RebKell's Junkie Boards

[GlennMacGrady]

"I don't coach women," the coach says. "I coach basketball players." He tells a story. He was practicing with his team before a game when the opposing team's female coach came out on the floor. "I'm telling my players how to play man-to-man defense. The other coach says: ‘You can't say that. It's person-to-person defense.' I said, ‘You're shittin' me.' She says, ‘But it's women playing it.' I say: ‘Yeah, but it's man-to-man. They're just pawns, without gender. I'm a gender-neutral coach.'"

http://deadspin.com/5895516/geno-auriemma-mr-womens-basketball

Does Geno's retort make sexual sense? Grammatical sense? Etymological sense? Discriminatory sense?

Relatedly, if you are in favor of using "person-to-person defense" when discussing or analyzing women's basketball, must you use that term when discussing or analyzing men's basketball or can you use "man-to-man" there?

_________________
http://www.youtube.com/MagicBusBasketball

[Jet Jaguar]

That's the name of the defense. So yes, it makes sense.

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Oderint dum metuant - Let them hate, so long as they fear

[pilight]

[TechDawgMc]

[dtrain34]

I have no problem with Geno saying women play "man-to-man" defense, I've see women roll their eyes when a coach says "person-to-person."

What he says that gets under my skin is when he incessantly refers to his players as "guys." Not "come on, you guys" but "if one of my guys does this we'll have to...." and so on.

Always makes me think he's telegraphing a submerged wish that he was having all his success with a men's program.

[pilight]

[cthskzfn]

[summertime blues]

[beknighted]

[readyAIMfire53]

[summertime blues]

[uconnfan1]

Geno has always said, he's coaching Basketball Players Not Girls

[PRballer]

For years, Geno has also referred to his players as "our guys." It's odd when you think about it.

[GlennMacGrady]

No one has addressed the two things I had in mind in the OP.

How can anyone say they are a "gender neutral coach" when they are most definitely coaching female gender players and yet most definitely using a male gender phrase ("M-T-M"). The neutral gender phrase would be "person-to-person". If one is using M-T-M for both genders, that's not a neutral gender use of language -- it's a consistently male-centric use of language -- although it may be an acceptable usage, such as using third party masculine pronouns (he, him, his) for both genders.

I have heard coaches and announcers such as Debbie Antonelli using the P-T-P phrase in women's basketball games. For those of you who think that's more appropriate for women's basketball, do you also think P-T-P is more appropriate for men's basketball? Does it make sense to use P-T-P in women's games and M-T-M in men's games, or P-T-P for both? This is a semantic equivalency question, and it's a real issue that faces journalists and professional writers.

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http://www.youtube.com/MagicBusBasketball

[Queenie]

Person-to-person is two syllables more unwieldy. Perhaps "one-to-one" defense?

I admit that I wish English had a grammatically feminine equivalent to guys- a word that can be used more casually than woman, but isn't as infantilizing as girl. (Though I've also noticed guys being used in a gender-neutral sense; my {female} manager will get the attention of the four {female} people in our department with a "Hey, guys?")

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Ardent believer in the separation of church and stadium.

[TigerVol]

[summertime blues]

What I meant, TV, is that Geno is highly unlikely to use the plural of "you" that comes so naturally to those of us who have Southern parents or who have lived in the south for a long time..y'all." Of course he's going to say "you guys" and the extension of that is "my guys" and even "guys" or "hey guys" when he's trying to get their attention. Pat or Holly might refer to their players as "girls" in practice although Pat often publicly referred to hers as "young women" and Holly usually says "players", but they both say "man to man" defense.

_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom

[Queenie]

[summertime blues]

[tfan]

[cthskzfn]

thanks, glenn.

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Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.

[CBiebel]

[CBiebel]

[GlennMacGrady]

Where have all the political correctors gone? It is wrong to have a team named the "Lady Vols" but right to have them play "man-to-man" defense? How fickle!

The modern term "man up" has been etymologically traced to the phrase "man-to-man defense" as that defensive phrase has been used in football games. Can a female "man up"?

Anyway, it seems (at least to me) that a basketball defense ought to have just one name regardless of the gender of the team playing it, which in fact could be a pickup team of mixed genders. Perhaps there is plurality on this site that would opt for "guy-to-guy defense" for all genders, in honor of alleged Philly lingo.

How about the neuter word "player" instead of "person"? "Player-to-player defense" is, however, a bit long and sounds a little clumsy.

Hence, why not just one word to describe the defense a la "zone defense"? It could just be "player defense". That seems simple and accurate.

So that's the proposal. Basketball should have four gender neutral defenses:

(1) player defense,
(2) zone defense,
(3) junk defense, and most often,
(4) no defense.

_________________
http://www.youtube.com/MagicBusBasketball

[summertime blues]