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ClayK
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 Posted: 02/04/15 10:44 am ::: |
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Williams-Flournoy's success at Georgetown was also tied to her assistant, whose name I forget (I want to say Kevin Brown, but I'm pretty sure that's wrong). He had great AAU ties and brought in talented, very athletic players who pressed like crazy and were successful.
I think he took over when W-F left, and crashed and burned as a head coach, but as a recruiter, he was excellent.
I wondered at the time if W-F would be able to make it happen at Auburn, given the administrative indifference to women's basketball as part of the equation, and sadly, the answer seems to be no.
But a couple good years of recruiting, especially if she can get some of Boo's players from Virginia and the DMV, and they could get better quickly. Coaching, after all, is about recruiting, recruiting, recruiting and then some more recruiting.
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purduefanatic
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| Posted: 02/04/15 12:19 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
When did they ever send three teams to the FF? You must be thinking of the MEN'S tourney. I checked, and that's never happened in the women's, at least not since it's been NCAA. |
UConn, Notre Dame and Louisville...the year was 2013.
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summertime blues
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| Posted: 02/04/15 12:39 pm ::: |
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| My bad....the last year of the Big East. I was thinking earlier, and the site I checked stopped at 2012. And IIRC it was regarded as something of a fluke as Louisville was a 5 seed. Still does not make the old BE the best conference ever....only in Art's mind.
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pilight
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| Posted: 02/04/15 12:44 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| My bad....the last year of the Big East. I was thinking earlier, and the site I checked stopped at 2012. And IIRC it was regarded as something of a fluke as Louisville was a 5 seed. Still does not make the old BE the best conference ever....only in Art's mind. |
It makes it a lot better than the SEC, which hasn't had a F4 team since 2008.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 02/04/15 1:06 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| My bad....the last year of the Big East. I was thinking earlier, and the site I checked stopped at 2012. And IIRC it was regarded as something of a fluke as Louisville was a 5 seed. Still does not make the old BE the best conference ever....only in Art's mind. |
Well, that's pretty hilarious. Your "fluke" Louisville easily beat . . . drum roll .. . . Tennessee in the Regional finals. Then they won the semi-final and finally lost to another BE team UConn in the championship game. I'd say "nice try" but really, it wasn't.
I notice you also conspicuously avoided addressing:
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
Like in 2011, for example, when the BE had NINE tournament bids, five Sweet Sixteen teams, and two Final Four teams, while the SEC got 4 bids, 2 Sweet Sixteen, zero Final Four. Williams-Flournoy's Georgetown team made it to the SS that year where it lost to UConn by 5.
The nine tournament teams were Connecticut, DePaul, Georgetown, Louisville, Marquette, Notre Dame, Rutgers, St. Johns, West Virginia. |
Oh, and once again Tennessee got knocked out by a BE team, this time Notre Dame. (Vandy and Ky also got knocked out by BE teams.)
The BE was the best league - strongest at the top, and deepest - for quite a few years before its demise. That's reality and only the most ardent SEC homer would futily attempt to deny it.
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summertime blues
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| Posted: 02/04/15 2:48 pm ::: |
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2011-----one year. ONE YEAR. And alas for you, the Big East will not likely return to its former glory. You will have to take your shamrock and become an ACC fan.
Since the NCAA took over the women's tourney, the SEC has *consistently* had a half dozen teams in the field, except for one year when they only had 4 and a couple when they had 5. The Big East could not match that. They first came on the scene in 1986, and then it was Villanova and Providence. They were still pretty much nobody except for Rutgers, until the rise of UConn, and then the Johnny-come-latelies Notre Dame and Louisville. The SEC and ACC have been there all along. Sorry to bust your bubble.
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ArtBest23
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| Posted: 02/04/15 3:26 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
2011-----one year. ONE YEAR. And alas for you, the Big East will not likely return to its former glory. You will have to take your shamrock and become an ACC fan.
