| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8227
Location: Heisenberg
Back to top |
 Posted: 01/05/15 10:48 pm ::: |
Reply  |
|
| HoopsQueen wrote: |
| Davis4632 wrote: |
| HoopsQueen wrote: |
| Another very high profile transfer is coming..wait for the official announcement |
Can I have a hint? From which conference? |
Since Art and Glenn seem to think I don't know what I am talking about you will have to wait  |
Glenn has only questioned (in the other thread) whether HoopsQueen knew what he was talking about when he said Calhoun never had an offer from UConn, and Glenn raised that particular question only because it conflicts with the contemporaneous, video-recorded words out of Sierra Calhoun's own mouth, which I'll reinsert here:
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/FwPmuPhYT34?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
HoopsQueen, you may indeed know many other basketball things, including things about the Calhoun transfer.
I also suspect that you are not affiliated with Duke in any capacity, that you are not related to Sierra Calhoun, that you do not have a family member playing at Duke, and that you are not a Duke alum yourself. I finally think I have met you. Am I correct on any of these innocuous matters?
Now, as to why GG really left Duke, I believe my Duke alum dentist's story, which is a lot more interesting than the RebKellian versions.
Last edited by GlennMacGrady on 01/05/15 10:53 pm; edited 3 times in total |
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/05/15 10:49 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Howee wrote: |
PARENTS should not be sending their precious stars into this Black Hole of talent. |
You know, a lot of parents may think that the opportunity to get a free Duke degree is what is most important. It's not an unreasonable viewpoint.
|
|
readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 7372
Location: Durham, NC
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/05/15 10:52 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| summertime blues wrote: |
| I can definitely buy RAF's theory a whole lot more than Hoops Queen's. Having been the mom of a pretty good soccer player, I know what it is to want to find the best place for your kid. If you feel your kid is being treated badly, even if she's starting or getting a lot of minutes, then yeah, you are definitely going to talk to her about transferring, especially if you can see she's not happy and she's feeling beat down...playing time or no playing time. That is NOT being forced out. It's not "family pressure" either. It's more like "Dad, you just might be right after all." That I can understand. |
To be clear, I don't know if that is Sierra's initial response. But my best guesstimation is that is how she'll end up feeling.
Interestingly enough, I had a conversation with my own 'almost 23' year old about what it's like to be in between teen-aged/high school vs true young adult. She pretty much agreed that in that age group ~18-24 you're feeling like you have to "prove" you're ready to be a young adult (or already are) by "toughing it out." I don't think I shared with my parents that I was sexually harassed (twice) in the workplace, for instance. I was trying to prove I could hold a job so I "toughed it out." This was back in the day when there weren't people ready to take them to court. And please folks, don't think I'm trying to insinuate that these are issues in this case. This example was about ME. NOT about THEM.
_________________
Follow your passion and your life will be true down to your core.
~rAf
|
|
readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 7372
Location: Durham, NC
Back to top |
|
GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8227
Location: Heisenberg
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/05/15 11:13 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Rob Clough, a very respected and knowledgeable DWB journalist, published the following list of McCallie era transfers on the Duke board:
Here's a list of the transfers under McCallie:
Chelsea Hopkins (2010; left when Duke recruited both Chelsea Gray and Chloe Wells; had very nice career at SD State)
Alexis Rogers (2010; left after one semester; very nice career at Bowling Green)
Sierra Moore (2013; left after one year; now playing big minutes at Penn State)
Alexis Jones (2014; left after two years to Baylor)
Kianna Holland (2014; left before she played a minute, while she was nursing injuries)
Sierra Calhoun (2015; left after one semester)
A few other notes:
Janee Johnson flunked out of school and never played a minute.
Emily Waner quit prior to the end of her final season in 2008
Brittany Mitch graduated but still had another year of eligibility, which she used at a Division II school.
Claire Watkins was recruited, told she probably wouldn't play much after a stellar recruiting class was signed, and then went elsewhere.
Katie Heckman's injuries prevented her from every playing a minute, but she's still a Duke student.
Someone will have to do a valid statistical analysis before anyone should believe that McCallie has some sort unusually high rate of transfers per year at WBB programs of comparable achievement. |
|
summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7845
Location: Shenandoah Valley
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/05/15 11:16 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| I can definitely buy RAF's theory a whole lot more than Hoops Queen's. Having been the mom of a pretty good soccer player, I know what it is to want to find the best place for your kid. If you feel your kid is being treated badly, even if she's starting or getting a lot of minutes, then yeah, you are definitely going to talk to her about transferring, especially if you can see she's not happy and she's feeling beat down...playing time or no playing time. That is NOT being forced out. It's not "family pressure" either. It's more like "Dad, you just might be right after all." That I can understand. |
To be clear, I don't know if that is Sierra's initial response. But my best guesstimation is that is how she'll end up feeling.
