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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 2819
Location: Indiana
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 Posted: 02/27/15 7:39 pm ::: |
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| loneycafe wrote: |
Just go read TDD.
Yes, but I don't think the buy out will be much of an issue with Duke. |
I'm not a member and don't feel like joining.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7845
Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 02/27/15 9:31 pm ::: |
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| Yeah, really, that kind of clickbait doesn't fly with the rest of the world. Either spill or hush up. Please and thank you.
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 2819
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: 03/05/15 6:30 pm ::: |
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With Arizona currently down by 16 in the 2nd half against UCLA, I thought about this thread and figured I would bring it back to the top.
Plus, with conference tournaments in full swing, it's just about time for the coaching carousel to start moving.
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Durantula
Joined: 30 Mar 2013
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7845
Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 03/07/15 2:08 pm ::: |
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| Because a coach is successful at a lower level does not necessarily mean they can cut it at a higher one. Heck, even some mid-major coaches flop horribly when they go to a bigger school. Look at the Lisa Stone debacle at Wisconsin.
_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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Durantula
Joined: 30 Mar 2013
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FS02
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 9699
Location: Husky (west coast) Country
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| Posted: 03/07/15 4:55 pm ::: |
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That is.... disappointing.
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@dtmears2
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patsweetpat
Joined: 14 Jul 2010
Posts: 2313
Location: Culver City, CA
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| Posted: 03/07/15 6:56 pm ::: |
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| Durantula wrote: |
| Niya Butts is returning for 2015-2016. |
Wow. I'm genuinely surprised. But okay.
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SueFavor
Joined: 20 May 2013
Posts: 387
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: 03/08/15 2:14 am ::: |
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I think the next pilight stats compilation should be the number of years it takes schools to fire a coach.
Washington State and Arizona allow long tenures. USC, not so much._________________ hoopism.blogspot.com
womenshoopsworld.com
twitter.com/hoopism
whoopsworld@aol.com |
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 2819
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: 03/08/15 12:57 pm ::: |
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Wow. I am stunned.
"We signed her to a five-year contract and we are going to let her see that through."
I have only seen the 'Cats play a couple of times so I could be way off, but I didn't see anything that said to me "Butts is the coach to get this team back into the NCAA Tournament."
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 11149
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| Posted: 03/08/15 1:04 pm ::: |
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| Translation: We don't care how good our women's basketball team is.
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Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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NoDakSt
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 4929
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| Posted: 03/08/15 1:24 pm ::: |
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I wonder how much the popularity of the Chillin' 4 Charity figures into this. Did Butts earn a year by kicking off a huge philanthropic effort and the AD feels compelled to let the contract ride out.
Well never know I guess.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7845
Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 03/08/15 1:29 pm ::: |
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| Some ADs are football guys. Like the previous and current ones at UW-Madison. Frankly I think the current one at Tennessee is too...IF he's anything but a sockpuppet. But I digress.
_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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Durantula
Joined: 30 Mar 2013
Posts: 5223
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| Posted: 03/08/15 2:08 pm ::: |
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I figured Arizona would be the job to open in the PAC but it ends up being Utah.
Utah had to transition to a much tougher league so the first few years you are playing a PAC schedule with a roster built on another league. Maybe I'd give the coach a little more time to recruit to the new league but too late now.
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: 03/08/15 11:18 pm ::: |
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| Durantula wrote: |
I figured Arizona would be the job to open in the PAC but it ends up being Utah.
Utah had to transition to a much tougher league so the first few years you are playing a PAC schedule with a roster built on another league. Maybe I'd give the coach a little more time to recruit to the new league but too late now. |
And he had injuries to deal with. There were 2 players that had season-ending injuries last year and five expected rotation players this year.
He had two years left on his contract.
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Durantula
Joined: 30 Mar 2013
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| Posted: 03/09/15 5:34 pm ::: |
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Reply to ArtBest23 post about Kansas being dead end job for young up and comer:
Is it that bad of a job? BCS jobs not easy to come by and Having a legendary men's program has to help in a few areas, they play in a famous arena, they probably have great practice facilities. If you are from that region how many jobs can you wait for to open up? Is Kansas State much better? Or Missouri, Colorado, or some of the other schools in the bordering states? Just having a good men's program isn't enough since some teams like Arizona have bad women's programs but I have to think it helps in some areas.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
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| Posted: 03/10/15 10:45 am ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
Kansas is probably one of those jobs that you hope a talented rising star is smart enough not to take.
It's probably a career dead end. |
I'm not disagreeing, but why? They spent money on Henricksen.
I don't know anything about facilities, but I'm guessing they're pretty good. Good conference, etc. |
It's not the money. I'm just not convinced you can win there.
Take as an example Tsipis at GW. At some point he's going to get offered a lot more money than GW can pay to go to a major conference school. I would hope he would be patient and wait for a job at a better program where he has the opportunity to build a real winning program. It will come.