Since the NCAA took over the women's tourney, the SEC has *consistently* had a half dozen teams in the field, except for one year when they only had 4 and a couple when they had 5. The Big East could not match that. They first came on the scene in 1986, and then it was Villanova and Providence. They were still pretty much nobody except for Rutgers, until the rise of UConn, and then the Johnny-come-latelies Notre Dame and Louisville. The SEC and ACC have been there all along. Sorry to bust your bubble. |
You really don't want to go there. Your "ONE YEAR" is as completely false as your claim that the BE never put 3 teams in the final four. And no one is talking about or cares about the 1980s. The only claim was that "For several years before it's demise the BE was plainly the best conference." Again, reading is fundamental.
Now here are the relevant facts.
In the last five year of the Big East, the BE put ten teams in the final four while during those same years the SEC had ZERO final four teams.
In the last ten years of the Big East, the Big East put 74 teams in the tournament compared to the SEC's 60 bids. In only one of those ten years (2005) did the SEC have more than the BE (5 to 4). Two years they were tied. In the other seven the BE had more, often many more:
2004 - 8/7
2006 - 7/6
2007 - 8/5
2008 - 8/5
2010 - 7/6
2011 - 9/4
2013 - 8/7
Reality check. For several years before it's demise the BE was plainly the best conference. It was stronger at the top, and it was deeper. Get over it.
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summertime blues
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| Posted: 02/04/15 5:08 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
2011-----one year. ONE YEAR. And alas for you, the Big East will not likely return to its former glory. You will have to take your shamrock and become an ACC fan.
Since the NCAA took over the women's tourney, the SEC has *consistently* had a half dozen teams in the field, except for one year when they only had 4 and a couple when they had 5. The Big East could not match that. They first came on the scene in 1986, and then it was Villanova and Providence. They were still pretty much nobody except for Rutgers, until the rise of UConn, and then the Johnny-come-latelies Notre Dame and Louisville. The SEC and ACC have been there all along. Sorry to bust your bubble. |
You really don't want to go there. Your "ONE YEAR" is as completely false as your claim that the BE never put 3 teams in the final four. And no one is talking about or cares about the 1980s. The only claim was that "For several years before it's demise the BE was plainly the best conference." Again, reading is fundamental.
Now here are the relevant facts.
In the last five year of the Big East, the BE put ten teams in the final four while during those same years the SEC had ZERO final four teams.
In the last ten years of the Big East, the Big East put 74 teams in the tournament compared to the SEC's 60 bids. In only one of those ten years (2005) did the SEC have more than the BE (5 to 4). Two years they were tied. In the other seven the BE had more, often many more:
2004 - 8/7
2006 - 7/6
2007 - 8/5
2008 - 8/5
2010 - 7/6
2011 - 9/4
2013 - 8/7
Reality check. For several years before it's demise the BE was plainly the best conference. It was stronger at the top, and it was deeper. Get over it. |
"74 TEAMS IN THE TOURNAMENT".......really, Artie......not 74 teams. They never HAD 74 teams. Yes, they put teams in the tournament. Break it down by year. Don't play the hyperbole game. And get past it, because the Big East DOESN'T EXIST ANY MORE, no matter how much you wish it did. But keep pining for past glory.
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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| Posted: 02/04/15 5:36 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
In the last ten years of the Big East, the Big East put 74 teams in the tournament compared to the SEC's 60 bids. In only one of those ten years (2005) did the SEC have more than the BE (5 to 4). Two years they were tied. In the other seven the BE had more, often many more:
2004 - 8/7
2006 - 7/6
2007 - 8/5
2008 - 8/5
2010 - 7/6
2011 - 9/4
2013 - 8/7
Reality check. For several years before it's demise the BE was plainly the best conference. It was stronger at the top, and it was deeper. Get over it. |
"74 TEAMS IN THE TOURNAMENT".......really, Artie......not 74 teams. They never HAD 74 teams. Yes, they put teams in the tournament. Break it down by year. Don't play the hyperbole game. And get past it, because the Big East DOESN'T EXIST ANY MORE, no matter how much you wish it did. But keep pining for past glory. |
He was referring to the fact that in the past 10 years, the Big East has sent a total of 74 teams to the NCAA Tournament. Nowhere did he imply 74 "different" teams.
