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stever
Joined: 16 Nov 2004
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 Posted: 03/18/15 10:11 pm ::: Brennan: To grow NCAA women's tournament, move it |
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/christinebrennan/2015/03/18/womens-basketball-ncaa-tournament-final-four-schedule/24990741/
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Start the women's season a week or so early, perhaps cut out a game or two during the regular season, and then schedule the tournament so the Final Four is on the Friday night before the Sunday men's selection show, with the championship game being played right after the show on Sunday. Or go with Saturday-Monday if that makes it easier to avoid competing on TV with the men's conference tournaments. Just get it all done before the men get going.
Already, I hear the wailing from the women's hoops purists about all the problems this will cause with schedules and timing, blah-blah-blah, and how happy they are with what they have now, which amounts to little more than table scraps from the men's tournament. |
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 03/18/15 10:25 pm ::: |
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Not to be snarky or overly pessimistic, but every proposal that's built around the idea that the tournament will get more attention if it's at some other time fails to recognize that there's always something else.
I think there's actually a decent argument that the current schedule is close to optimal - having the championship game the night after the men probably comes close to maximizing possible ratings and attention.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 03/18/15 10:41 pm ::: |
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| In a word, Ms. Brennan, bullpucky. It's always about adjusting around the men. No.
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FS02
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 03/18/15 10:43 pm ::: |
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| beknighted wrote: |
Not to be snarky or overly pessimistic, but every proposal that's built around the idea that the tournament will get more attention if it's at some other time fails to recognize that there's always something else.
I think there's actually a decent argument that the current schedule is close to optimal - having the championship game the night after the men probably comes close to maximizing possible ratings and attention. |
And it gets great ratings for a women's event.
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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| Posted: 03/19/15 12:22 am ::: |
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i think the move to fri-mon was dumb.
Before employing all this crap Brennan and Frese support, how about giving the women's tournament the same amount of TV coverage as the men's?
Equal time is what I want.
And stop trying to sell WCB to MCB fans!
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 03/19/15 12:29 am ::: |
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If you want more fans to watch, the level of talent must be expanded. And more teams need to get deeper into the tournament.
There have been 24 FF slots in the last 6 years. 15 of them filled by 3 teams, UConn, Stanford & Notre Dame. 6 teams fill the other 9 slots with Louisville, Okl and Baylor each having 2 appearances.
It's been a real small club over these years. Six teams filling 88% of the slots.
People will get interested when their teams have some hope.
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blaase22
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FS02
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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| Posted: 03/19/15 2:22 am ::: |
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The NCAA Tournament is approximately 3 weeks long, including rest days, so that's more than just cutting out a weekend or a game or two, and she says in her article. That is about 6 games, with each conference playing 2 games each week and that is not taking into consideration having to redo the conference and non-conference schedules with conferences having to start before Christmas and maybe even the first week of December which would coincide with finals for almost every school, and a lot of schools like to take finals week off.
And then to have the national championship scheduled for right after the men's selection show would be the worst thing that can be done.
And lastly, putting the women's final four against conference tournaments doesn't sound like a very good idea either, as I'm sure ESPN would rather show almost all men's conference tournaments, like they do now, than showing the Women's Final Four.
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CourtsideTix
Joined: 19 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 03/19/15 4:41 am ::: |
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The WNBA plays at a time when it does not compete with men's professional basketball, yet remains a little niche sport that keeps trying, unsuccessfully, to market itself to fans of the men's game. They are different products. In this day and age, it's not like people don't know about the other product, it's just that most of them are not terribly interested in it.
Just because I like mint chocolate chip ice cream doesn't mean I like butter pecan ice cream. I know the latter exists, I'm just not interested in it, even though they are both ice cream, and I'm not going to be eating it on days when the store happens to be out of mint chocolate chip.
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zune69
Joined: 27 May 2010
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| Posted: 03/19/15 7:13 am ::: |
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Cut the number of tournament teams to 48 or 32.Make each RD a best out of 3 series played on the teams home court.Teams with the higher seed get home court advantage.If 48 teams are selected,the top 16 teams get a 1st rd byes.Eliminate 4-6 non conference games from the regular season schedule to make room for the expanded tournament playoffs.The Final four would be on a neutral site.
Attendance would go up and the atmosphere would be electric.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 03/19/15 7:16 am ::: |
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| zune69 wrote: |
| Cut the number of tournament teams to 48 or 32. |
32 teams would mean no at-large bids. That's never going to happen.
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zune69
Joined: 27 May 2010
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| Posted: 03/19/15 7:19 am ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| zune69 wrote: |
| Cut the number of tournament teams to 48 or 32. |
32 teams would mean no at-large bids. That's never going to happen. |
O.k....48 it is.As long as we don't have to watch 40-70 point 1st rd blowouts.
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Ex-Ref
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| Posted: 03/19/15 9:26 am ::: |
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| Quote: |
| Could it be more ingrained in our culture that there is only one basketball tournament going on at the moment — even when there are two? |
Apparently she forgot about the NIT/WNIT.
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pilight
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| Posted: 03/19/15 9:38 am ::: |
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| Ex-Ref wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Could it be more ingrained in our culture that there is only one basketball tournament going on at the moment — even when there are two? |
Apparently she forgot about the NIT/WNIT. |
And the CBI, CIT, and WBI.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 03/19/15 10:51 am ::: |
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| GEF34 wrote: |
The NCAA Tournament is approximately 3 weeks long, including rest days, so that's more than just cutting out a weekend or a game or two, and she says in her article. That is about 6 games, with each conference playing 2 games each week and that is not taking into consideration having to redo the conference and non-conference schedules with conferences having to start before Christmas and maybe even the first week of December which would coincide with finals for almost every school, and a lot of schools like to take finals week off.
