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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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 Posted: 07/19/15 2:17 pm ::: |
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| Harper is the hero of the game. A key 3 point shot, two huge freethrows, and a steal at the end to ice it.
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NoDakSt
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 07/19/15 2:18 pm ::: |
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| If Canada makes it to the finals, U.S. Is gonna have a hell of a time.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 07/19/15 2:22 pm ::: |
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Harper bailed everyone else out. Great job.
Her game was funny. She'd make a great play and follow it up with some out of control play, and you'd be pulling your hair out.
Fortunately she ended with three straight great plays. Drew the foul, made the two clutch game winning free throws, and made the great steal.
I guess you take the good with the bad. She was key in two of the US wins.
Congrats to her.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 07/19/15 2:24 pm ::: |
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| NoDakSt wrote: |
| If Canada makes it to the finals, U.S. Is gonna have a hell of a time. |
This time at least it will be the US playing on several hours more rest.
And Canada at least plays basketball rather than the Brazil/Cuba Rugby that gave the US such fits.
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 07/19/15 2:25 pm ::: |
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65-64 US.
Harper, a career 52% ft shooter at Kentucky makes 2 in crunch time for the win.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 07/19/15 2:40 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
The object of any offense is to get good shots (you can't control whether they'll go in).
From what I saw, Jefferson took good shots. Yes, the point guard wants to get others involved, but if you're getting good shots and making a higher percentage than the people you might pass to, I can't call that bad decision-making.
Presumably, opponents will adjust to take away Jefferson's open looks and drives, and again presumably, when they do that, other options will open up. |
You coach, right? Don't you have a game plan? Don't you expect your players to follow it? Don't you pay any attention to the advantages of working the ball inside, such as being in position for offensive rebounds and getting the opponent' s star posts into foul trouble, neither if which happens when shots are jacked from 25 in the first 5 seconds of the shot clock? Or do you just sit there and have your star take all the shots? I thought you usually decried tht type of ball. |
My basic game plan is to do what gives us the best chance to win.
If you let a player get good looks and she keeps making them, I'm fine with that, regardless of what our plan was going in. Maybe our plan was to go inside, but they sagged off and took away the entry pass. We're not going to keep trying the game plan -- instead, we'll have the wings shoot open shots.
That was a tough game, and the USA won, thanks in great part to good shooting from Jefferson and Stewart. Maybe the next time they play, Brazil does something different, and other options are available.
Some nights you win with balanced scoring; some nights you win with one or two players taking over. The pregame plan isn't that important, in the grand scheme of things. As von Moltke said, plans do not survive first contact with the enemy. |
Seems a bit simplistic. In my experience there are usually other considerations in developing a game plan than just who has a hot hand. Yours ignores all the other reasons why a coach might choose to play one way or the other. To control tempo, to take advantage of a deeper bench or protect a short one, to improve rebounding, to prevent easy transition baskets by the opponent, etc., etc., etc. Things that don't show up on the scoreboard right away but pay off as the game develops. To me, that's called coaching.
Same reason why in football you run plays that you know aren't going to gain significant yardage so that it sets up plays for later in the game.
But to each his own I suppose.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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| Posted: 07/19/15 2:42 pm ::: |
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Either a great comeback or a lucky win for the USA against PR, depending on how you look at it.
Alaina Coates has been a beast in the paint the last two games, hitting 14 of 24 shots and sky ripping 28 rebounds. Linnae Harper played great on offense and defense in this game.
Stewart looked like an anti-beast in the paint against PR, almost afraid to be there. She kept chucking and missing from long range.
Stewart and Jefferson took 30 of the USA's 67 shots, making only 10 of them for a combined FG% of 33. They were also 0-9 on three-point shots, many of them of an impetuous or rushed quality, and combined for eight turnovers.
The offense would have worked better by going to Coates and Stewart in the low paint via high-low passes, entry lobs, or drives and dishes.