A place like Purdue for example is a school with a winning tradition in WBB in a state that produces a lot more major prospects. That would present a genuine opportunity to turn around and build something with unlimited potential. And it will be open soon enough. Heck, Rutgers might be open in the next couple of years. Or UVA. Or Florida. All jobs that are likely to be open sooner rather than later and would be worth waiting for. I don't believe Kansas presents that kind of opportunity. I think it has a pretty low ceiling and is a dead end job. And salary and facilities have nothing to do with it. No tradition, and you just can't change geography. No real in-state recruiting base, and not a place to which top national recruits are likely to be attracted. If you're a rising star like Tsipis with a good pedigree and track record who has a solid mid major job, I hope you're patient and wait for an appropriate opportunity where you can actually win.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 03/10/15 10:53 am ::: |
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| Durantula wrote: |
Reply to ArtBest23 post about Kansas being dead end job for young up and comer:
Is it that bad of a job? BCS jobs not easy to come by and Having a legendary men's program has to help in a few areas, they play in a famous arena, they probably have great practice facilities. If you are from that region how many jobs can you wait for to open up? Is Kansas State much better? Or Missouri, Colorado, or some of the other schools in the bordering states? Just having a good men's program isn't enough since some teams like Arizona have bad women's programs but I have to think it helps in some areas. |
If you're a good B12 assistant or a coach at a small school from the plains states (or even better a former B12 ass't now HC at a small plains state school), that's probably a great job. I was refering more to rising coaches who already have decent jobs with national visibility and have "national power" potential and aspirations.
A succesful coach at a small plains state school with established recruiting ties in the region would probably be ideal for the job and that would probably be a great job for them. But I think the ceiling is limited.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7845
Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 03/10/15 12:37 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Durantula wrote: |
Reply to ArtBest23 post about Kansas being dead end job for young up and comer:
Is it that bad of a job? BCS jobs not easy to come by and Having a legendary men's program has to help in a few areas, they play in a famous arena, they probably have great practice facilities. If you are from that region how many jobs can you wait for to open up? Is Kansas State much better? Or Missouri, Colorado, or some of the other schools in the bordering states? Just having a good men's program isn't enough since some teams like Arizona have bad women's programs but I have to think it helps in some areas. |
If you're a good B12 assistant or a coach at a small school from the plains states (or even better a former B12 ass't now HC at a small plains state school), that's probably a great job. I was refering more to rising coaches who already have decent jobs with national visibility and have "national power" potential and aspirations.
A succesful coach at a small plains state school with established recruiting ties in the region would probably be ideal for the job and that would probably be a great job for them. But I think the ceiling is limited. |
Sorry, but I think you're displaying a certain type of old boy, eastern snobbery here, Art. A good coach can build a program anywhere. Where was UConn before Geno got hold of it? Besides which, Kansas is not exactly "nowhere". Kansas State, prior to the recent uproar, had an extremely respectable program and did decently in the NCAA in years past. Other Midwest and plains state schools do too....I mean, Oklahoma is right next door! (Speaking of which, Oklahoma wasn't all that before Sherri Coale, either). Midwesterners know and love WBB and the girls play a different style than they do back east, a lot more run-and-shoot and a little less street ball. Lawrence, KS is not as provincial as you would like to think. Kansas is not where I would choose to live, but that's because of the climate, mostly. So I think your view may be what's limited and not the ceiling.
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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mildred
Joined: 19 Jan 2015
Posts: 16
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| Posted: 03/10/15 10:52 pm ::: |
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| Agree with ArtBest23 on Tsipis. It doesn't appear a lot of BCS/Power 5 jobs will come open this year. He's best to wait. Only a matter of time before a job like Purdue comes open. FYI he beat Purdue by 20 this year.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 03/11/15 12:12 am ::: |
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PRballer
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 03/11/15 2:07 am ::: |
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It's gonna be an important hire for Kansas. Mittie at Kansas State might be turning that program around.
I disagree that it's bad WCBB head coaching job - Marian Washington was relatively successful in the Big Eight days, so it will come down to recruiting for the new head coach.
Good players came through during the Hendrickson era, but she never got top flight talent to Lawrence.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 03/11/15 8:32 am ::: |
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In 33 years of the tournament, Kansas has gone all of 13 times, only twice in the last 14 years, and has never made it past the sweet sixteen. It's never been "succesful." It may not even rise to the definition of "mediocre". It certainly isn't "good". And there is no reason to think it is ever going to become any better than that on any consistant basis. Wishing it so doesn't alter reality.
This guy is set up to next move up and coach a program with the potential to become elite. He can attract better talent and win more easily where he is today than he would ever be able to at Kansas. It's a dead end job for someone with a resume like Tsipis has. He'd be wasting himself.
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mzonefan
Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 4878
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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| Posted: 03/11/15 12:54 pm ::: |
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| Marian took KU to a post-season tournament 16 out of her 30 years. I'd agree with PR Baller and call that "relatively successful".
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 03/11/15 1:50 pm ::: |
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| mzonefan wrote: |
| Marian took KU to a post-season tournament 16 out of her 30 years. I'd agree with PR Baller and call that "relatively successful". |
You can call it what you want. Personally I call it mediocre at best. The label is irrelevant. Regardless of what you call it, someone like Tsipis should be waiting for a job at a school with a much higher ceiling than that.
You know George Washington has been to the NCAA Tournament more times, and has advanced farther, than Kansas? Why should he make that move?
If you were the AD, how would you convince Tsipis that he has a bona fide opportunity to come in and build a national championship contender at Kansas? Because I expect that's what he's looking for at his next stop. What would you say to him. What history or background or facts would you provide him to convince him?
Or is this simply, "yeah, we stink, but we're in a P5 conference, we have a nice gym and practice facility, and we'll pay you more money." I hope there's more to say that that. But I doubt there is.
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