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| Should UTenn keep the "Lady Vols" name for all its women's teams? |
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| No |
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| Total Votes : 72 |
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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 Posted: 03/13/15 4:00 pm ::: Should Tennessee keep the "Lady Vols" nickname? |
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The University of Tennessee apparently has decided to abolish the "Lady Vols" nickname for all its women's team in favor of the gender neutral "Volunteers", except for women's basketball. This has created a furor within Tennessee from groups of fans, former athletes and politicians.
http://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/college/vols/2015/02/16/lady-vols-dave-hart-lawsuits-legacy/23442495/
What sayeth RebKell?
I'm not going to reveal my preference, but this poll may separate those who value deep and meaningful athletic traditions from those who value superficial and politically correct nomenclature. |
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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Shades
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| Posted: 03/13/15 4:10 pm ::: |
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| Glenn, I don't want to reveal my answer, but I'm curious if you're in favor of the Washington NFL team keeping its Redskins name.
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Last edited by Shades on 03/13/15 9:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ladyvol777
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 03/13/15 9:18 pm ::: |
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| In the South you are either a Lady or a Bitch.
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SpaceJunkie
Joined: 10 Sep 2012
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Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: 03/13/15 9:21 pm ::: |
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| Ladyvol777 wrote: |
| In the South you are either a Lady or a Bitch. |
I never knew that "lady" is a derogatory term for a female.
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FS02
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
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Location: Husky (west coast) Country
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| Posted: 03/13/15 9:37 pm ::: |
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I think it's up to the schools whatever they want to call themselves.
But the term "Lady" is usually not meant to be offensive by the people who use it, it is meant as a compliment, so I don't have a problem with it except that in some cases it sounds a little silly when paired with an obviously male nickname, like "Lady Knights" or whatever.
"Redskins" is a whole 'nother ball of wax, that's a racial slur. I can't believe they haven't changed it yet.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 03/13/15 9:56 pm ::: |
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| SpaceJunkie wrote: |
| Ladyvol777 wrote: |
| In the South you are either a Lady or a Bitch. |
I never knew that "lady" is a derogatory term for a female. |
Why make a distinction at all? Isn't that sexist or, at the very least, patronizing?
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Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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Ladyvol777
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 03/13/15 10:03 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| SpaceJunkie wrote: |
| Ladyvol777 wrote: |
| In the South you are either a Lady or a Bitch. |
I never knew that "lady" is a derogatory term for a female. |
Why make a distinction at all? Isn't that sexist or, at the very least, patronizing? |
I was always raised to call women a Lady was the most respect you could give a women. Don't know when it changed. Was always a Lady and Gentleman
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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| Posted: 03/13/15 10:34 pm ::: |
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| Wasnt this decided and discussed last year ? The Lady Vols Name Will Never Leave That BBall Team. Most successful program the school has .
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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| Posted: 03/13/15 11:01 pm ::: |
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| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| Wasnt this decided and discussed last year ? The Lady Vols Name Will Never Leave That BBall Team. Most successful program the school has . |
The new naming policy under the integrated athletic department allows the basketball team to remain the Lady Vols. Why is that? Obviously not for some different ethical or moral reason, but simply because the WBB team has the most economically powerful and vocal fan base.
But there are other many other women's sports at UTenn, such as the very successful softball and track teams. Those sports have thousands of former athletes and fans who want those teams to remain Lady Vols, too. The poll is asking whether all the sports should retain the name. |
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 03/13/15 11:46 pm ::: |
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| SpaceJunkie wrote: |
| Ladyvol777 wrote: |
| In the South you are either a Lady or a Bitch. |
I never knew that "lady" is a derogatory term for a female. |
Condescending is more like it. It perpetuates the notion that male is the default and female is a deviation from the default.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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| Posted: 03/13/15 11:57 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| Glenn, I don't want to reveal my answer, but I'm curious if you're in favor of the Washington NFL team keeping its Redskins name. |
This could be a related issue if discussed civilly.
I wouldn't say I "favor" the Redskins name, though I don't find Indian names to be racist, derogatory or in any way offensive for sports teams. However, I realize other people do. Therefore, I personally wouldn't name a sports team with an Indian name or even with the prefix "Lady".
On the other hand, if there is an existing team, especially a privately owned one, with a long-established Indian name that is liked and preferred by a significant portion of that team's fan base and ownership -- like the Redskins -- I don't have any philosophical, moral, ethical or legal objection to that name being retained. I certainly don't want the federal government to be involved, as they are in trying to void the Redskins' trademarks.
As background, I am a proud FSU Seminole, a tribe that is especially venerated in Florida because it was the only tribe in America to remain unconquered, never signing a peace treaty with the U.S. government.
The FSU football experience would be greatly diminished without the most stirring team entrance in college sports. Chief Osceola rides in on Renegade, an Appaloosa, and plants the burning spear at midfield while the marching band plays the Seminole War Chant in front of 82,000 fans doing the tomahawk chop. Well, you really have to be there. |
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blaase22
Joined: 28 Mar 2011
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| Posted: 03/14/15 1:09 am ::: |
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| Yes its tradition , just like Hawaii calling their womens teams rainbow wahine instead of rainbow warriors.
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GEF34
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hyperetic
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| Posted: 03/14/15 8:57 am ::: |
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| I say no. Pat and her teams made that name significant. It shouldn't be changed unless she's OK with it. |
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 03/14/15 10:59 am ::: |
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I think keeping the exception for women's basketball makes it clear that it's not about uniting everyone under one name, or whatever bullshit Hart's spewing. Either give it back to the other teams (and I know Tennessee has other strong women's programs, such as softball and track) or take it off everyone.
