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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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 Posted: 01/09/15 10:56 am ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
It is possible, if not likely, to be right on the money on some things that are "insider info" and be just as wrong as others.
But HQ clearly has more knowledge than many of us ...
As for Coach K, Duke and Goestenkors, it's certainly possible he wanted her gone, but I have to agree that it's unlikely that he felt "threatened." There might have been other issues, but even if the women's team consistently won more games and even won more NCAA titles than the men's team, it's hard to see how that would impact Coach K.
And of course, there was no evidence that a) Goestenkors was going to do better than Krzyzewski or b) that her replacement would necessarily be less of a "threat." |
There is no question but that Krzyewski calls the shots on all things athletic at Duke. That's reality. But the very reason he does is because his stature, reputation and clout is unquestioned, which contradicts the notion he would ever feel intimidated or threatened by a WBB coach.
Now maybe if Duke was going to hire Urban Meyer as football coach, he might feel threatened by having to share the stage. But Gail Goestenkors? Get serious.
And some people plainly have earned credibility such as you, Clay. But posting that "some unnamed player at some unnamed school is going to transfer at some unspecified time" and then when the first transfer news happens claiming "yeah that's the person" when there is no track record or foundation with that school or player strains credulity.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 01/09/15 11:15 am ::: |
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| Coach K may not have have wanted Goestenkors gone, but he clearly wasn't overly excited about the prospect of her staying either. If he had wanted her to be the Duke WCBB coach, she'd still be there.
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ArtBest23
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| Posted: 01/09/15 12:02 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| Coach K may not have have wanted Goestenkors gone, but he clearly wasn't overly excited about the prospect of her staying either. If he had wanted her to be the Duke WCBB coach, she'd still be there. |
As I said above, no one doubts that Mike Krzyzewski calls the shots in the athletic department at Duke. For the very reason that men's basketball at Duke has always been king and he has taken it to even new heights of prominence and power. He could probably make you the coach if he wanted to. But that wasn't the point. This was the claim that generated the skepticism:
| HoopsQueen wrote: |
| administration was under pressure from King K to bring a coach that would not build up the women's program to become bigger than the men's. |
What do you think the risk was then of the women's basketball program at Duke ever becoming "bigger than the men's."?
And if the goal was to bury women's basketball, why would they bring in a final four coach who at the time was considered a rising star?
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Howee
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ArtBest23
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HoopsQueen
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ArtBest23
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HoopsQueen
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readyAIMfire53
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ArtBest23
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| Posted: 01/09/15 3:27 pm ::: |
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I have no idea what you two are on about.
It's not about "who's first". This isn't some grade school race for "I've got a secret and I knew it first, na na na na na."
I'm happy to get information from anyone who knows what they're talking about, whether it's about Notre Dame or anywhere else. But credibility is earned. There are people whose statements and rumors I trust, and those I don't. But I'm still trying to figure out where HoopsQueen exhibited any inside information about Notre Dame at all. All I've seen is a "somebody is going to transfer" and then an after-the-fact claim that the comment was about Reimer. And when someone with about 10 posts and no track record makes that claim, I'd like to hear some reason to believe it. Maybe it's just the lawyer in me. I've asked; have not received any reason. All I've gotten is comments indicating this is some kind of cute little game.
But hey, like the girl in the State Farm ad, everyone's entitled to believe whatever and whomever they want.
So, I assume you must also believe the claims that Coach K is petrified of Women's Basketball overtaking Men's in popularity at Duke? After all, HoopsQueen claimed that too.
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 01/09/15 7:19 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
I have no idea what you two are on about.
It's not about "who's first". This isn't some grade school race for "I've got a secret and I knew it first, na na na na na."
I'm happy to get information from anyone who knows what they're talking about, whether it's about Notre Dame or anywhere else. But credibility is earned. There are people whose statements and rumors I trust, and those I don't. But I'm still trying to figure out where HoopsQueen exhibited any inside information about Notre Dame at all. All I've seen is a "somebody is going to transfer" and then an after-the-fact claim that the comment was about Reimer. And when someone with about 10 posts and no track record makes that claim, I'd like to hear some reason to believe it. Maybe it's just the lawyer in me. I've asked; have not received any reason. All I've gotten is comments indicating this is some kind of cute little game.
But hey, like the girl in the State Farm ad, everyone's entitled to believe whatever and whomever they want.
So, I assume you must also believe the claims that Coach K is petrified of Women's Basketball overtaking Men's in popularity at Duke? After all, HoopsQueen claimed that too. |
This bolded statement is idiotic. You are misquoting/misinterpreting whatever. But it seems like whatever you're doing, you're doing it on purpose. The only person treating this like some kind of contest is YOU. HQ shared what he/she knew was going on and was not allowed to share details of. That's actually how true insider information happens. The people sharing it want some of it to be known publically and specify what you can/can't share. If you want to retain them as a source, you follow their instructions.
