| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
 Posted: 11/24/14 12:24 pm ::: New AP Poll is out |
Reply  |
|
As usual, the voters stubbornly cling to what they believed would be the situation in October before any games were played.
1. S.Car
2. ND
3. UConn
4. Tenn
5. Stanford
6. Texas
7. Texas A&M
8. Duke
9. Kentucky
10. Maryland
So Texas remains behind the team it beat on the road, and behind the team that team beat, and Stanford remains behind UConn.
And Tenn? Well they have a right to be pissed off.
|
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
|
Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63963
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/24/14 12:33 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Yeah, Tennessee has a right to be pissed off because they don't have to guts to play anybody good right away, and they're unbeaten. Makes sense.
_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
|
|
rizla
Joined: 29 Jul 2008
Posts: 8
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/24/14 12:43 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Shades wrote: |
Yeah, Tennessee has a right to be pissed off because they don't have to guts to play anybody good right away, and they're unbeaten. Makes sense.
No link to the poll? |
No guts?
I'll tell you who is gut deficient - Baylor and North Carolina, who pulled out of their scheduled games.
Thus, the cupcakes.
|
|
SpaceJunkie
Joined: 10 Sep 2012
Posts: 4241
Location: Minnesota
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/24/14 12:44 pm ::: Re: New AP Poll is out |
Reply |
|
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
So Texas remains behind the team it beat on the road, and behind the team that team beat, and Stanford remains behind UConn.
And Tenn? Well they have a right to be pissed off. |
Texas hasn't beaten a top-3 team like UConn this year, like Stanford has, so I see nothing wrong.
|
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/24/14 12:45 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Shades wrote: |
Yeah, Tennessee has a right to be pissed off because they don't have to guts to play anybody good right away, and they're unbeaten. Makes sense.
No link to the poll? |
So beating 2 nobodies and losing to one somebody is somehow better at this stage than beating three nobodies? There's some twisted logic.
It's not enough to play a good team, you have to win. Otherwise UCLA should without question be the unanimous #1 team in the country today.
|
|
Fighting Artichoke
Joined: 12 Dec 2012
Posts: 4076
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/24/14 12:50 pm ::: Re: New AP Poll is out |
Reply |
|
| SpaceJunkie wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
So Texas remains behind the team it beat on the road, and behind the team that team beat, and Stanford remains behind UConn.
And Tenn? Well they have a right to be pissed off. |
Texas hasn't beaten a top-3 team like UConn this year, like Stanford has, so I see nothing wrong. |
Well, Texas WOULD have played a #1 team, except that they won the game against Stanford. Plus they DID defeat the #1 team according to the coaches. Thus your logic seems strained.
|
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/24/14 12:57 pm ::: Re: New AP Poll is out |
Reply |
|
| Fighting Artichoke wrote: |
| SpaceJunkie wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
So Texas remains behind the team it beat on the road, and behind the team that team beat, and Stanford remains behind UConn.
And Tenn? Well they have a right to be pissed off. |
Texas hasn't beaten a top-3 team like UConn this year, like Stanford has, so I see nothing wrong. |
Well, Texas WOULD have played a #1 team, except that they won the game against Stanford. Plus they DID defeat the #1 team according to the coaches. Thus your logic seems strained. |
Also conveniently absent from all that about how Texas hasn't beaten a top 3 team is any mention that UConn hasn't beaten a top 50 team. So what's their excuse with a 2-1 record for being ahead of Texas?
|
|
Fighting Artichoke
Joined: 12 Dec 2012
Posts: 4076
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/24/14 12:59 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| What I find weird is that UCLA received 4 points in the poll, despite an 0-3 record where their closet margin of defeat was 10 points. I realize that they have played a brutal schedule, but do people really think their resume suggests they're worthy of being in the top 25? At some point, it seems a team needs to win, or at least lose a game by only single digits.
|
|
SpaceJunkie
Joined: 10 Sep 2012
Posts: 4241
Location: Minnesota
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/24/14 12:59 pm ::: Re: New AP Poll is out |
Reply |
|
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Fighting Artichoke wrote: |
| SpaceJunkie wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
So Texas remains behind the team it beat on the road, and behind the team that team beat, and Stanford remains behind UConn.