Box score |
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justinabina
Joined: 19 May 2014
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| Posted: 07/19/15 2:43 pm ::: |
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| NoDakSt wrote: |
| If Canada makes it to the finals, U.S. Is gonna have a hell of a time. |
This is the match-up I'm hoping to see! I have tickets to the gold medal game tomorrow. Can't emphasize enough how exciting it is to finally see in person players I've been reading about and watching online.
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NoDakSt
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 07/19/15 2:52 pm ::: |
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| several of the Cuban starters have played together for 8 years. That experience and familiarity with one another showed in this matchup.
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
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| Posted: 07/19/15 3:00 pm ::: |
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| justinabina wrote: |
| NoDakSt wrote: |
| If Canada makes it to the finals, U.S. Is gonna have a hell of a time. |
This is the match-up I'm hoping to see! I have tickets to the gold medal game tomorrow. Can't emphasize enough how exciting it is to finally see in person players I've been reading about and watching online. |
I'm jealous. Especially if it's US vs. Canada!
Have fun!
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Conway Gamecock
Joined: 23 Jan 2015
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| Posted: 07/19/15 3:01 pm ::: |
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WOW...the USA Pan Am team win a very tight physical 65-64 semifinal game against Cuba and advance to the Gold Medal game. Kentucky's Linnae Harper led the way with 16 points on 6-12 shooting plus 2 very important clutch free throws in the final seconds to put USA up for good after a steal by Cuba enabled them to take the lead with 12 seconds left. Maryland's Shatori Walker-Kimbrough added 15 pts on 7-11 shooting and 4 steals as the guards led USA to victory. Harper also had 4 steals in the game.
South Carolina's Alaina Coates was a force inside for the Americans with 10 pts on 4-9 shooting, a game-leading 15 rebounds and 2 blocked shots. USA now awaits to see who will face them in the Gold Medal Game slated for 8:45 tomorrow night. The other semifinal game pits Canada versus Brazil....
Boxscore:
http://results.toronto2015.org/IRS/e...women-2-01.htm
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 07/19/15 3:06 pm ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
Either a great comeback or a lucky win for the USA against PR, depending on how you look at it.
Alaina Coates has been a beast in the paint the last two games, hitting 14 of 24 shots and sky ripping 28 rebounds. Linnae Harper played great on offense and defense in this game.
Stewart looked like an anti-beast in the paint against PR, almost afraid to be there. She kept chucking and missing from long range.
Stewart and Jefferson took 30 of the USA's 67 shots, making only 10 of them for a combined FG% of 33. They were also 0-9 on three-point shots, many of them of an impetuous or rushed quality, and combined for eight turnovers.
The offense would have worked better by going to Coates and Stewart in the low paint via high-low passes, entry lobs, or drives and dishes.
Box score |
I assume you mean Cuba, not Puerto Rico.
Even though Jefferson's shooting percentage wasn't great, and she took even more shots, I thought she played more within the offense than trying to make herself the offense as she did in game 1. I thought her slashes to the basket were critically important. I actually don't have much complaint about her shot selection this game. She did hold on to the ball and overdribble it at times, though, ending up with the team having to rush to get off a shot several times. And I really didn't understand dribbling the ball for 15 seconds until there was only 5 seconds left in the 3rd quarter. Then dished to Stewart forcing Stewart to rush a really bad shot. Goes down as a Stewart miss, but it was really Jefferson's fault. That was 5-7 seconds too late to start the play.
The most inexplicable stretch for Stewart began with about 7 minutes left in the game after the US had clawed back to within two points at 55-53, by slashing, and by working the ball, and by rebounding, but then after playing good defense, on FOUR consecutive possessions, Stewart jacked up (and missed) three point attempts. Four straight times down the floor. That wasn't how they had gotten back in the game, and there really was no excuse for those shots. Fortunately Coates and Harper at least salvaged three points off those misses,
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 07/19/15 3:18 pm ::: |
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| NoDakSt wrote: |
| several of the Cuban starters have played together for 8 years. That experience and familiarity with one another showed in this matchup. |
I've noticed in all the US's games that they are faster, taller and more athletic but their opponents execute far better. Cuba looked to be stronger at the center and the guard positions and like all the US's opponents used high screens very effectively.