The Big East was a monster conference for several years, there is no doubting that.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 02/04/15 5:38 pm ::: |
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Really, that's the best you can do?
| summertime blues wrote: |
| Break it down by year. |
What part of this did you not understand:
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
In the last ten years of the Big East, the Big East put 74 teams in the tournament compared to the SEC's 60 bids. In only one of those ten years (2005) did the SEC have more than the BE (5 to 4). Two years they were tied. In the other seven the BE had more, often many more:
2004 - 8/7
2006 - 7/6
2007 - 8/5
2008 - 8/5
2010 - 7/6
2011 - 9/4
2013 - 8/7
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| And get past it, because the Big East DOESN'T EXIST ANY MORE, no matter how much you wish it did. But keep pining for past glory. |
Do you not understand what the word "demise" means in the sentence
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| The only claim was that "For several years before it's demise the BE was plainly the best conference." |
You made the absurd claim:
| summertime blues wrote: |
The Big East was never the best conference in the country. It may have had two of the best teams and a couple of other pretty decent ones, but it was never the best conference. |
I've more than demonstrated repeatedly how completely wrong you were.
I'm happy with Notre Dame being in the ACC. BTW, it has now replaced the BE as the best conference in women's college basketball. Last year, the ACC had 8 bids to the SEC's 7, and it had 2 teams in the final four to the SEC's zero. Indeed, the one constant is that the SEC hasn't had a team in the final four in six years. That's consistency for you.
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cthskzfn
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Queenie
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summertime blues
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| Posted: 02/04/15 7:28 pm ::: |
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The Big East was pretty spectacular in its LATER years, true. It would not have been so without UConn and the Johnny-come-latelies. It will likely not be so again now that they are gone. Best ever? That may be your opinion and you may have it. Others are entitled to disagree. There is no need for you to be nasty or patronizing.
The ACC has some good teams, and some that seem prone at the present time toward slippage, such as Duke, UNC, and most recently Louisville, darn it. It also has a few that seem to have seen better days, such as Clemson and NC State, and some on the rise like Florida State. But I'm looking at the Big Ten where the addition of Maryland and Rutgers has definitely mixed things up for the better. Don't count your chickens just yet. The season is not nearly over.
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cthskzfn
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| Posted: 02/04/15 9:03 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
The Big East was pretty spectacular in its LATER years, true. It would not have been so without UConn and the Johnny-come-latelies. It will likely not be so again now that they are gone. Best ever? That may be your opinion and you may have it. Others are entitled to disagree. There is no need for you to be nasty or patronizing.
The ACC has some good teams, and some that seem prone at the present time toward slippage, such as Duke, UNC, and most recently Louisville, darn it. It also has a few that seem to have seen better days, such as Clemson and NC State, and some on the rise like Florida State. But I'm looking at the Big Ten where the addition of Maryland and Rutgers has definitely mixed things up for the better. Don't count your chickens just yet. The season is not nearly over. |
um, yeah but,....
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cthskzfn
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beknighted
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beknighted
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| Posted: 02/04/15 9:50 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| The Big East was pretty spectacular in its LATER years, true. It would not have been so without UConn and the Johnny-come-latelies. It will likely not be so again now that they are gone. Best ever? That may be your opinion and you may have it. Others are entitled to disagree. There is no need for you to be nasty or patronizing. |
Saying "without UConn" about the Big East is sort of like saying "without Tennessee" about the SEC.
On the "Johnny-come-latelies": Rutgers was in the Big East from 1995 to 2013. That's 2 Final Fours, 3 other Elite 8s and I forget how many more Sweets 16s.