Interestingly enough, I had a conversation with my own 'almost 23' year old about what it's like to be in between teen-aged/high school vs true young adult. She pretty much agreed that in that age group ~18-24 you're feeling like you have to "prove" you're ready to be a young adult (or already are) by "toughing it out." I don't think I shared with my parents that I was sexually harassed (twice) in the workplace, for instance. I was trying to prove I could hold a job so I "toughed it out." This was back in the day when there weren't people ready to take them to court. And please folks, don't think I'm trying to insinuate that these are issues in this case. This example was about ME. NOT about THEM. |
While she might not feel quite that way today, I'm betting that once she's away from that particular venue, she will see the situation for what it is and be glad to be gone. My kid was particularly hard-headed and it wasn't easy for her to say "Mom, you were right." Now that she has kids of her own she sees life quite differently.
_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
|
|
purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 2819
Location: Indiana
Back to top |
|
Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15739
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/05/15 11:24 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| Someone will have to do a valid statistical analysis before anyone should believe that McCallie has some sort unusually high rate of transfers per year at WBB programs of comparable achievement. |
Hmmm. I dunno. You've provided a pretty damning list of evidence: those are some fairly high-profile recruits, abandoning a high-profile program over a relatively short span of time (in contrast to, say, TN, UConn, Baylor, Stanford, et., al.) Reb's is probably the best source for comparable figures, and I haven't seen that many from one school here.
That, in conjunction with 2 other things, makes it all the more damning:
A. The defection of assistants
B. Coach P's own boorish public statements (see: press conferences, twitter, etc.)
_________________
Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
|
|
Davis4632
Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Posts: 861
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/06/15 2:13 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| Did anyone ever find out why Chloe Wells quit the team the around the last week or two before the regular season ended? That was one of the mysterious cases of a depature that I ever seen.
|
|
GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8227
Location: Heisenberg
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/06/15 2:25 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| Howee wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| Someone will have to do a valid statistical analysis before anyone should believe that McCallie has some sort unusually high rate of transfers per year at WBB programs of comparable achievement. |
Hmmm. I dunno. You've provided a pretty damning list of evidence: those are some fairly high-profile recruits, abandoning a high-profile program over a relatively short span of time (in contrast to, say, TN, UConn, Baylor, Stanford, et., al.) |
Transfers since 2008 from UConn just off the top of my head with no research:
- Elena Delle Donne
- Jess McCormack
- Samarie Walker
- Lauren Engeln
- Michala Johnson
- Brianna Banks
- Sadie Edwards
That list includes four McDonald's AA's and one high school consensus NPOY. Is it any worse or better than McCallie's list?
Someone else can make lists for Tennessee and other schools. I don't find Duke's transfers excessive. Highly sought after schools in all sports have often over-recruited (within scholarship limits) and then let Darwinian selection weed out the unfit to go elsewhere. |
|
readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 7372
Location: Durham, NC
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/06/15 7:30 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| Davis4632 wrote: |
| Did anyone ever find out why Chloe Wells quit the team the around the last week or two before the regular season ended? That was one of the mysterious cases of a depature that I ever seen. |
I don't know what happened. "Officially" she was dismissed from the team. I use the term "officially" quite loosely here since it was only after the fact that Duke included the phrase "a player was dismissed from the team." As far as I know, this phrase - that didn't have Chloe's name attached to it - is the only "official" announcement. Weirdest thing ever - to have the remaining seniors talk senior night about "all four of us came in together and all four of us graduating together" when there were five of them.
There remains the possibility that it's Chloe that didn't want anything said about her departure from the team.
_________________
Follow your passion and your life will be true down to your core.
~rAf
|
|
purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 2819
Location: Indiana
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/06/15 10:40 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
Transfers since 2008 from UConn just off the top of my head with no research:
- Elena Delle Donne
- Jess McCormack
- Samarie Walker
- Lauren Engeln
- Michala Johnson
- Brianna Banks
- Sadie Edwards
That list includes four McDonald's AA's and one high school consensus NPOY. Is it any worse or better than McCallie's list?
