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What is going on at UVA? A Once Great Program in Tatters.
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pwhite66



Joined: 01 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: 04/06/15 5:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There may have been more to it. But I do know that Stanley was a Philadelphia girl - and a star player at Immaculata about an hour up the road - and her parents still lived in that area. She was still in her early 30s (Stanley got the ODU job at age 23). And in the mid-80s, the idea of leading an Ivy League school to national prominence in women's basketball didn't seem quite as daunting as it does now (Princeton notwithstanding). It's not as though ODU was anything special when she arrived in Norfolk. I think she figured she could do the same thing at Penn.

She couldn't, of course, and two years after arriving at Penn, she accepted the job at USC.


Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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Location: OREGON (in my heart)


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PostPosted: 04/06/15 5:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Thanks. Makes sense, I s'pose....the national wbb landscape was a HUGELY different entity in those days. Who knows what we'll see in 10 years? Geno retires, Muff leaves....suddenly, Oregon-St begins to ascend to dynasty level. FGCU dominates ( Shocked ) LaTech rises from the ashes.



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Last edited by Howee on 04/07/15 4:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
ClayK



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PostPosted: 04/07/15 9:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Marianne Stanley has, shall we say, a confrontational side to her personality that doesn't necessarily wear well over time.

Definitely knows the game, though ...



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Norcalnick



Joined: 26 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: 04/07/15 9:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There's a school of thought among some Cal fans that a significant portion of Boyle's success at Cal came because of Gottlieb's work as an assistant, and that when Gottlieb left to take the helm at UCSB, her absence contributed to the decline before Boyle left for the Virginia job.

I think it's pretty tough to assign credit/blame over those years, but I will say that it was pretty clear that Boyle lost the team during her final year at Cal, which I find damning because of the caliber of personalities that team had on the roster.


ClayK



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PostPosted: 04/08/15 12:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Kevin Morrison is generally given more credit than Gottlieb for Boyle's success, but who knows? You'd have to have been way on the inside to have an accurate grasp of the situation.

Morrison, by the way, is at Washington, and they've been on the upswing since he arrived.



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22



Joined: 31 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: 04/08/15 2:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Kevin Morrison is generally given more credit than Gottlieb for Boyle's success, but who knows? You'd have to have been way on the inside to have an accurate grasp of the situation.

Morrison, by the way, is at Washington, and they've been on the upswing since he arrived.


I thought Morrison was/is seen as a good recruiter - and is given more credit for Boyle's recruiting success, specifically that top rated '09 class (and strong '10 follow up)... Don't know how the timing would have worked - I assume Gottlieb would've been involved in some of the early recruiting w those classes before going to UCSB, but Morrison generally gets credit.

Of course there's always the interesting debate about importance of getting good recruits vs coaching them once there -- but I thought Norcalnick was talking about the decline under Boyle once those recruits were already there, so maybe the perception was that Gottlieb was more responsible for success on the coaching/managing side before she left....


pwhite66



Joined: 01 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: 04/08/15 3:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Generally speaking, Boyle's recruiting results have been solid at Virginia. The Cavaliers' 2013 class was ranked 10th by ESPN and the 2014 haul checked in at No. 13.

But four of the seven recruits in Boyle's first two classes - 2012 and 2013 - are no longer in the program. Additionally, she was by her own admission unable to land any of the high-profile post players she pursued for her first three classes. As mentioned previously in this thread, Boyle has three players 6-3 or taller in this year's class, so we'll see how that goes.

For what it's worth, the most highly regarded player to sign with Virginia since Boyle took over is probably Sydney Umeri (2013), a 6-1 forward ranked 29th in her class (ESPN) and a member of USA basketball's gold medal-winning U16 team at the FIBA Americas Championship. Umeri has appeared in 61 games over her two seasons with the Cavaliers and has career averages of 2.7 points and 3.0 rebounds.


ridor



Joined: 18 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: 04/15/15 8:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Everyone knew that I'm a fan of Virginia Cavaliers. I'm stymied by the whole thing at Virginia.

Losing a game to Davidson in December after Joanne Boyle came back from Senegal was a real stunner, considering the 3 games prior to the Davidson loss was coached by the associate Head Coach Kim O'Neill who guided the team to a 3-0 record.

Many fans said that the failures of recruiting post players came from Boyle's attention on adoption which took nearly two years, many fans said it hurts everything else. But after she hired LaKeshia Frett-Meredith, the team finally got post players. IMO, Frett-Meredith may be the REASON on why the Cavaliers finally got post players for 2015-16

Someone said that Bria Smith of Louisville who decommitted from Virginia has not really improved her play since she was a freshman. Would Debbie Ryan be able to improve her play at UVA if the AD did not force her out? Would she be able to do that with other players who transferred out?

I was told that Joanne Boyle earned $700,000 at Virginia. If that is the case, then what she has been doing so far is inexcusable. Sarah Imovbioh never got a chance to play in the NCAA Tournament, they are saying that the reason on why Sarah wants out is because she felt the team is not going anywhere. Now, Connecticut & South Carolina are reportedly courting her. I got a feeling that Tiffany Suarez is going to FGCU where Tiffany had 13 points in UVA's 85-56 win over FGCU two years ago.