And Tenn? Well they have a right to be pissed off. |
Texas hasn't beaten a top-3 team like UConn this year, like Stanford has, so I see nothing wrong. |
Well, Texas WOULD have played a #1 team, except that they won the game against Stanford. Plus they DID defeat the #1 team according to the coaches. Thus your logic seems strained. |
Also conveniently absent from all that about how Texas hasn't beaten a top 3 team is any mention that UConn hasn't beaten a top 50 team. So what's their excuse with a 2-1 record for being ahead of Texas? |
They're the defending champions, preseason overwhelming favorites to win this year, and nobody else has proved to be undoubtedly better than them so far.
|
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/24/14 1:07 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Fighting Artichoke wrote: |
| What I find weird is that UCLA received 4 points in the poll, despite an 0-3 record where their closet margin of defeat was 10 points. I realize that they have played a brutal schedule, but do people really think their resume suggests they're worthy of being in the top 25? At some point, it seems a team needs to win, or at least lose a game by only single digits. |
You're right. Winning matters.
So which is sillier, UCLA getting a 21st place vote, or UConn getting a 1st place vote? The latter is far more indefensible.
|
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/24/14 1:09 pm ::: Re: New AP Poll is out |
Reply |
|
| SpaceJunkie wrote: |
They're the defending champions, preseason overwhelming favorites to win this year, and nobody else has proved to be undoubtedly better than them so far. |
So they should remain #1 evidently, because a different UConn team made up of different players won the championship last year.
They lost. Deal with it.
|
|
larmarch5
Joined: 31 Jul 2014
Posts: 424
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/24/14 1:11 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Texas plays Tennessee Sunday in Austin. FOX Sports 1 is broadcasting the game.
Tennessee plays Stanford 12/20/14 in TN. SEC Network broadcasting.
|
|
SpaceJunkie
Joined: 10 Sep 2012
Posts: 4241
Location: Minnesota
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/24/14 1:17 pm ::: Re: New AP Poll is out |
Reply |
|
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| SpaceJunkie wrote: |
They're the defending champions, preseason overwhelming favorites to win this year, and nobody else has proved to be undoubtedly better than them so far. |
So they should remain #1 evidently, because a different UConn team made up of different players won the championship last year.
They lost. Deal with it. |
You're the only one who is crying. UConn barely lost to the #5 team in the country; I don't see Tenneessee having played any top teams yet this season to prove they'd do better. UConn would've gone 3-0 playing Tenneessee's schedule so far as well.
|
|
ucbart
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 2830
Location: New York
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/24/14 1:47 pm ::: Re: New AP Poll is out |
Reply |
|
| SpaceJunkie wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| SpaceJunkie wrote: |
They're the defending champions, preseason overwhelming favorites to win this year, and nobody else has proved to be undoubtedly better than them so far. |
So they should remain #1 evidently, because a different UConn team made up of different players won the championship last year.
They lost. Deal with it. |
You're the only one who is crying. UConn barely lost to the #5 team in the country; I don't see Tenneessee having played any top teams yet this season to prove they'd do better. UConn would've gone 3-0 playing Tenneessee's schedule so far as well. |
Stop arguing with Art. This poster has completely lost sense of reality as he/she is more concerned with tearing down UCONN than anything else. Worry about Notre Dame. It's sad really.
|
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
|
GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8281
Location: Heisenberg
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/24/14 1:52 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Conferences with votes:
ACC - 8
B10 - 7
SEC - 7
B12 - 6
P12 - 6
AAC - 2
BEC - 2
CAA - 1
CUSA - 1
Horizon - 1
Sunbelt - 1
WCC - 1 |
|
Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63963
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/24/14 1:56 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
Yeah, Tennessee has a right to be pissed off because they don't have to guts to play anybody good right away, and they're unbeaten. Makes sense.
No link to the poll? |
So beating 2 nobodies and losing to one somebody is somehow better at this stage than beating three nobodies? There's some twisted logic.
It's not enough to play a good team, you have to win. Otherwise UCLA should without question be the unanimous #1 team in the country today. |
You must not be a big fan of RPI. Isn't that how it works, no guts no glory?
Minnesota is unbeaten and has had an arguably tougher schedule than TENN, so why isn't Minnesota ahead of Tennessee in the polls? It's because of the Tennesse name and where voters think they might end up at the end of the year. So the same thing you are delighted about with Tennessee you are so angry about with Connecticut.
