i).
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22
Joined: 31 Mar 2015
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| Posted: 04/06/15 1:52 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| I'd still be curious to hear an explanation of why she can rely on the "age 22" eexception of Article XIII Section 1(b)(i) when paragraph (e) simply says "An international player who exercises intercollegiate basketball eligibility in the United States shall be subject to the eligibility rules set forth in Section 1(b)(iii) above. " and says nothing about 1(b)(i). |
(d) says notwitstanding (all of) section 1(b), international players --as defined in (e) are eligible at 20.
So she doesn't even need to be 22, no?
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 04/06/15 2:33 pm ::: |
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| 22 wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| I'd still be curious to hear an explanation of why she can rely on the "age 22" eexception of Article XIII Section 1(b)(i) when paragraph (e) simply says "An international player who exercises intercollegiate basketball eligibility in the United States shall be subject to the eligibility rules set forth in Section 1(b)(iii) above. " and says nothing about 1(b)(i). |
(d) says notwitstanding (all of) section 1(b), international players --as defined in (e) are eligible at 20.
So she doesn't even need to be 22, no? |
Not exactly. (e) defines "international player" as someone "born and residing outside the United States who participates in the game of basketball as an amateur or a professional." It then continues that " An international player who exercises intercollegiate basketball eligibility in the United States shall be subject to the eligibility rules set forth in Section 1(b)(iii) above."
Since Zahui B exercises basketball eligibility in the US, she is governed by Section 1(b)(iii).
It's kind of like the baseball draft rules. A high school player is eligible if they have graduated from high school and have not yet attended college. But if they attend a four year college they aren't eligible until they have completed their junior year or are at least 21 years old.
An international player can be drafted in the WNBA at age 20 if they only play in Europe, but if they play for a US college then they are subject to the collegiate eligibility rules. My question is whether that includes all the college eligibility rules, or only the "graduating class" rule as the text suggests.
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pilight
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GlennMacGrady
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| Posted: 04/06/15 2:57 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| 22 wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| I'd still be curious to hear an explanation of why she can rely on the "age 22" eexception of Article XIII Section 1(b)(i) when paragraph (e) simply says "An international player who exercises intercollegiate basketball eligibility in the United States shall be subject to the eligibility rules set forth in Section 1(b)(iii) above. " and says nothing about 1(b)(i). |
(d) says notwitstanding (all of) section 1(b), international players --as defined in (e) are eligible at 20.
So she doesn't even need to be 22, no? |
Not exactly. (e) defines "international player" as someone "born and residing outside the United States who participates in the game of basketball as an amateur or a professional." It then continues that " An international player who exercises intercollegiate basketball eligibility in the United States shall be subject to the eligibility rules set forth in Section 1(b)(iii) above."
Since Zahui B exercises basketball eligibility in the US, she is governed by Section 1(b)(iii).
It's kind of like the baseball draft rules. A high school player is eligible if they have graduated from high school and have not yet attended college. But if they attend a four year college they aren't eligible until they have completed their junior year or are at least 21 years old.
An international player can be drafted in the WNBA at age 20 if they only play in Europe, but if they play for a US college then they are subject to the collegiate eligibility rules. My question is whether that includes all the college eligibility rules, or only the "graduating class" rule as the text suggests. |
As an object lesson for other and more important issues, Art and 22 have two interpretive choices. Each can:
1. Struggle as best they can to apply the literal words of the contract to the international player.
-- OR --
2. Choose to interpret the words in accordance with their personal policy preferences for international players. They can rationalize this by purporting to find a "deep structure" within the "entirety of the contract", which reveals to them the "true intent of the signatories" notwithstanding the actual words used in the contract (= statute = Constitution).
In either case, both Art and 22 will be qualified to sit on the United States Supreme Court.
How about a different question. If AZB declares, gets drafted, and then decides she doesn't want to go into the W, can she just chuck the whole draft thing, go back to school next year, and enter the draft again in a later year? |
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 04/06/15 3:04 pm ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| 22 wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| I'd still be curious to hear an explanation of why she can rely on the "age 22" eexception of Article XIII Section 1(b)(i) when paragraph (e) simply says "An international player who exercises intercollegiate basketball eligibility in the United States shall be subject to the eligibility rules set forth in Section 1(b)(iii) above. " and says nothing about 1(b)(i). |
(d) says notwitstanding (all of) section 1(b), international players --as defined in (e) are eligible at 20.
So she doesn't even need to be 22, no? |
Not exactly. (e) defines "international player" as someone "born and residing outside the United States who participates in the game of basketball as an amateur or a professional." It then continues that " An international player who exercises intercollegiate basketball eligibility in the United States shall be subject to the eligibility rules set forth in Section 1(b)(iii) above."