Someone else can make lists for Tennessee and other schools. I don't find Duke's transfers excessive. Highly sought after schools in all sports have often over-recruited (within scholarship limits) and then let Darwinian selection weed out the unfit to go elsewhere. |
I agree. The number of transfers in general has risen quite a bit over the last several years as well. Shoot, just last year the National Freshman of the Year left North Carolina.
|
|
FollowtheCardinalRule
Joined: 12 Oct 2011
Posts: 5153
Location: Denver
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/06/15 11:21 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| Obviously Stanford is tops, the only player that I remember leaving the program is JJ Hones--who was dismissed for a DUI--while driving a golf cart under the influence.
|
|
purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 2819
Location: Indiana
Back to top |
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66920
Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/06/15 11:59 am ::: |
Reply |
|
I'm sure a women's list would be as long or longer.
You may recall me mentioning that Mercer has four seniors and eight freshpersons. That's because everyone in-between transferred. The Teddy Bears regularly have multiple players transfer in and/or out between seasons.
_________________
I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
|
|
Ladyvol777
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 248
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/06/15 12:07 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| I looked at the list, looks like most went to a smaller school for more playing time. I know almost the entire teem left Tennessee because of the firing of the coach.
|
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/06/15 12:07 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
No, WBB is not nearly that bad.
I believe the reason is that most WBB players are picking schools for academics and other reasons similar to non-athlete students. They, more often than their male counterparts, picked a school, not just a coach or basketball program, and thus are less likely to bolt when basketball things don't go just as hoped. There is no $20 million pro contract at the end of their rainbow so most are thinking more about preparing for their "real world" future.
There may possibly be someone I'm missing, but I can't recall anyone transferring out of ND other than Michelle Marciniak, and that was twenty years ago.
|
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/06/15 12:10 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Ladyvol777 wrote: |
| I looked at the list, looks like most went to a smaller school for more playing time. I know almost the entire teem left Tennessee because of the firing of the coach. |
Once again, can you please change or shrink that avatar. It far exceeds the board rules for avatar size and ruins the page layout in every thread in which you post.
Several posters have asked you nicely. Please be considerate of others.
|
|
purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 2819
Location: Indiana
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/06/15 12:12 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Ladyvol777 wrote: |
| I looked at the list, looks like most went to a smaller school for more playing time. I know almost the entire teem left Tennessee because of the firing of the coach. |
Once again, can you please change or shrink that avatar. It far exceeds the board rules for avatar size and ruins the page layout in every thread in which you post.
Several posters have asked you nicely. Please be considerate of others. |
Agreed...that is obnoxious. Maybe one of the mods can do something about it.
|
|
Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15739
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/06/15 1:40 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| Howee wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| Someone will have to do a valid statistical analysis before anyone should believe that McCallie has some sort unusually high rate of transfers per year at WBB programs of comparable achievement. |
Hmmm. I dunno. You've provided a pretty damning list of evidence: those are some fairly high-profile recruits, abandoning a high-profile program over a relatively short span of time (in contrast to, say, TN, UConn, Baylor, Stanford, et., al.) |
Transfers since 2008 from UConn just off the top of my head with no research:
- Elena Delle Donne
- Jess McCormack
- Samarie Walker
- Lauren Engeln
- Michala Johnson
- Brianna Banks
- Sadie Edwards
That list includes four McDonald's AA's and one high school consensus NPOY. Is it any worse or better than McCallie's list?
Someone else can make lists for Tennessee and other schools. I don't find Duke's transfers excessive. Highly sought after schools in all sports have often over-recruited (within scholarship limits) and then let Darwinian selection weed out the unfit to go elsewhere. |
Hmmm. I see you've conveniently omitted the last part of my quote, Glenn:
| Quote: |
That, in conjunction with 2 other things, makes it all the more damning:
A. The defection of assistants
B. Coach P's own boorish public statements (see: press conferences, twitter, etc.) |
In a way, UConn/Geno might be a close comparison 'on paper', but again, with 2 major differences: They win the NCs, ANDD....Geno's alums adore him.
I understand one playing (Blue) Devil's Advocate here, but .... I still don't buy it. Coach P may not be a Renee Portland or Lavonda Wagner, but there's *something* rotten in DukeVille. This sort of shit didn't happen under GG.