I got a feeling that the 2015-16 season is the year that Joanne must overachieve on both sides - recruiting & performance. I still do not understand why we can't even beat Duke when NC State, Florida State, Boston College and Georgia Tech are able to beat them. Other lesser ACC teams were able to play tough against Duke. Virginia? Another blowout loss. As of lately, Joanne McCallie is not really doing well at Duke as she is alienating her own players left and right.

I already emailed the Athletic Director Craig Littlepage that if next year's performance & recruiting continue to falter, it is entirely up to him to fire her. But if he does do that, I want him to check and bring Gail Goestonkors to come back in coaching, that is to Virginia. I think she's good where she is: In the ACC. She cannot recruit in Texas and did not coach well in Big 12 but she can in the ACC. Gail always said good things about Virginia. I'm all for Gail to be the next HC at Virginia, I mean Virginia has nothing to lose, really.

R-




Last edited by ridor on 04/15/15 9:55 am; edited 1 time in total
ClayK



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PostPosted: 04/15/15 9:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

From the outside, it would seem that Goestenkors and Virginia would be a great fit ... good point, Ridor.



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CalwbbFan



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PostPosted: 04/15/15 10:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

22 wrote:
ClayK wrote:
Kevin Morrison is generally given more credit than Gottlieb for Boyle's success, but who knows? You'd have to have been way on the inside to have an accurate grasp of the situation.

Morrison, by the way, is at Washington, and they've been on the upswing since he arrived.


I thought Morrison was/is seen as a good recruiter - and is given more credit for Boyle's recruiting success, specifically that top rated '09 class (and strong '10 follow up)... Don't know how the timing would have worked - I assume Gottlieb would've been involved in some of the early recruiting w those classes before going to UCSB, but Morrison generally gets credit.

Of course there's always the interesting debate about importance of getting good recruits vs coaching them once there -- but I thought Norcalnick was talking about the decline under Boyle once those recruits were already there, so maybe the perception was that Gottlieb was more responsible for success on the coaching/managing side before she left....


For the record, Gottlieb has done pretty well with recruiting on her own at Cal, sans Morrison....

When Gottlieb left Cal for UCSB I think it did hurt Cal....Though the (young) Bears won the WNIT the next season (after no NCAA bid for the first time in years), Boyle's final season in Berkeley was kind of a mess. Gottlieb came back in and took that WNIT group (sans Stallworth who had transferred to Kentucky at the end of Boyle's term) to the Final Four.....those were the remaining Fab 7 that players "Boyle" had recruited, but it wasn't until Gottlieb returned that they found their equilibrium. Of course the core was seniors, so that helped.

That said, I really appreciated Boyle's stint at Cal. She established an entirely new culture at Cal where winning is expected. Perhaps that's why her final year there was so disappointing.

I wish her well. I know how much she wanted to adopt a child and now that she has, I hope she can find happiness and success. I can't imagine being a mom of a toddler and coping with the demands of D1 coaching (without a lot of help).

I hope UVA has starts moving up to where they belong.




Last edited by CalwbbFan on 04/15/15 2:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
summertime blues



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PostPosted: 04/15/15 10:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pwhite66 wrote:
Quote:
I remember a lot of that--didn't Mechelle Voepel even do a piece on it?--but I was really thinking more about the what/when/how of ODU's decline, with Marianne Stanley, maybe? Who was the coach during the Lieberman--Nissin days?


Stanley coached Old Dominion from 1977-87, a period that covered the Lieberman/Donovan/Nissen years and included two AIAW titles, an NWIT championship and the 1985 NCAA title. ODU went 15-13 and 18-13 in Stanley's last two seasons. Stanley left ODU to take the head job at Penn.

Wendy Larry replaced Stanley in 1987 and obviously did a great job of keeping ODU on the national map by winning the Colonial Athletic Association tournament 17 straight years. Her tenure peaked from 1997-2002 when Larry tapped into a well of exceptionally talented foreign-born players (Ticha Penicheiro, Clarisse Machanguana, Mery Andrade, Hamchetou Maiga, Lucienne Berthieu) and consistently fielded national Top-10 teams. When this well dried up, Larry still guided the Lady Monarchs to the NCAAs, but this was largely on the strength of ODU's dominance of the CAA. Outside of the "Portuguese Connection" era, there were several ODU teams that I don't believe would have made the NCAAs if not for the automatic bid. ODU's last hurrah came in 2008 when the Lady Monarchs won two NCAA tournament games on their own floor to reach the Sweet 16 before losing to UConn. ODU's rule of the CAA ended the following year, and two seasons after that, so did her career.

I think ODU's "decline" from national powerhouse to mere NCAA qualifiers isn't really a reflection on Larry but speaks to the difficulty any program would have trying to field consistent heavyweight teams out of a one-bid league like the CAA. As for Larry's last three years, I just think that once the program lost its grip on the CAA, no one could quite figure out how to get it back. Rebuilding is something that Old Dominion and Larry had never really had to do.

Four years after Larry stepped down, ODU is still trying to piece things together.


ODU isn't even *in* the CAA any more. They migrated to C-USA in 2012. JMU now effectively controls the CAA in WBB. ODU has to contend with such mid-major WBB powerhouses as WKU, so it obviously didn't do them any good to move.

They used to play Tennessee regularly in the preseason and generally gave the Lady Vols a good game, even in the latter years when they usually got drubbed. It was always a very friendly rivalry. It's really sad to see how they've fallen. I don't think their new AD did them any favors at all in *any* direction.



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