Now, regarding Coach K and how he might have felt about Coach G. I posted what I believe is the most accurate - that she ruffled his feathers. Another way to put it is that interpersonally, he just felt uncomfortable. This is very, very, very, very different from being "intimidated by" or "afraid of" or whatever kind of misinterpretation you insist on making. Coach G did not want her team to be some sort of JV team and insisted that the team have equal access to everything they needed.
McCallie arrived kissing his feet. They happen to have extremely similar political views. Both are army brats and love the top/down arrangement of life. McCallie is fine with the women's team being a JV team with the men being the varsity. Coach G doesn't think about things that way at all. The women's team is the varsity women's team and the men are the varsity men's team.
I think Coach K was basically indifferent to whether Coach G stayed or not. So when the idiot AD took action, he really didn't care. With the power he has, that meant the AD could do whatever idiotic thing he felt like doing. I'm using a lot bigger words, but this is very similar to what I thought HQ was saying with very few words.
Get the eff over yourself already. Clearly you have no idea what real insider information is and how the person who gets it needs to act in order to honor the wishes of the sources. Since I do have access to some inside information, I recognized immediately the limitations of what HQ could and could not post. HQ gave the hints that didn't give away more info than allowed to. He/she posted that somebody in a top program would be missing from the starting lineup BEFORE it actually happened. Hello? Everything fit EXACTLY with someone who had the information but was only allowed to make public what the source wanted public.
Seriously, the whiny attitude and purposeful misinterpretation of what's been posted is doing nothing for anyone except make you look like a whiny little know nothing.
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ArtBest23
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| Posted: 01/09/15 8:43 pm ::: |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
I have no idea what you two are on about.
It's not about "who's first". This isn't some grade school race for "I've got a secret and I knew it first, na na na na na."
I'm happy to get information from anyone who knows what they're talking about, whether it's about Notre Dame or anywhere else. But credibility is earned. There are people whose statements and rumors I trust, and those I don't. But I'm still trying to figure out where HoopsQueen exhibited any inside information about Notre Dame at all. All I've seen is a "somebody is going to transfer" and then an after-the-fact claim that the comment was about Reimer. And when someone with about 10 posts and no track record makes that claim, I'd like to hear some reason to believe it. Maybe it's just the lawyer in me. I've asked; have not received any reason. All I've gotten is comments indicating this is some kind of cute little game.
But hey, like the girl in the State Farm ad, everyone's entitled to believe whatever and whomever they want.
So, I assume you must also believe the claims that Coach K is petrified of Women's Basketball overtaking Men's in popularity at Duke? After all, HoopsQueen claimed that too. |
This bolded statement is idiotic. You are misquoting/misinterpreting whatever. But it seems like whatever you're doing, you're doing it on purpose. The only person treating this like some kind of contest is YOU. HQ shared what he/she knew was going on and was not allowed to share details of. That's actually how true insider information happens. The people sharing it want some of it to be known publically and specify what you can/can't share. If you want to retain them as a source, you follow their instructions.
Now, regarding Coach K and how he might have felt about Coach G. I posted what I believe is the most accurate - that she ruffled his feathers. Another way to put it is that interpersonally, he just felt uncomfortable. This is very, very, very, very different from being "intimidated by" or "afraid of" or whatever kind of misinterpretation you insist on making. Coach G did not want her team to be some sort of JV team and insisted that the team have equal access to everything they needed.
McCallie arrived kissing his feet. They happen to have extremely similar political views. Both are army brats and love the top/down arrangement of life. McCallie is fine with the women's team being a JV team with the men being the varsity. Coach G doesn't think about things that way at all. The women's team is the varsity women's team and the men are the varsity men's team.
I think Coach K was basically indifferent to whether Coach G stayed or not. So when the idiot AD took action, he really didn't care. With the power he has, that meant the AD could do whatever idiotic thing he felt like doing. I'm using a lot bigger words, but this is very similar to what I thought HQ was saying with very few words.
Get the eff over yourself already. Clearly you have no idea what real insider information is and how the person who gets it needs to act in order to honor the wishes of the sources. Since I do have access to some inside information, I recognized immediately the limitations of what HQ could and could not post. HQ gave the hints that didn't give away more info than allowed to. He/she posted that somebody in a top program would be missing from the starting lineup BEFORE it actually happened. Hello? Everything fit EXACTLY with someone who had the information but was only allowed to make public what the source wanted public.
