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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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 Posted: 01/07/15 4:53 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| rAf, it sounds like you have some extreme personal connection and experience with the Duke program and I am therefore pretty much disposed to listen to what you have to say. My impression is that there is *something* very unhealthy going on down there, and it's sad to see a program once that great sink to that level. (My problems with Duke are not with the basketball program per se but with a segment of the fan base, and I do have somewhat of a problem with Coach G. because she did nothing to stop some behavior that she might have.) All I can say is that JPM may be one of those people who presents one face to the public and a very different one in private. I've worked for people like that. Not fun. |
Thanks, Summer. I'm now curious about the Duke fan behavior you object to. Was it the WalMart/Hornbuckle thing? Or are there others? You do realize that the Hornbuckle incident was orchestrated by the undergrads at Duke, right? It was pretty tame for the Cameron Crazies, who are notorious for responding to things that are public record - especially legal troubles. I realize it's a matter of personal taste and a substantial number of DWB fans objected to what the students did at that game. Personally I think it's silly to have one set of rules for fans at men's games and a different set for fans at the women's games. As a longtime DWB fan, I was just delighted to see so many students at the game and currently there's just a handful showing up. Whatever, I don't mean to diminish your feelings, you are certainly entitled to have them.
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Follow your passion and your life will be true down to your core.
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ThreeBall25
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
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| Posted: 01/08/15 8:56 am ::: |
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| purduefanatic wrote: |
| ThreeBall25 wrote: |
I don't think I have ever really considered them a serious Final Four option under JPM.
When the brackets are released and the ESPN "experts" make their Final Four picks, does anyone actually pick them to advance that far? Doubtful. |
Well, prior to the 2013-14 season, these were the predictions from ESPN's talking heads:
Cr�me - UConn, Duke, Maryland, Stanford...with UConn over Duke for the title
Hays - UConn, Duke, Maryland, Stanford...with UConn over Duke for the title
Smith - UConn, Duke, Stanford, Tennessee...with UConn over Duke for the title
Fagan - UConn, Duke, Louisville, Stanford...with UConn over Duke for the title.
Only Veopel didn't have Duke in the Final Four just last year.
I've attached the link: http://espn.go.com/womens-college-basketball/preview2013/story/_/id/9946273/predictions-2013-14-women-college-basketball-season |
Thanks for pulling that up. Interesting that everyone had them in the mix before last season's injuries and transfers, and no one had Notre Dame, who ran away with the ACC titles.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7822
Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 01/08/15 10:56 am ::: |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| rAf, it sounds like you have some extreme personal connection and experience with the Duke program and I am therefore pretty much disposed to listen to what you have to say. My impression is that there is *something* very unhealthy going on down there, and it's sad to see a program once that great sink to that level. (My problems with Duke are not with the basketball program per se but with a segment of the fan base, and I do have somewhat of a problem with Coach G. because she did nothing to stop some behavior that she might have.) All I can say is that JPM may be one of those people who presents one face to the public and a very different one in private. I've worked for people like that. Not fun. |
Thanks, Summer. I'm now curious about the Duke fan behavior you object to. Was it the WalMart/Hornbuckle thing? Or are there others? You do realize that the Hornbuckle incident was orchestrated by the undergrads at Duke, right? It was pretty tame for the Cameron Crazies, who are notorious for responding to things that are public record - especially legal troubles. I realize it's a matter of personal taste and a substantial number of DWB fans objected to what the students did at that game. Personally I think it's silly to have one set of rules for fans at men's games and a different set for fans at the women's games. As a longtime DWB fan, I was just delighted to see so many students at the game and currently there's just a handful showing up. Whatever, I don't mean to diminish your feelings, you are certainly entitled to have them. |
It was, and I thought it was tacky and cruel. Coach G could have done precisely what Pat Summitt did when that sort of thing got out of hand at TBA, which was turn to the crowd and make a gesture of "stop it", but she chose not to. I really don't care if you think it was "mild" for Duke fans, I think their behavior was (and still is, on the men's side) out of hand and is tacky and cruel towards opposing players---men's or women's.