_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
|
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/24/14 2:12 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Shades wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
Yeah, Tennessee has a right to be pissed off because they don't have to guts to play anybody good right away, and they're unbeaten. Makes sense.
No link to the poll? |
So beating 2 nobodies and losing to one somebody is somehow better at this stage than beating three nobodies? There's some twisted logic.
It's not enough to play a good team, you have to win. Otherwise UCLA should without question be the unanimous #1 team in the country today. |
You must not be a big fan of RPI. Isn't that how it works, no guts no glory?
Minnesota is unbeaten and has had an arguably tougher schedule than TENN, so why isn't Minnesota ahead of Tennessee in the polls? It's because of the Tennesse name and where voters think they might end up at the end of the year. So the same thing you are delighted about with Tennessee you are so angry about with Connecticut. |
The RPI doesn't care about name recognition, it's based on wins and losses -- yours, your opponents', and your opponents' opponents'. Losses matter in the RPI. As do losses by your opponent. UConn lost, and its opponent lost as well. Indeed, Texas gets dragged down in the RPI because one of its opponents, UCLA, is 0-3, but is helped by UCLA's opponents being undefeated.
There's a big difference between voters making choices among undefeated teams and voters largely ignoring that a team lost, indeed, leaving that team ahead both of the team it lost to, and ahead of the team that beat the team it lost to.
I don't care one way or the other about Tenn. But I do think Tenn fans have a right to be pissed off.
Losses matter. You can complain about Tenn's schedule, but you can't ignore losses.
|
|
SpaceJunkie
Joined: 10 Sep 2012
Posts: 4241
Location: Minnesota
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/24/14 2:21 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
Yeah, Tennessee has a right to be pissed off because they don't have to guts to play anybody good right away, and they're unbeaten. Makes sense.
No link to the poll? |
So beating 2 nobodies and losing to one somebody is somehow better at this stage than beating three nobodies? There's some twisted logic.
It's not enough to play a good team, you have to win. Otherwise UCLA should without question be the unanimous #1 team in the country today. |
You must not be a big fan of RPI. Isn't that how it works, no guts no glory?
Minnesota is unbeaten and has had an arguably tougher schedule than TENN, so why isn't Minnesota ahead of Tennessee in the polls? It's because of the Tennesse name and where voters think they might end up at the end of the year. So the same thing you are delighted about with Tennessee you are so angry about with Connecticut. |
The RPI doesn't care about name recognition, it's based on wins and losses -- yours, your opponents', and your opponents' opponents'. Losses matter in the RPI. As do losses by your opponent. UConn lost, and its opponent lost as well. Indeed, Texas gets dragged down in the RPI because one of its opponents, UCLA, is 0-3, but is helped by UCLA's opponents being undefeated.
There's a big difference between voters making choices among undefeated teams and voters largely ignoring that a team lost, indeed, leaving that team ahead both of the team it lost to, and ahead of the team that beat the team it lost to.
I don't care one way or the other about Tenn. But I do think Tenn fans have a right to be pissed off.
Losses matter. You can complain about Tenn's schedule, but you can't ignore losses. |
I guess where a team is ranked in the polls is more important to some fans of teams than winning in the NCAA Tournament. 
|
|
Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63963
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/24/14 2:54 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| SpaceJunkie wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
Yeah, Tennessee has a right to be pissed off because they don't have to guts to play anybody good right away, and they're unbeaten. Makes sense.
No link to the poll? |
So beating 2 nobodies and losing to one somebody is somehow better at this stage than beating three nobodies? There's some twisted logic.
It's not enough to play a good team, you have to win. Otherwise UCLA should without question be the unanimous #1 team in the country today. |
You must not be a big fan of RPI. Isn't that how it works, no guts no glory?
Minnesota is unbeaten and has had an arguably tougher schedule than TENN, so why isn't Minnesota ahead of Tennessee in the polls? It's because of the Tennesse name and where voters think they might end up at the end of the year. So the same thing you are delighted about with Tennessee you are so angry about with Connecticut. |
The RPI doesn't care about name recognition, it's based on wins and losses -- yours, your opponents', and your opponents' opponents'. Losses matter in the RPI. As do losses by your opponent. UConn lost, and its opponent lost as well. Indeed, Texas gets dragged down in the RPI because one of its opponents, UCLA, is 0-3, but is helped by UCLA's opponents being undefeated.