Notre Dame was in the Big East from 1995 to 2013. That's a national championship, a bunch of Final Fours, etc.
I could go on, of course.
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summertime blues
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| Posted: 02/04/15 9:58 pm ::: |
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| UConn was in the Big East from the beginning. Rutgers and Notre Dame were not. Louisville and DePaul definitely were not. You call it what you want. I call them all johnny-come-latelies. (I say the same thing about TAMU and Mizzou in the SEC, and would just as soon not have them, but there they are.) In any case it's now a moot point. And that's my last comment on the subject.
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beknighted
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| Posted: 02/04/15 11:19 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| UConn was in the Big East from the beginning. Rutgers and Notre Dame were not. Louisville and DePaul definitely were not. You call it what you want. I call them all johnny-come-latelies. (I say the same thing about TAMU and Mizzou in the SEC, and would just as soon not have them, but there they are.) In any case it's now a moot point. And that's my last comment on the subject. |
Yes, we know that you think any team that wasn't in the conference from the beginning doesn't count. I'm not sure why.
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ArtBest23
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| Posted: 02/05/15 12:12 am ::: |
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| beknighted wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| UConn was in the Big East from the beginning. Rutgers and Notre Dame were not. Louisville and DePaul definitely were not. You call it what you want. I call them all johnny-come-latelies. (I say the same thing about TAMU and Mizzou in the SEC, and would just as soon not have them, but there they are.) In any case it's now a moot point. And that's my last comment on the subject. |
Yes, we know that you think any team that wasn't in the conference from the beginning doesn't count. I'm not sure why. |
The "why" is pretty obvious. Ignoring everyone who wasn't original is the last gasp effort to support the assertion that the BE was never the best conference.
And I assume that Maryland and Rutgers and Penn State don't count for several decades in the B10; ND, Syracuse, Louisville, and I guess even FSU and Miami don't count in the ACC. The Big12 doesn't even exist since no one counts. Do you think ASU counts yet for the PAC? It's only been 36 years. Is that long enough? Well, I suppose that's one way to claim the SEC is the best. Just ignore everyone who's better.
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summertime blues
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| Posted: 02/05/15 11:36 am ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| beknighted wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| UConn was in the Big East from the beginning. Rutgers and Notre Dame were not. Louisville and DePaul definitely were not. You call it what you want. I call them all johnny-come-latelies. (I say the same thing about TAMU and Mizzou in the SEC, and would just as soon not have them, but there they are.) In any case it's now a moot point. And that's my last comment on the subject. |
Yes, we know that you think any team that wasn't in the conference from the beginning doesn't count. I'm not sure why. |
The "why" is pretty obvious. Ignoring everyone who wasn't original is the last gasp effort to support the assertion that the BE was never the best conference.
And I assume that Maryland and Rutgers and Penn State don't count for several decades in the B10; ND, Syracuse, Louisville, and I guess even FSU and Miami don't count in the ACC. The Big12 doesn't even exist since no one counts. Do you think ASU counts yet for the PAC? It's only been 36 years. Is that long enough? Well, I suppose that's one way to claim the SEC is the best. Just ignore everyone who's better. |
Meh.
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PlayBally'all
Joined: 17 Oct 2013
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| Posted: 02/05/15 1:12 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| I think their coach is not very good, anyway, either as a coach or as a recruiter, if this year's performance is any indication. |
She was able to win at Georgetown, which is not at all easy. It took her a few years to get rolling there. |
The SEC is a slightly different playing field. |
When she was winning at Georgetown the Big East was the best conference in the country. |
The Big East was never the best conference in the country. It may have had two of the best teams and a couple of other pretty decent ones, but it was never the best conference. |
Riiiiiiiiiight. I bet you're going to try to tell us that when the BE sent three teams to the FF, that the SEC was better. For several years before it's demise the BE was plainly the best conference. |
When did they ever send three teams to the FF? You must be thinking of the MEN'S tourney. I checked, and that's never happened in the women's, at least not since it's been NCAA. |
nm
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PlayBally'all
Joined: 17 Oct 2013
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| Posted: 02/05/15 1:23 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
Williams-Flournoy's success at Georgetown was also tied to her assistant, whose name I forget (I want to say Kevin Brown, but I'm pretty sure that's wrong). He had great AAU ties and brought in talented, very athletic players who pressed like crazy and were successful.