BTW, I think it's really sad, and a pretty obvious mirror of what's going on in the program, that so few fans are showing up for the women's games. That happened at Texas post-Conradt and seems to have reversed. I'm sure if Duke would come to their senses and replace JPM with someone of the class and caliber of Karen Aston, the same would happen at Duke. Doesn't seem likely, apparently.
_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 7370
Location: Durham, NC
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| Posted: 01/08/15 1:53 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| rAf, it sounds like you have some extreme personal connection and experience with the Duke program and I am therefore pretty much disposed to listen to what you have to say. My impression is that there is *something* very unhealthy going on down there, and it's sad to see a program once that great sink to that level. (My problems with Duke are not with the basketball program per se but with a segment of the fan base, and I do have somewhat of a problem with Coach G. because she did nothing to stop some behavior that she might have.) All I can say is that JPM may be one of those people who presents one face to the public and a very different one in private. I've worked for people like that. Not fun. |
Thanks, Summer. I'm now curious about the Duke fan behavior you object to. Was it the WalMart/Hornbuckle thing? Or are there others? You do realize that the Hornbuckle incident was orchestrated by the undergrads at Duke, right? It was pretty tame for the Cameron Crazies, who are notorious for responding to things that are public record - especially legal troubles. I realize it's a matter of personal taste and a substantial number of DWB fans objected to what the students did at that game. Personally I think it's silly to have one set of rules for fans at men's games and a different set for fans at the women's games. As a longtime DWB fan, I was just delighted to see so many students at the game and currently there's just a handful showing up. Whatever, I don't mean to diminish your feelings, you are certainly entitled to have them. |
It was, and I thought it was tacky and cruel. Coach G could have done precisely what Pat Summitt did when that sort of thing got out of hand at TBA, which was turn to the crowd and make a gesture of "stop it", but she chose not to. I really don't care if you think it was "mild" for Duke fans, I think their behavior was (and still is, on the men's side) out of hand and is tacky and cruel towards opposing players---men's or women's.
BTW, I think it's really sad, and a pretty obvious mirror of what's going on in the program, that so few fans are showing up for the women's games. That happened at Texas post-Conradt and seems to have reversed. I'm sure if Duke would come to their senses and replace JPM with someone of the class and caliber of Karen Aston, the same would happen at Duke. Doesn't seem likely, apparently. |
Summer, thank you for sharing your feelings about this and I know a significant number of Duke fans agree with you. I don't want to, in any way, diminish how all of you feel. I do want to share another perspective. Back when Lefty Driscoll was coach at Maryland, one of the MBB players was charged with rape. Lefty pressured the woman who was raped to drop the charges "for the good of the program." When Maryland came to Duke, the Cameron Crazies threw women's panties onto the court in protest of this woman being pressured to drop charges and deny the rape occurred. The woman who was raped shared this information (about being pressured) and the charge was public record. What was done to this woman was terribly wrong and I think the Duke fan response was appropriate. Humiliate the perpetrator instead of the woman who was assaulted by the rapist AND the Maryland coach. I fully understand the best thing would have been for this to go to trial and be handled by the judicial system. But it wasn't. I understand you may have a different perspective on this as well and I respect your right to feel differently.
_________________
Follow your passion and your life will be true down to your core.