Seriously, the whiny attitude and purposeful misinterpretation of what's been posted is doing nothing for anyone except make you look like a whiny little know nothing. |
Speaking of "getting the eff over yourself already", reading is fundamental, especially before launching off into some brain dead rant.
| HoopsQueen wrote: |
Coach G was forced out of Duke, administration was under pressure from King K to bring a coach that would not build up the women's program to become bigger than the men's. |
I agree it's idiotic. That's why I asked you if you agreed with it since you evidently believe anything and everything HoopsQueen posts. I wasn't the one who said it, and Im not misrepresenting anything. It's plain English, and as you said, it's idiotic.
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 01/09/15 8:54 pm ::: |
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I have run out of patience.
Dial it down. Do not take shots at other posters.
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PRballer
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 01/09/15 11:14 pm ::: |
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| Related/unrelated- why can't Duke just dump McCallie and hire Courtney Banghart already?
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 01/10/15 12:35 am ::: |
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| PRballer wrote: |
| Related/unrelated- why can't Duke just dump McCallie and hire Courtney Banghart already? |
Good point. Answer is Duke doesn't want to spend the $$ since they foolishly extended her contract through 2017. Apparently they're holding out until she finally does something (or gets caught at it) that will allow them to not pay out the committed years.
There are a goodly number of good young coaches and/or assistants at top programs who could walk in and do a decent job. They likely could not immediately recruit at the same level but could get more out of the players they do get. Duke could return to being greater than the sum of the parts instead of less than that sum.
It's not simply about winning, though getting to ZERO Final Fours in 8 years does enter in since Duke was accustomed to getting to the FF about every other year before she arrived. It's not just about how the team looks lost on offense against elite teams, though the lack of entertainment value is leading to lower attendance. It's not just about how she places all the blame on the players when they lose, though it is tiresome and disheartening. It's not just about the lack of public civility, though the "fly by" to avoid shaking DeShield's hand was decidedly unsportsmanlike. And it's not just about the transfers and departures of assistants to lateral positions, though taken in total seem to be delivering a message that a significant number of people in the program just don't like her.
The answer is (e) all of the above. Just about anyone they hire will bring more excitement back to the Duke program. The time is past due.
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HoopsQueen
Joined: 19 Dec 2013
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| Posted: 01/10/15 7:21 am ::: |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| PRballer wrote: |
| Related/unrelated- why can't Duke just dump McCallie and hire Courtney Banghart already? |
Good point. Answer is Duke doesn't want to spend the $$ since they foolishly extended her contract through 2017. Apparently they're holding out until she finally does something (or gets caught at it) that will allow them to not pay out the committed years.
There are a goodly number of good young coaches and/or assistants at top programs who could walk in and do a decent job. They likely could not immediately recruit at the same level but could get more out of the players they do get. Duke could return to being greater than the sum of the parts instead of less than that sum.
It's not simply about winning, though getting to ZERO Final Fours in 8 years does enter in since Duke was accustomed to getting to the FF about every other year before she arrived. It's not just about how the team looks lost on offense against elite teams, though the lack of entertainment value is leading to lower attendance. It's not just about how she places all the blame on the players when they lose, though it is tiresome and disheartening. It's not just about the lack of public civility, though the "fly by" to avoid shaking DeShield's hand was decidedly unsportsmanlike. And it's not just about the transfers and departures of assistants to lateral positions, though taken in total seem to be delivering a message that a significant number of people in the program just don't like her.
The answer is (e) all of the above. Just about anyone they hire will bring more excitement back to the Duke program. The time is past due. |
Agree with you, if the video of the practice fight that supposedly prompted the Calhoun transfer goes public the administration will have to take action.
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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| Posted: 01/10/15 10:11 am ::: |
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| HoopsQueen wrote: |
| Agree with you, if the video of the practice fight that supposedly prompted the Calhoun transfer goes public the administration will have to take action. |
Why would the administration have to take action? There have been fights in practices in all sports...hell, I witnessed a couple during my days. While it's not common, it's also not something that has no precedent either. Unless this fight has some undercurrent or other issue to it (racial, sexual orientation, etc), then I don't see why the admin would have to be involved in any way as it would be an internal matter amongst the team. Now if something else was involved, I can see why the admin would need to step in.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 01/10/15 11:08 am ::: |
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| purduefanatic wrote: |
| HoopsQueen wrote: |
| Agree with you, if the video of the practice fight that supposedly prompted the Calhoun transfer goes public the administration will have to take action. |
Why would the administration have to take action? There have been fights in practices in all sports...hell, I witnessed a couple during my days. While it's not common, it's also not something that has no precedent either. Unless this fight has some undercurrent or other issue to it (racial, sexual orientation, etc), then I don't see why the admin would have to be involved in any way as it would be an internal matter amongst the team. Now if something else was involved, I can see why the admin would need to step in. |
Well, rAf has alluded to emotional and psychological abuse, and that has caused the firing of coaches at other institutions. Oakland and BU come immediately to mind, but no place as big as Duke.