But the biggest factor today seemed to be fatigue. Towards the end of the game the US was standing around on offense and wasn't even able to get back on defense despite being much faster end to end. Jefferson was forced to play 40 minutes due to Mitchell being unavailable and Plum being totally unable to deal with the physicality, and it showed at the end. Reimer, in 20 minutes was able to pull down 2 rebounds and go 0-3. On the first possession of the game she got a pass at the high post that clanked off her hands for a turnover. That set the tone for her and she was unable to get open for a pass into the paint the entire game. It seemed like at least a half dozen passes to her were intercepted. It looked like anything was allowed in the paint as long as it didn't involve the ballhandler. Stewart's back is going to be nothing but bruises from the elbows she got in there. To her credit, Coates played great in the 4th quarter, scoring and with a huge block against Noblet at the end.
In playdown tournaments a team almost always has a stinker they have to survive. They got by this one. The coaches need to get them all in the whirlpool, put some food into them and put them in bed.
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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012
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| Posted: 07/19/15 3:44 pm ::: |
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| Can't wait for the final, will it be Canada or Brazil? All these teams seem to be having trouble getting things going
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Conway Gamecock
Joined: 23 Jan 2015
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| Posted: 07/19/15 4:39 pm ::: |
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Once the Pan Am coaches realized that they need to actually get the ball to Alaina Coates, she's averaged 15.7 pts, 10.7 rebounds, and 1.7 blocks shooting 66.7% in the 3 games since, in 25 minutes per game. Compare that to Stewart's averages of 19.0 ppg, 8.5 rpg, and 2.0 steals and shooting 50.0% in 31+ minutes per gm. Alaina is a big girl that has to battle inside against the opposing teams' bigs, while Stewart can flit in and out and often avoid those scrums, so I can understand giving Coates more rest time each game and rotate in the other big girls. Don't get me wrong, Breanna has taken a lot of abuse in these games too, so I'm not trying to say that she's not getting beat up too, because she certainly is.
But IMO Alaina may be giving more bang for the buck, now that the coaches realize they have her on their team....
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Oldfandepot2
Joined: 05 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 07/19/15 4:50 pm ::: |
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| As the announcers correctly stated, Linnea Harper was the impact player today and as we have seen, Walker-Kimbrough continues to provide consistent play especially in the first half of today's game. Game balls to the both of them. Well deserved.
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Cave Canem!
We must listen to each other no matter how much it hurts. Bishop Desmond Tutu.
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awhom111
Joined: 19 Nov 2014
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| Posted: 07/19/15 7:01 pm ::: |
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| Canada dismantling Brazil...
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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NoDakSt
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 07/19/15 7:51 pm ::: |
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| So weird, Achonwa fouls out in like 10 minutes and Canada still destroys Brazil. Looks like Canada rested their starters.
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uconnfan1
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 07/19/15 8:44 pm ::: |
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Canada wins by Double Digits over USA for the Gold Medal.
Have to remember for the most part this Canadian team is the same team that finished 5th in the World Championships last year. Also they had an European Exhibition Tour playing 6 Games against some of the Best European Teams earlier this Summer. Never mind majority of the players have been on the team for two years.
Canada doesn't have any GREAT players, but they play as a team and they have so much more experience then Team USA. Canada is using this tournament as a warm up for the Olympic Qualifying Tournament in August. ''
IF USA wins, it would be a major upset but most won't think it will be.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 07/20/15 10:33 am ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
The object of any offense is to get good shots (you can't control whether they'll go in).
From what I saw, Jefferson took good shots. Yes, the point guard wants to get others involved, but if you're getting good shots and making a higher percentage than the people you might pass to, I can't call that bad decision-making.