~rAf
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 2819
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: 01/08/15 2:31 pm ::: |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| Summer, thank you for sharing your feelings about this and I know a significant number of Duke fans agree with you. I don't want to, in any way, diminish how all of you feel. I do want to share another perspective. Back when Lefty Driscoll was coach at Maryland, one of the MBB players was charged with rape. Lefty pressured the woman who was raped to drop the charges "for the good of the program." When Maryland came to Duke, the Cameron Crazies threw women's panties onto the court in protest of this woman being pressured to drop charges and deny the rape occurred. The woman who was raped shared this information (about being pressured) and the charge was public record. What was done to this woman was terribly wrong and I think the Duke fan response was appropriate. Humiliate the perpetrator instead of the woman who was assaulted by the rapist AND the Maryland coach. I fully understand the best thing would have been for this to go to trial and be handled by the judicial system. But it wasn't. I understand you may have a different perspective on this as well and I respect your right to feel differently. |
I remember this story and was appalled...and quite frankly, still am. I do take issue with saying it is appropriate for things to be thrown on the court. I don't think that should ever happen and should never be condoned. I mean, if a player was arrested for underage drinking or DUI, I would hope people wouldn't think it appropriate to throw beer bottles/cans on the court. Make posters, create chants to yell at the game, etc but IMO, nothing should ever be thrown on the court at players/coaches/officials.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7822
Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 01/08/15 2:44 pm ::: |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| rAf, it sounds like you have some extreme personal connection and experience with the Duke program and I am therefore pretty much disposed to listen to what you have to say. My impression is that there is *something* very unhealthy going on down there, and it's sad to see a program once that great sink to that level. (My problems with Duke are not with the basketball program per se but with a segment of the fan base, and I do have somewhat of a problem with Coach G. because she did nothing to stop some behavior that she might have.) All I can say is that JPM may be one of those people who presents one face to the public and a very different one in private. I've worked for people like that. Not fun. |
Thanks, Summer. I'm now curious about the Duke fan behavior you object to. Was it the WalMart/Hornbuckle thing? Or are there others? You do realize that the Hornbuckle incident was orchestrated by the undergrads at Duke, right? It was pretty tame for the Cameron Crazies, who are notorious for responding to things that are public record - especially legal troubles. I realize it's a matter of personal taste and a substantial number of DWB fans objected to what the students did at that game. Personally I think it's silly to have one set of rules for fans at men's games and a different set for fans at the women's games. As a longtime DWB fan, I was just delighted to see so many students at the game and currently there's just a handful showing up. Whatever, I don't mean to diminish your feelings, you are certainly entitled to have them. |
It was, and I thought it was tacky and cruel. Coach G could have done precisely what Pat Summitt did when that sort of thing got out of hand at TBA, which was turn to the crowd and make a gesture of "stop it", but she chose not to. I really don't care if you think it was "mild" for Duke fans, I think their behavior was (and still is, on the men's side) out of hand and is tacky and cruel towards opposing players---men's or women's.
BTW, I think it's really sad, and a pretty obvious mirror of what's going on in the program, that so few fans are showing up for the women's games. That happened at Texas post-Conradt and seems to have reversed. I'm sure if Duke would come to their senses and replace JPM with someone of the class and caliber of Karen Aston, the same would happen at Duke. Doesn't seem likely, apparently. |
Summer, thank you for sharing your feelings about this and I know a significant number of Duke fans agree with you. I don't want to, in any way, diminish how all of you feel. I do want to share another perspective. Back when Lefty Driscoll was coach at Maryland, one of the MBB players was charged with rape. Lefty pressured the woman who was raped to drop the charges "for the good of the program." When Maryland came to Duke, the Cameron Crazies threw women's panties onto the court in protest of this woman being pressured to drop charges and deny the rape occurred. The woman who was raped shared this information (about being pressured) and the charge was public record. What was done to this woman was terribly wrong and I think the Duke fan response was appropriate. Humiliate the perpetrator instead of the woman who was assaulted by the rapist AND the Maryland coach. I fully understand the best thing would have been for this to go to trial and be handled by the judicial system. But it wasn't. I understand you may have a different perspective on this as well and I respect your right to feel differently. |
That is a quite different thing. First off, I take issue with things being thrown on the court....that's just disruptive. But this case was extremely egregious and it bears no resemblance to the Hornbuckle case at all. I can understand the outrage and I probably would have been part of it myself, but throwing things on the court, no matter what, is wrong. However, to pick on a kid for a whole game over a shoplifting charge that was dismissed.....that's a little over the top, and Coach G could have, and IMO should have stopped it. I have no doubt that Pat would have stood up, turned around to the crowd, and signaled for them to stop. And I suspect they would have.
PS. I think Lefty Driesell was an abominable person. Propriety forbids me from expressing my REAL opinion.