I think he took over when W-F left, and crashed and burned as a head coach, but as a recruiter, he was excellent.
I wondered at the time if W-F would be able to make it happen at Auburn, given the administrative indifference to women's basketball as part of the equation, and sadly, the answer seems to be no.
But a couple good years of recruiting, especially if she can get some of Boo's players from Virginia and the DMV, and they could get better quickly. Coaching, after all, is about recruiting, recruiting, recruiting and then some more recruiting. |
There is no "Administrative indifference to women's basketball"
The Athletic Dept spends over 3.5 million a year on the sport, including paying Coach Flo $558,000. The team plays in a brand new $90 million dollar Arena.
The reality is quite the opposite. Auburn actually has a history of success in women's basketball. AU played in the Final Four in 1988, 1989 & 1990 and was the SEC reg season champ in 2009. The program was not in disarray when CTWF arrived. The talent level was good. Things have digressed.
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ClayK
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| Posted: 02/06/15 10:26 am ::: |
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| PlayBally'all wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
Williams-Flournoy's success at Georgetown was also tied to her assistant, whose name I forget (I want to say Kevin Brown, but I'm pretty sure that's wrong). He had great AAU ties and brought in talented, very athletic players who pressed like crazy and were successful.
I think he took over when W-F left, and crashed and burned as a head coach, but as a recruiter, he was excellent.
I wondered at the time if W-F would be able to make it happen at Auburn, given the administrative indifference to women's basketball as part of the equation, and sadly, the answer seems to be no.
But a couple good years of recruiting, especially if she can get some of Boo's players from Virginia and the DMV, and they could get better quickly. Coaching, after all, is about recruiting, recruiting, recruiting and then some more recruiting. |
There is no "Administrative indifference to women's basketball"
The Athletic Dept spends over 3.5 million a year on the sport, including paying Coach Flo $558,000. The team plays in a brand new $90 million dollar Arena.
The reality is quite the opposite. Auburn actually has a history of success in women's basketball. AU played in the Final Four in 1988, 1989 & 1990 and was the SEC reg season champ in 2009. The program was not in disarray when CTWF arrived. The talent level was good. Things have digressed. |
My bad on this ... Auburn has done well by the women's game.
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PlayBally'all
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| Posted: 02/16/15 1:59 am ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| I think their coach is not very good, anyway, either as a coach or as a recruiter, if this year's performance is any indication. |
She was able to win at Georgetown, which is not at all easy. It took her a few years to get rolling there. |
She has a good resume. As important, she is a high character person/coach with a beautiful family. All of that helps, until you drive the ship into an iceberg. I'm not sure any coach in any sport can survive at Auburn after going winless in the SEC. Add to that, presiding over the worst record in Auburn women's basketball history. She inherited a program that was in good condition. She had a talented roster with no discipline or academic problems anywhere. In her initial press conference she said that she felt as though she was just handed the keys to a gold mine. She had a brand new arena to play in with dedicated practice courts & a conditioning staff for women's basketball. She has the use of one of six University owned private jets to aid in recruiting. She compared those things to having to use treadmills and stair climbers placed in the hallway of the athletic facility at Georgetown. There was some player attrition due to the style of play she would run as opposed to the style of play they had been playing under Fortner. Even then, there was talent on the roster. Enough that she had respectable NIT appearances her first two years. Her team scored 36 points today against Arkansas. No disrespect to Arkansas, but that is unacceptable.
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