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It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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| Posted: 01/10/15 11:35 am ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| purduefanatic wrote: |
| HoopsQueen wrote: |
| Agree with you, if the video of the practice fight that supposedly prompted the Calhoun transfer goes public the administration will have to take action. |
Why would the administration have to take action? There have been fights in practices in all sports...hell, I witnessed a couple during my days. While it's not common, it's also not something that has no precedent either. Unless this fight has some undercurrent or other issue to it (racial, sexual orientation, etc), then I don't see why the admin would have to be involved in any way as it would be an internal matter amongst the team. Now if something else was involved, I can see why the admin would need to step in. |
Well, rAf has alluded to emotional and psychological abuse, and that has caused the firing of coaches at other institutions. Oakland and BU come immediately to mind, but no place as big as Duke. |
True...but that isn't what HQ was just talking about. A fight in practice was specifically mentioned. That in and of itself wouldn't necessarily mean the admin would have to jump in. What you have brought up is another issue entirely.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 01/10/15 12:09 pm ::: |
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| purduefanatic wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| purduefanatic wrote: |
| HoopsQueen wrote: |
| Agree with you, if the video of the practice fight that supposedly prompted the Calhoun transfer goes public the administration will have to take action. |
Why would the administration have to take action? There have been fights in practices in all sports...hell, I witnessed a couple during my days. While it's not common, it's also not something that has no precedent either. Unless this fight has some undercurrent or other issue to it (racial, sexual orientation, etc), then I don't see why the admin would have to be involved in any way as it would be an internal matter amongst the team. Now if something else was involved, I can see why the admin would need to step in. |
Well, rAf has alluded to emotional and psychological abuse, and that has caused the firing of coaches at other institutions. Oakland and BU come immediately to mind, but no place as big as Duke. |
True...but that isn't what HQ was just talking about. A fight in practice was specifically mentioned. That in and of itself wouldn't necessarily mean the admin would have to jump in. What you have brought up is another issue entirely. |
Kinda depends on who was fighting with whom over what.....
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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bekcat1
Joined: 24 Feb 2011
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| Posted: 01/10/15 12:10 pm ::: |
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| purduefanatic wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| purduefanatic wrote: |
| HoopsQueen wrote: |
| Agree with you, if the video of the practice fight that supposedly prompted the Calhoun transfer goes public the administration will have to take action. |
Why would the administration have to take action? There have been fights in practices in all sports...hell, I witnessed a couple during my days. While it's not common, it's also not something that has no precedent either. Unless this fight has some undercurrent or other issue to it (racial, sexual orientation, etc), then I don't see why the admin would have to be involved in any way as it would be an internal matter amongst the team. Now if something else was involved, I can see why the admin would need to step in. |
Well, rAf has alluded to emotional and psychological abuse, and that has caused the firing of coaches at other institutions. Oakland and BU come immediately to mind, but no place as big as Duke. |
True...but that isn't what HQ was just talking about. A fight in practice was specifically mentioned. That in and of itself wouldn't necessarily mean the admin would have to jump in. What you have brought up is another issue entirely. |
HQ inferred (at least in my opinion), that it was a coach vs. player, which should get the administrator's attention.
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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| Posted: 01/10/15 12:48 pm ::: |
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| bekcat1 wrote: |
HQ inferred (at least in my opinion), that it was a coach vs. player, which should get the administrator's attention. |
Well that is an entirely different situation as well.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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| Posted: 01/10/15 12:50 pm ::: |
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| I'm still puzzled about why there is any real debate left here by folks like us: To even a casual observer of The Game (as it's devolved at Duke over the past several years), it's clear that Coach P has NOT been a hire leading to a net gain for the school. As rAf indicated, it's a multi-faceted set of facts that, while couched in some subjectivity, are still discernable FACTS: *Stuff* ain't right there, and it's not improving!
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 01/10/15 1:10 pm ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
| I'm still puzzled about why there is any real debate left here by folks like us: To even a casual observer of The Game (as it's devolved at Duke over the past several years), it's clear that Coach P has NOT been a hire leading to a net gain for the school. As rAf indicated, it's a multi-faceted set of facts that, while couched in some subjectivity, are still discernable FACTS: *Stuff* ain't right there, and it's not improving! |
Thanks for your phrasing here, Howee. I have to admit that my personal feelings leak in, so thanks for seeing the facts, which are what leads to those feelings.
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Follow your passion and your life will be true down to your core.
~rAf
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PRballer
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| Posted: 01/10/15 2:35 pm ::: |
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Duke just hasn't progressed under McCallie. It's plain as day. Clay outlined some reasons why she's "done well" in terms of wins/losses but she really hasn't done anything in that she's alienated the fan base and run off a significant number of recruits and coaches.
And she hasn't been to a Final Four or come close to a natty.
Anyone who has watched the team play knows it's not as good quality as it was under the previous coach.
Change.
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