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CalwbbFan
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 1474
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 Posted: 12/16/14 3:55 pm ::: |
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Private institutions generally receive some form of federal funding and you can bet (some) of their students receive aid that has federal funds attached (or guaranteed by the federal government).
From Pepperdine's financial aid website: http://www.pepperdine.edu/admission/financialaid/message.htm
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| As a participant in the Federal Direct Loan Program, Pepperdine will provide students a simplified and secure process for obtaining federal student loans. The University, rather than a bank or other lending institution, will ensure timely disbursement of federal loan funds each semester. The Department of Education secures the funding directly from the U.S. Treasury, so any future instability in financial markets should not directly affect this source of funding for federal student loans. |
If you condone this sort of discrimination, where does it end? What is the line the sand you cannot cross? Can you discriminate on the basis of nationality or religion? What if the team only allowed self-described Christians to play on it? I don't really care if my local florist won't make flower arrangements for a gay couple's wedding, but there is this issue of where do you draw the line? Let Pepperdine exist without the option of tapping into federal aid dollars to subsidize enrollment if they want to enforce this policy....but if the institution wants to to benefit from federal funds, it will have to play by federal rules.
My daughter is beginning the college application process. Good to know Pepperdine is one to cross of the list...
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 16359
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: 12/16/14 5:15 pm ::: |
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| CalwbbFan wrote: |
Private institutions generally receive some form of federal funding and you can bet (some) of their students receive aid that has federal funds attached (or guaranteed by the federal government).
From Pepperdine's financial aid website: http://www.pepperdine.edu/admission/financialaid/message.htm
| Quote: |
| As a participant in the Federal Direct Loan Program, Pepperdine will provide students a simplified and secure process for obtaining federal student loans. The University, rather than a bank or other lending institution, will ensure timely disbursement of federal loan funds each semester. The Department of Education secures the funding directly from the U.S. Treasury, so any future instability in financial markets should not directly affect this source of funding for federal student loans. |
If you condone this sort of discrimination, where does it end? What is the line the sand you cannot cross? Can you discriminate on the basis of nationality or religion? What if the team only allowed self-described Christians to play on it? I don't really care if my local florist won't make flower arrangements for a gay couple's wedding, but there is this issue of where do you draw the line? Let Pepperdine exist without the option of tapping into federal aid dollars to subsidize enrollment if they want to enforce this policy....but if the institution wants to to benefit from federal funds, it will have to play by federal rules.
My daughter is beginning the college application process. Good to know Pepperdine is one to cross of the list... |
The issue is that there are zero legal federal protections on the basis of sexual orientation (despite the GOP lies to the contrary), so the financial aid issue does not come up. You are perfectly within your legal rights federally to discriminate against gay people to your heart's content. That is not true for your other examples, like national origin and religion (with a few narrow exceptions) because those are explicitly against federal law.
Even religious colleges have to comply with federal laws if they way federal student aid money - a small number of colleges eschew federal aid so they have the freedom to follow those nondiscrimination policies. This is not an issue for schools that want to discrimination based on sexual orientation.
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dtrain34
Joined: 17 Aug 2010
Posts: 409
Location: Lacey, Washington
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| Posted: 12/16/14 7:47 pm ::: |
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While I disagree with Pepperdine's stance there's a stereotyping assumption in this thread that I'm sure is well-meaning but which bugs me as an example of unchecked facts in 21st Century debate.
Unless some one here is familiar with the Ogumike family, we have no way to know that they don't support the policy. Just because their big sisters played the sport at a high level doesn't mean they share all the expected progressive beliefs of the day.
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Carol Anne
Joined: 09 Apr 2005
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Location: Seattle
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
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| Posted: 12/17/14 5:19 pm ::: |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
| beknighted wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
| PUmatty wrote: |
Pepperdine states, in their student handbook, that gay students face discipline from the university, including expulsion. If the basketball team doesn't allow lesbians, it is just in line with the rest of the university.
Not sure why the WCBB community does not believe these student handbook and university rules exist and matter. Pepperdine is not the only school where this is the case, including at least two schools with much more prominent WCBB profiles. |
I think it will be interesting in the coming years to see if those kinds of rules will stand under threat of the removal of federal funding.
I also think a private university has every right to have its own rules and regulations. It's not a public business like a restaurant, say, and though I could be mistaken, I think it's legal for a business to restrict its customer base if it so desires. (I'm not so sure about employees, though ...) |
For private businesses, it depends on whether you're a public accommodation under the federal Civil Rights Act. A lunch counter or a hotel can't say it won't take blacks or Jews or women, for instance. In some places, similar rules apply for gays, but there's unfortunately no national law on that point right now. As you identify, the key law for most schools is the law that governs federal funding, which today does not cover discrimination against non-heterosexuals. |
There is a nondiscrimination law in California, but Pepperdine and other religious colleges operate as religious non-profits. Those are typically not covered in the same was as businesses. |
Not entirely correct. A number of years back, the California courts held that schools (all schools - high schools and colleges, private or public) were not "businesses" as defined in the state law governing discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. As I understand it, California passed a new law this year to fix that, but it's currently being held up in the courts and may be subject to a referendum before it goes into effect.
The Free Exercise Clause protection for religious institutions is actually fairly narrow and likely would not bar a state law banning sexual orientation discrimination against students in colleges which happen to be affiliated with a church (in contrast to, say, a seminary, or a religion teacher at such a school).
And certainly a state or the Feds could tie a ban on discrimination to funding or tax exemptions, but Title IX presently does not bar discrimination based on sexual preference (although it has been interpreted as barring bullying of transgender individuals because that is considered as based on sex, not on sexual orientation). Given the results of the election last month, it's pretty obvious that Title IX is not going to be expanded any time soon. So right now there is no threat of removal of federal funding.
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AJMMs
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 139
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| Posted: 12/17/14 10:33 pm ::: |
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This just made the 5 o'clock news on the CBS local affiliate here in L.A. Wonder how or if this is effecting the Pepperdine players. I'm sure the negative distraction has to be tough to play through. Just ask the Clippers. Even the pros can't block out negative situations that occur from within brought out to light. I root for all of the local programs, LB State, Pepperdine, LMU, UC Irvine, UC Riverside, etc. so I feel for the players and was hoping the Oguimike's could help the Waves do something nice on the court before they graduarte.
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BallState1984
Joined: 27 Aug 2006
Posts: 1892
Location: Halfway between Muncie and West Lafayette
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| Posted: 12/18/14 7:32 am ::: |
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| Are they talking about gay players in general, or gay players dating each other, which is an entirely different animal?
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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Location: Queens
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| Posted: 12/18/14 1:58 pm ::: |
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| AJMMs wrote: |
This just made the 5 o'clock news on the CBS local affiliate here in L.A. Wonder how or if this is effecting the Pepperdine players. I'm sure the negative distraction has to be tough to play through. Just ask the Clippers. Even the pros can't block out negative situations that occur from within brought out to light. I root for all of the local programs, LB State, Pepperdine, LMU, UC Irvine, UC Riverside, etc. so I feel for the players and was hoping the Oguimike's could help the Waves do something nice on the court before they graduarte. |
So now this coach is going to turn around and say, "look, having these lesbians on our team has brought this whole media circus down on us, it's TEH SCARY GHEIS' fault".
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