Presumably, opponents will adjust to take away Jefferson's open looks and drives, and again presumably, when they do that, other options will open up. |
You coach, right? Don't you have a game plan? Don't you expect your players to follow it? Don't you pay any attention to the advantages of working the ball inside, such as being in position for offensive rebounds and getting the opponent' s star posts into foul trouble, neither if which happens when shots are jacked from 25 in the first 5 seconds of the shot clock? Or do you just sit there and have your star take all the shots? I thought you usually decried tht type of ball. |
My basic game plan is to do what gives us the best chance to win.
If you let a player get good looks and she keeps making them, I'm fine with that, regardless of what our plan was going in. Maybe our plan was to go inside, but they sagged off and took away the entry pass. We're not going to keep trying the game plan -- instead, we'll have the wings shoot open shots.
That was a tough game, and the USA won, thanks in great part to good shooting from Jefferson and Stewart. Maybe the next time they play, Brazil does something different, and other options are available.
Some nights you win with balanced scoring; some nights you win with one or two players taking over. The pregame plan isn't that important, in the grand scheme of things. As von Moltke said, plans do not survive first contact with the enemy. |
Seems a bit simplistic. In my experience there are usually other considerations in developing a game plan than just who has a hot hand. Yours ignores all the other reasons why a coach might choose to play one way or the other. To control tempo, to take advantage of a deeper bench or protect a short one, to improve rebounding, to prevent easy transition baskets by the opponent, etc., etc., etc. Things that don't show up on the scoreboard right away but pay off as the game develops. To me, that's called coaching.
Same reason why in football you run plays that you know aren't going to gain significant yardage so that it sets up plays for later in the game.
But to each his own I suppose. |
Of course all the factors you mention are important, and are thought about before the game begins. And if things go as you plan/expect, then they come into play. But things often don't go as planned, especially if the other team makes a defensive adjustment you didn't anticipate, so you have to shift gears.
In general, the defensive decisions coaches make have more to do with how the game plays out than the offensive ones -- simple example would be playing zone or man. The game plan against man will be different than against a zone; the game plan against a 2-2-1 3/4 court press will be different than against a full court, hard-denial man press.
I think sticking to a predetermined plan regardless of the other team's strategy will generally fail unless you have clearly superior talent -- and if you have clearly superior talent, you're very likely to win anyway.
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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012
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| Posted: 07/20/15 12:18 pm ::: |
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I hope the homerism toward Coates is just that. She didn't show up in the early games simple as that. Just like Reimer was better in some games than others. Stewart is the focus of the defense, even being on the floor is going to make it easier for any other player whether she is hitting shots or not.
I really liked Canada in their earlier game and they showed again v Brazil that they can pick apart a team that overplays them. They also got the game called a little closer but kudos to them. USA could take a lesson in when you catch the ball look to pass first rather than dribble. This is becoming a very bad habit for USA players.
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Oldfandepot2
Joined: 05 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 07/20/15 1:14 pm ::: |
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| You know sometimes we forget including myself that the USA are college level players with not one professional on the team. Keeping that in mind they have acquitted themselves very well, well enough to get to the Gold medal game. Criticism is ok, just think they deserve a lot of kudos for getting where they are even if some of the other teams don't have all their pro players.
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We must listen to each other no matter how much it hurts. Bishop Desmond Tutu.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 07/20/15 5:29 pm ::: |
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| Oldfandepot2 wrote: |
| You know sometimes we forget including myself that the USA are college level players with not one professional on the team. Keeping that in mind they have acquitted themselves very well, well enough to get to the Gold medal game. Criticism is ok, just think they deserve a lot of kudos for getting where they are even if some of the other teams don't have all their pro players. |
Agreed. And remember that many of these teams, other than us and the Canadians, are the country's *national* teams and play together much of the time. By comparison, ours is pretty much a "pick-up" squad. I think they're doing damn good.
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It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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