_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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HoopsQueen
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FollowtheCardinalRule
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readyAIMfire53
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readyAIMfire53
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HoopsQueen
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lvf08
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| Posted: 01/08/15 8:57 pm ::: |
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Angelo Di Carlo @angdicarlowndu 9 minutes ago
Taya Reimer didn't make trip to Miami due to "personal reasons", according to Notre Dame spokesman. I'm told her status for Sunday is "TBA."
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 01/08/15 9:38 pm ::: |
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| lvf08 wrote: |
Angelo Di Carlo @angdicarlowndu 9 minutes ago
Taya Reimer didn't make trip to Miami due to "personal reasons", according to Notre Dame spokesman. I'm told her status for Sunday is "TBA." |
*innocently* Thompson-Boling Arena?
_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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Durantula
Joined: 30 Mar 2013
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| Posted: 01/08/15 9:44 pm ::: |
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| lvf08 wrote: |
Angelo Di Carlo @angdicarlowndu 9 minutes ago
Taya Reimer didn't make trip to Miami due to "personal reasons", according to Notre Dame spokesman. I'm told her status for Sunday is "TBA." |
Wasn't Reimer the one who organized the "I Can't Breathe" movement at the ND game? I remember reading that the South Bend community outside of ND alums/students were not happy with this. Could she have been receiving a lot of flack for this and just wanted to move on?
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 01/08/15 9:55 pm ::: |
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| Durantula wrote: |
| lvf08 wrote: |
Angelo Di Carlo @angdicarlowndu 9 minutes ago
Taya Reimer didn't make trip to Miami due to "personal reasons", according to Notre Dame spokesman. I'm told her status for Sunday is "TBA." |
Wasn't Reimer the one who organized the "I Can't Breathe" movement at the ND game? I remember reading that the South Bend community outside of ND alums/students were not happy with this. Could she have been receiving a lot of flack for this and just wanted to move on? |
I doubt that. If she's leaving (and I have no information that she is other than that she didn't make this trip) I suspect it would have more to do with her diminishing role and minutes. She is far behind Turner but is losing minutes to Westbeld as well, and Westbeld has started the second half several times recently.
I certainly hopes she stays. And she should ask herself how many coaches and schools would have supported her efforts in wearing those shirts.
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ArtBest23
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Howee
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HoopsQueen
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cthskzfn
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HoopsQueen
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HoopsQueen
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| Posted: 01/09/15 8:32 am ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| HoopsQueen wrote: |
| Davis4632 wrote: |
| HoopsQueen wrote: |
| Another very high profile transfer is coming..wait for the official announcement |
Can I have a hint? From which conference? |
Since Art and Glenn seem to think I don't know what I am talking about you will have to wait  |
Glenn has only questioned (in the other thread) whether HoopsQueen knew what he was talking about when he said Calhoun never had an offer from UConn, and Glenn raised that particular question only because it conflicts with the contemporaneous, video-recorded words out of Sierra Calhoun's own mouth, which I'll reinsert here:
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/FwPmuPhYT34?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
HoopsQueen, you may indeed know many other basketball things, including things about the Calhoun transfer.
I also suspect that you are not affiliated with Duke in any capacity, that you are not related to Sierra Calhoun, that you do not have a family member playing at Duke, and that you are not a Duke alum yourself. I finally think I have met you. Am I correct on any of these innocuous matters?
Now, as to why GG really left Duke, I believe my Duke alum dentist's story, which is a lot more interesting than the RebKellian versions. |
No No No No and No
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pilight
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FollowtheCardinalRule
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ClayK
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| Posted: 01/09/15 10:28 am ::: |
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It is possible, if not likely, to be right on the money on some things that are "insider info" and be just as wrong as others.
But HQ clearly has more knowledge than many of us ...
As for Coach K, Duke and Goestenkors, it's certainly possible he wanted her gone, but I have to agree that it's unlikely that he felt "threatened." There might have been other issues, but even if the women's team consistently won more games and even won more NCAA titles than the men's team, it's hard to see how that would impact Coach K.
And of course, there was no evidence that a) Goestenkors was going to do better than Krzyzewski or b) that her replacement would necessarily be less of a "threat."
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