_________________
Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
|
|
GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8227
Location: Heisenberg
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/06/15 2:09 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Howee wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| Howee wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| Someone will have to do a valid statistical analysis before anyone should believe that McCallie has some sort unusually high rate of transfers per year at WBB programs of comparable achievement. |
Hmmm. I dunno. You've provided a pretty damning list of evidence: those are some fairly high-profile recruits, abandoning a high-profile program over a relatively short span of time (in contrast to, say, TN, UConn, Baylor, Stanford, et., al.) |
Transfers since 2008 from UConn just off the top of my head with no research:
- Elena Delle Donne
- Jess McCormack
- Samarie Walker
- Lauren Engeln
- Michala Johnson
- Brianna Banks
- Sadie Edwards
That list includes four McDonald's AA's and one high school consensus NPOY. Is it any worse or better than McCallie's list?
Someone else can make lists for Tennessee and other schools. I don't find Duke's transfers excessive. Highly sought after schools in all sports have often over-recruited (within scholarship limits) and then let Darwinian selection weed out the unfit to go elsewhere. |
Hmmm. I see you've conveniently omitted the last part of my quote, Glenn:
| Quote: |
That, in conjunction with 2 other things, makes it all the more damning:
A. The defection of assistants
B. Coach P's own boorish public statements (see: press conferences, twitter, etc.) |
|
I have no interest or time to respond to every unquantified assertion about McCallie. What do you mean by "defection" of assisants. They get hired, fired and leave for various reasons all the time at virtually every school. Kentucky recently dumped all of theirs.
Give some actual statistics regarding Duke's assistant turnover vs. several other schools and the argument will be more compelling.
"Boorish" statements are in the eye of the beholder. I've sat in lots of press conferences and heard lots of losing coaches say lots negative things out of frustration. I've heard some coaches say negative things almost every time they win. I don't know that I've ever seen a McCallie press conference, so I can't compare the quality or quantity of her "boorishness" against any other coaches.
Oh, how about Kevin Borseth. Is P as boorish as he?
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/hEuOTkTQ8h4?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I'm not a Duke or McCallie fan, but she's one of the most successful WBB coaches of the past two decades. I just get the feeling she's the latest victim of the lynch mob du jour mentality. |
|
purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 2819
Location: Indiana
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/06/15 2:32 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| For the love of God, someone please change the avatar of LadyVol777!!!
|
|
Davis4632
Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Posts: 861
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/06/15 2:35 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
UNC transfers since 2009 off the top my head
- Cierra Warren
- Shannon Smith
- Antionette Bannister
- Diamond DeShields
|
|
summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7845
Location: Shenandoah Valley
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/06/15 2:50 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
"I'm not a Duke or McCallie fan, but she's one of the most successful WBB coaches of the past two decades. I just get the feeling she's the latest victim of the lynch mob du jour mentality."
Glenn, I kind of disagree with this statement. There's a lot of comparison in the last few posts with transfers from one program and another, but there is some very specific talk about the high profile assistant departures from Duke, which is not the case with these other programs. Geno's assistants don't leave. Hatchell's either. And there isn't a lot of talk about either of them being emotionally or psychologically abusive to players, while there has been some talk about that vis a vis JPM. Geno's, Hatchell's, and Summitt's alumni all seem to adore them. Do Coach P's? From Duke *or* MSU? Questions to ponder, perhaps.
_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
|
|
Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15739
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/06/15 3:13 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| I have no interest or time to respond to every unquantified assertion about McCallie. |
You CERTAINLY have "interest" AND "time" to make any number of responses to things that you want to argue. We all pick 'n choose, no? 
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| What do you mean by "defection" of assisants. They get hired, fired and leave for various reasons all the time at virtually every school. Kentucky recently dumped all of theirs. |
KY dumping theirs is not the same as devoted alums abruptly leaving their alma maters, and defecting to Rival schools.
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| Give some actual statistics regarding Duke's assistant turnover vs. several other schools and the argument will be more compelling. |
I have no need/interest in 'compelling' you to believe anything.
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| "Boorish" statements are in the eye of the beholder. I've sat in lots of press conferences and heard lots of losing coaches say lots negative things out of frustration. I've heard some coaches say negative things almost every time they win. I don't know that I've ever seen a McCallie press conference, so I can't compare the quality or quantity of her "boorishness" against any other coaches. |
Well, then....there's some degree of ignorance on your part, no?
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| Oh, how about Kevin Borseth. Is P as boorish as he? |
Yep. I'm not a fan of his, either. But he doesn't have the desertion she does. Nor does he draw the elite talent she does. The comparison is quite *straw-ish*.
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| I'm not a Duke or McCallie fan, but she's one of the most successful WBB coaches of the past two decades. I just get the feeling she's the latest victim of the lynch mob du jour mentality. |
At least you're in touch with your feelings on this. I certainly am, too. 
_________________
Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
|
|
|
|