There's a big difference between voters making choices among undefeated teams and voters largely ignoring that a team lost, indeed, leaving that team ahead both of the team it lost to, and ahead of the team that beat the team it lost to.
I don't care one way or the other about Tenn. But I do think Tenn fans have a right to be pissed off.
Losses matter. You can complain about Tenn's schedule, but you can't ignore losses. |
I guess where a team is ranked in the polls is more important to some fans of teams than winning in the NCAA Tournament. |
I'm sure schools value their poll placements.... for recruiting, promoting, getting television time.
_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
|
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/24/14 2:59 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Shades wrote: |
| SpaceJunkie wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
Yeah, Tennessee has a right to be pissed off because they don't have to guts to play anybody good right away, and they're unbeaten. Makes sense.
No link to the poll? |
So beating 2 nobodies and losing to one somebody is somehow better at this stage than beating three nobodies? There's some twisted logic.
It's not enough to play a good team, you have to win. Otherwise UCLA should without question be the unanimous #1 team in the country today. |
You must not be a big fan of RPI. Isn't that how it works, no guts no glory?
Minnesota is unbeaten and has had an arguably tougher schedule than TENN, so why isn't Minnesota ahead of Tennessee in the polls? It's because of the Tennesse name and where voters think they might end up at the end of the year. So the same thing you are delighted about with Tennessee you are so angry about with Connecticut. |
The RPI doesn't care about name recognition, it's based on wins and losses -- yours, your opponents', and your opponents' opponents'. Losses matter in the RPI. As do losses by your opponent. UConn lost, and its opponent lost as well. Indeed, Texas gets dragged down in the RPI because one of its opponents, UCLA, is 0-3, but is helped by UCLA's opponents being undefeated.
There's a big difference between voters making choices among undefeated teams and voters largely ignoring that a team lost, indeed, leaving that team ahead both of the team it lost to, and ahead of the team that beat the team it lost to.
I don't care one way or the other about Tenn. But I do think Tenn fans have a right to be pissed off.
Losses matter. You can complain about Tenn's schedule, but you can't ignore losses. |
I guess where a team is ranked in the polls is more important to some fans of teams than winning in the NCAA Tournament. |
I'm sure schools value their poll placements.... for recruiting, promoting, getting television time. |
And since the tournament isn't for 5 more months, it would be pretty dead around here if we didn't discuss polls and the regular season.
|
|
purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 2819
Location: Indiana
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/24/14 3:06 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
I can't stand preseason polls...in any sport. Talk about something that is full of conjecture and not based on any actual results on the field/court. Those early polls, which aren't based on a damn thing other than tradition & the previous year & personal bias, are then basically a jumping off point for future polls. And for the most part, the voters will validate their selections regardless of what happens on the court...i.e., not moving teams as much as should probably occur.
Anyway, back to the debate at hand...
|
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/24/14 3:11 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| purduefanatic wrote: |
I can't stand preseason polls...in any sport. Talk about something that is full of conjecture and not based on any actual results on the field/court. Those early polls, which aren't based on a damn thing other than tradition & the previous year & personal bias, are then basically a jumping off point for future polls. And for the most part, the voters will validate their selections regardless of what happens on the court...i.e., not moving teams as much as should probably occur.
|
x____________________
|
|
beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
Posts: 11050
Location: Lost in D.C.
Back to top |
| Posted: 11/24/14 3:49 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
I certainly agree that poll voters often react too slowly to events on the court, but at the same time I think it's reasonable not to give great weight to a single game because we all know that teams have good days and bad days, and certainly a superior team can have a bad day against a not-as-good team that's having a good day.
In this context, it's not crazy for the voters as a group to think that Stanford's win and loss don't mean either that the Cardinal are better than the Huskies or that they're worse than the Longhorns. As the sample size improves, that analysis will get tested, but leaving the Cardinal between the two teams is a good a way to reconcile the pre-season opinion with the game results as any.
Now, if you want something to fix, consider how teams in weak conferences that get into the rankings slowly move up just because they don't lose in conference play.
|
|
|
|