Since Zahui B exercises basketball eligibility in the US, she is governed by Section 1(b)(iii).
It's kind of like the baseball draft rules. A high school player is eligible if they have graduated from high school and have not yet attended college. But if they attend a four year college they aren't eligible until they have completed their junior year or are at least 21 years old.
An international player can be drafted in the WNBA at age 20 if they only play in Europe, but if they play for a US college then they are subject to the collegiate eligibility rules. My question is whether that includes all the college eligibility rules, or only the "graduating class" rule as the text suggests. |
As an object lesson for other and more important issues, Art and 22 have two interpretive choices. Each can:
1. Struggle as best they can to apply the literal words of the contract to the international player.
-- OR --
2. Choose to interpret the words in accordance with their personal policy preferences for international players. They can rationalize this by purporting to find a "deep structure" within the "entirety of the contract", which reveals to them the "true intent of the signatories" notwithstanding the actual words used in the contract (= statute = Constitution).
In either case, both Art and 22 will be qualified to sit on the United States Supreme Court.
How about a different question. If AZB declares, gets drafted, and then decides she doesn't want to go into the W, can she just chuck the whole draft thing, go back to school next year, and enter the draft again in a later year? |
So instead of being snide, why don't you give your interpretation of the rule. It seems pretty plain on its face. How do you read it?
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 04/06/15 3:20 pm ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| How about a different question. If AZB declares, gets drafted, and then decides she doesn't want to go into the W, can she just chuck the whole draft thing, go back to school next year, and enter the draft again in a later year? |
No, she has to sign a form renouncing her eligibility in order to be eligible for the draft.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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| Posted: 04/06/15 3:30 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| 22 wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| I'd still be curious to hear an explanation of why she can rely on the "age 22" eexception of Article XIII Section 1(b)(i) when paragraph (e) simply says "An international player who exercises intercollegiate basketball eligibility in the United States shall be subject to the eligibility rules set forth in Section 1(b)(iii) above. " and says nothing about 1(b)(i). |
(d) says notwitstanding (all of) section 1(b), international players --as defined in (e) are eligible at 20.
So she doesn't even need to be 22, no? |
Not exactly. (e) defines "international player" as someone "born and residing outside the United States who participates in the game of basketball as an amateur or a professional." It then continues that " An international player who exercises intercollegiate basketball eligibility in the United States shall be subject to the eligibility rules set forth in Section 1(b)(iii) above."
Since Zahui B exercises basketball eligibility in the US, she is governed by Section 1(b)(iii).
It's kind of like the baseball draft rules. A high school player is eligible if they have graduated from high school and have not yet attended college. But if they attend a four year college they aren't eligible until they have completed their junior year or are at least 21 years old.
An international player can be drafted in the WNBA at age 20 if they only play in Europe, but if they play for a US college then they are subject to the collegiate eligibility rules. My question is whether that includes all the college eligibility rules, or only the "graduating class" rule as the text suggests. |
As an object lesson for other and more important issues, Art and 22 have two interpretive choices. Each can:
1. Struggle as best they can to apply the literal words of the contract to the international player.
-- OR --
2. Choose to interpret the words in accordance with their personal policy preferences for international players. They can rationalize this by purporting to find a "deep structure" within the "entirety of the contract", which reveals to them the "true intent of the signatories" notwithstanding the actual words used in the contract (= statute = Constitution).
In either case, both Art and 22 will be qualified to sit on the United States Supreme Court.
How about a different question. If AZB declares, gets drafted, and then decides she doesn't want to go into the W, can she just chuck the whole draft thing, go back to school next year, and enter the draft again in a later year? |
So instead of being snide, why don't you give your interpretation of the rule. It seems pretty plain on its face. How do you read it? |
I wasn't being snide in that post or this one.
I assume lawyers for AZB and the WNBA will interpret the rules such that AZB can enter the draft this year, that Minnesota will not challenge this interpretation even if it's the weaker one, and that, therefore, no interested party with standing will be proffering the counter-interpretation even if it is stronger. Thus, the interpretation issue will probably never go "to court". If it did, the judges have the two options I describe.
What if she changes her mind if she finds out she's going to Tulsa? |
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GlennMacGrady
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| Posted: 04/06/15 3:39 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| How about a different question. If AZB declares, gets drafted, and then decides she doesn't want to go into the W, can she just chuck the whole draft thing, go back to school next year, and enter the draft again in a later year? |
No, she has to sign a form renouncing her eligibility in order to be eligible for the draft. |
She does? Under what Section? What about Section 1(d)? This goes to the Art-22 debate. |
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