And then to have the national championship scheduled for right after the men's selection show would be the worst thing that can be done.
And lastly, putting the women's final four against conference tournaments doesn't sound like a very good idea either, as I'm sure ESPN would rather show almost all men's conference tournaments, like they do now, than showing the Women's Final Four. |
Moving it earlier doesn't get a free window unless you start the season in early October and run the Women's tournament in February, which not only would be silly, it would mean well over half the season would be during football season before most of the general audience turns its attention to basketball.
If you move it back a month until after the men are done, the problem is that most people think the CBB season is over when the men's tournament ends, baseball season will have started, and a lot of basketball fans will have turned their attention to the NBA playoffs.
There is no "empty window" of time. There's always something else to draw people's attention.
And personally I'm of the view that playing in the summer will always make the WNBA a niche product. If you want to be taken seriously you play basketball during basketball season. I'd much prefer the WNBA play as during the winter and simply be an alternative. (Although I suspect the WNBA's primary scheduling issue isn't about attracting fans, it's about getting players for cheap during the International off season. If they played during the basketball season they'd have to pay competitive salaries to get players to play here in the US instead of Europe, China, etc.)
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 03/19/15 10:59 am ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| (Although I suspect the WNBA's primary scheduling issue isn't about attracting fans, it's about getting players for cheap during the International off season. If they played during the basketball season they'd have to pay competitive salaries to get players to play here in the US instead of Europe, China, etc.) |
This is true. When the W does reach the point of paying competitive salaries, I predict it will move to a winter schedule.
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Ex-Ref
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| Posted: 03/19/15 11:37 am ::: |
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Seems like all you have to do is look at the conference tourney's and when they are held.
Aren't most of the major conference women's tourney's played a week before the men?
How many fans are there? How much prime TV do they get? How much print coverage do they get?
I really don't see this as a solution.
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 03/19/15 1:01 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| zune69 wrote: |
| Cut the number of tournament teams to 48 or 32. |
32 teams would mean no at-large bids. That's never going to happen. |
There was a time when the thought of a college football playoff was never going to happen due to the power of the 4 bowls.
I already pointed out that the actual contenders in wcbb is very small. So cut the field to 32 at-large bids and reduce it to 8 in the first weekend. Then let the 8 play a double elimination tournament as they do in baseball. It would showcase the teams that actually play high level BB to the general audience and would allow for many matchups that never seem to happen, (UConn-Tenn; Notre Dame-Stanford) for example.
And yeah, I know it's politically unlikely but it is reasonable.
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 03/19/15 1:43 pm ::: |
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| Ex-Ref wrote: |
Seems like all you have to do is look at the conference tourney's and when they are held.
Aren't most of the major conference women's tourney's played a week before the men?
How many fans are there? How much prime TV do they get? How much print coverage do they get?
I really don't see this as a solution. |
That is an incredibly good point.
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Youth Coach
Joined: 23 Mar 2008
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| Posted: 03/19/15 2:43 pm ::: |
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| cthskzfn wrote: |
i think the move to fri-mon was dumb.
Before employing all this crap Brennan and Frese support, how about giving the women's tournament the same amount of TV coverage as the men's?
Equal time is what I want.
And stop trying to sell WCB to MCB fans! |
Equal time for the women's tournament? That is NEVER going to happen. Can you really see four networks broadcasting women's basketball like they do for the men's tournament?
The ratings have to be there and they wouldn't be.
I love women's hoops as much as the next guy but let's be realistic here, you will never see the women's tournament be on the same level of coverage, anticipation and all out, dare I say, Madness as the men's tourney. |
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Youth Coach
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| Posted: 03/19/15 2:45 pm ::: |
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| blaase22 wrote: |
Then again it's the same for football  |
The difference here is that football is an ingrained part of the sporting life. Women's basketball trails significantly in that category.
And there seems to be more of a chance to pull an upset even in college football than there is against the best 6-8 teams in women's hoops these days. |
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Youth Coach
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| Posted: 03/19/15 2:52 pm ::: |
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| Another thing to remember is that the piece comes from Brennan who thanks to endless shrieking caterwauling disguised as the work of a columnist has damaged her credibility beyond measure. |
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 03/19/15 3:31 pm ::: |
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| Youth Coach wrote: |
| Another thing to remember is that the piece comes from Brennan who thanks to endless shrieking caterwauling disguised as the work of a columnist has damaged her credibility beyond measure. |
I was going to say something to that effect but didn't. Glad someone did, however. Can't stand the *****.
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norwester
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
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| Posted: 03/19/15 3:32 pm ::: |
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| FS02 wrote: |
| blaase22 wrote: |
| linkster wrote: |
If you want more fans to watch, the level of talent must be expanded. And more teams need to get deeper into the tournament.
There have been 24 FF slots in the last 6 years. 15 of them filled by 3 teams, UConn, Stanford & Notre Dame. 6 teams fill the other 9 slots with Louisville, Okl and Baylor each having 2 appearances.
It's been a real small club over these years. Six teams filling 88% of the slots.
People will get interested when their teams have some hope. |
That's a problem in all womens sports. Seems like it's always the same schools every year in softball, volleyball and basketball, in the final four, world series, etc, etc.
Then again it's the same for football |
Pretty much all college sports are that way except men's basketball. |
Is men's basketball really that far out from the rest of the sports, though? Seems like there are programs that are dominant, and then a sprinkling of others who show up from time to time, depending on coaching, who left early for the NBA, health, etc. Didn't someone show that statistically it was a myth that the men's game was so much more diverse, or am I misremembering?
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