I personally abhor the Lady moniker, but mostly because it tends to be appended in places where it's not appropriate. (God help me if Steve Lavin refers to the "Lady Johnnies" or the "Lady Storm" one more fucking time. And that's not even going into inappropriate sexing of words, like the example given of "Lady Knights" {because a lady knight is a dame, and while there is nothing like a dame, it doesn't have the same ring to it}, or something like "Lady Gamecocks".) On the other hand, I am aware that there are different cultural norms regarding said usage, and I don't know if it's my place to impose my view on a team.
So I'm going to pose a tangentially related question: what about Louisiana Tech? Should their female athletes be Bulldogs like the men, or remain Lady Techsters?
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StevenHW
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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| Posted: 03/14/15 11:13 am ::: |
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| I don't have a problem with calling a women's team "the Lady _____", as long as the men's basketball or football team are called "the Gentleman ______".
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 03/14/15 11:24 am ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| Wasnt this decided and discussed last year ? The Lady Vols Name Will Never Leave That BBall Team. Most successful program the school has . |
The new naming policy under the integrated athletic department allows the basketball team to remain the Lady Vols. Why is that? Obviously not for some different ethical or moral reason, but simply because the WBB team has the most economically powerful and vocal fan base.
But there are other many other women's sports at UTenn, such as the very successful softball and track teams. Those sports have thousands of former athletes and fans who want those teams to remain Lady Vols, too. The poll is asking whether all the sports should retain the name. |
What you don't get, Glenn, is that this goes far deeper than just the name. Lady Vol fans and former Lady Vol athletes see this as just more of the systematic devaluation of the women's athletic program under Heartless Dave, chancellor Jimmy the Cheek, and UT president Joe DiPietro. There is a distinct feeling among the fans and the athletes that those three persist in seeing the women's athletic programs as just a footnote to the all-important football program instead of as a proud tradition in its own right. A state senator has even introduced a bill in the legislature to return the Lady Vols name to all programs. DiPietro issued a snotty statement last week that "this is not up for negotiation," but the protests go on, as well as calls for his, Cheek's, and Hart's ousters.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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| Posted: 03/14/15 12:21 pm ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| Wasnt this decided and discussed last year ? The Lady Vols Name Will Never Leave That BBall Team. Most successful program the school has . |
The new naming policy under the integrated athletic department allows the basketball team to remain the Lady Vols. Why is that? Obviously not for some different ethical or moral reason, but simply because the WBB team has the most economically powerful and vocal fan base.
But there are other many other women's sports at UTenn, such as the very successful softball and track teams. Those sports have thousands of former athletes and fans who want those teams to remain Lady Vols, too. The poll is asking whether all the sports should retain the name. |
How much money has the softball team or track team which both might i add are awesome year after year but compared to UT WBb theyre no comparison for notoriety and funds revenued
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 03/14/15 1:07 pm ::: |
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| And it's not even all about money, it's about the *devaluation* of women's athletics by these guys.
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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Ladyvol777
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 248
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| Posted: 03/14/15 5:18 pm ::: |
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| In the south the highest compliment a man can give a women is call her a Lady. I was watching when the Senate was grilling a four star general and Senator Barbara Boxer from California told him to call her a senator and not Ma’am. In the military they are thought that Ma’am is the highest honor you can call a women. To me she downgraded herself. Remember the Disney move a Lady and a Tramp, also the song by Tom Jones, She is a Lady, and both held the women to the highest esteem.
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taropatch
Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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| Posted: 03/14/15 7:39 pm ::: |
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| SpaceJunkie wrote: |
| Ladyvol777 wrote: |
| In the South you are either a Lady or a Bitch. |
I never knew that "lady" is a derogatory term for a female. |
Is "hen" a derogatory name for a man who plays sports at Delaware?
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Ladyvol777
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 03/14/15 8:53 pm ::: |
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| taropatch wrote: |
| SpaceJunkie wrote: |
| Ladyvol777 wrote: |
| In the South you are either a Lady or a Bitch. |
I never knew that "lady" is a derogatory term for a female. |
Is "hen" a derogatory name for a man who plays sports at Delaware? |
Why should it, they knew the name before they go there. Call me what you want just call me for dinner.
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SueFavor
Joined: 20 May 2013
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NickDMB
Joined: 04 Mar 2015
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| Posted: 03/15/15 3:42 am ::: |
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I generally hate it when people throw out dictionary definitions like they're definitive, but in this case, it helped me clarify why I agree with others on this thread that it's patronizing.
1
a : a woman having proprietary rights or authority especially as a feudal superior
b : a woman receiving the homage or devotion of a knight or lover
2
capitalized : virgin mary —usually used with Our
3
a : a woman of superior social position
b : a woman of refinement and gentle manners
c : woman, female —often used in a courteous reference <show the lady to a seat> or usually in the plural in address <ladies and gentlemen>
4
a : wife
b : girlfriend, mistress
5
a : any of various titled women in Great Britain —used as the customary title of (1) a marchioness, countess, viscountess, or baroness or (2) the wife of a knight, baronet, member of the peerage, or one having the courtesy title of lord and used as a courtesy title for the daughter of a duke, marquess, or earl
b : a woman who is a member of an order of knighthood — compare dame
To me, the most applicable definition to contemporary American usage is "a woman of refinement or gentle manners." I'm not saying that WCBB players aren't refined, but that's simply not what athletes who have reached the top of their peer group in a sport are being recognized for. The use of lady (in addition to the fact that it's an unnecessary distinction) overlooks the personality traits that are required to be a successful D1 athlete, like hard-working, aggressive, disciplined, competitive, in favor of more stereotypically feminine traits like refinement and gentleness. I'm not a fan of that.
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