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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7845
Location: Shenandoah Valley
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 Posted: 02/06/15 10:40 am ::: |
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| BallState1984 wrote: |
| Lillian Hidgepork wrote: |
| grrlagent wrote: |
| LitePal wrote: |
| My point being that salaries for wbb are totally out of control and it becomes a coin flip as to who will be successful. The spending of ADs to land a "big name" is bound to occasionally backfire, especially when someone like Caldwell was selected because everyone drank the Kool-Aid. |
I have to say that I drank the Kool-Aid. It turns out it was a knock-off supermarket brand I drank. We. Are. Screwed. LSU is not going to buy her out for at least 3 or 4 years. She'll run the program down even more than Van would have primarily because she can't recruit and she can't coach offense. Maybe Tyler will bloom and join the SEC in 2019.
Can you say 2-4 y'all? AND we play Tyler and his Techsters tonight. Ought to be interesting. |
You know I understand you are not bashing Tyler, but I want to comment on it. There are alot of posters on here that bashed or bashes Tyler Summitt. He is doing a great job there in his first year and his recruiting has been solid, actually above solid. He will not be the next coach at LSU. He will be the next coach at Tennessee. |
Right. DeMoss is the one coaching LA Tech. Skippy is there for the name. |
I know you would like to think that's true, just because. I suggest you take a little closer look. Of course you wouldn't believe your eyes anyway, because you don't want to, being vociferously anti-Tyler.
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 02/06/15 10:48 am ::: |
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| PlayBally'all wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| Kellie was an assistant at Auburn for 2-3 years when she first graduated from UT. I didn't know she'd interviewed for the HC job. It's a little surprising she wasn't offered, considering that. I think she'd have been better than TWF; she has some history there at least. She seems to be building a nice program at Missouri State, one step at a time. Auburn was a worthy opponent under Ciampi and Fortner but they are just sad now. It looks to me like TWF either can't recruit, or doesn't know what to do with them once she gets them, because the program has sure deteriorated. SMDH. |
I totally agree. We were all surprised. On paper, Terri Williams-Flournoy (TWF) did have the better resume, however, as we all know, sometimes the resume alone doesn't make a coach a good fit for a program. Kellie was a good fit. Jody Adams would also be a good fit. Jody and Kellie are in some ways very different, but they both get the culture and are very good x's and o's coaches. |
Seeing how Jolly-Harper did in her first major conference stint at NC State, I doubt she would have been an improvement over Williams-Flournoy.
I like TWF. I think she'll get it turned around given enough time. The team was trending downward under Fortner, so it should be no surprise that it's taking some time to right the ship.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 02/06/15 12:59 pm ::: |
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It's always hard, some would say impossible, to follow a legend. Wes Moore isn't doing all that great either. NC State is solidly mired in the lower middle of the ACC.
Auburn has declined seriously in the 3 years since TWF took over. They are currently winless in the SEC and could conceivably finish the season that way. This is an improvement? Kellie had both SEC ties and Auburn ties, something TWF did not. I'm not impressed thus far with TWF at all and don't consider her a worthy successor to Ciampi OR Fortner.
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 02/06/15 2:08 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
Wes Moore isn't doing all that great either. NC State is solidly mired in the lower middle of the ACC.
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Really? He took over a team that had been to the NCAA Tournament once in six years, was finishing 8th to 10th every year in the ACC, had the year before finished 17-17 overall and 7-11 in the conference, and immediately turned them around into an NCAA Tournament team with a 25-8 record (11-5 in conference) in the strongest year the ACC had had in several years. His team finished ranked #21 in the country and 4th in the ACC behind two final four teams and the # 13 ranked team in the country. It was only the second time in a decade and the first time since 2007 that they had finished a season in the top 25.
Everyone knew that this second year would be a total rebuilding year because of graduation losses and the total lack of height, but so far his turnaround has by any measure been a great success.
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7845
Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 02/06/15 2:49 pm ::: |
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| Meh. He's got 4 freshmen and 5 upperclassmen on a squad of 13. They're 12-10 overall on a largely cupcake OOC schedule, and 3-6 in the conference. Even in a "rebuilding year", shouldn't they be doing better than that? Or are you just picking a fight for the sake of picking a fight?
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 02/06/15 4:00 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| Meh. He's got 4 freshmen and 5 upperclassmen on a squad of 13. They're 12-10 overall on a largely cupcake OOC schedule, and 3-6 in the conference. Even in a "rebuilding year", shouldn't they be doing better than that? Or are you just picking a fight for the sake of picking a fight? |
Do you actually pay attention to reality before making statements like "Wes Moore isn't doing all that great either." Last year's job was tremendous. ESPN named him their ACC coach of the year last year. This year they were picked to finish 10th by the ACC coaches. And that was before lost their starting senior PG and their best freshman to injuries for the year. And their expected center from Bosnia is still waiting on clearance from the NCAA. Even with that they are currently 11th so they're about as expected. So no, the ACC coaches were paying enough attention to understand the team's losses and the rebuilding project underway. And they've lost some key pieces after that. They were not expected to do any better than they are doing. That they are doing as well as they are considering the losses is an accomplishment.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 02/06/15 4:14 pm ::: |
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| About what I expected.
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 02/06/15 4:50 pm ::: |
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Only in Tennessee would ACC Coach of the Year = isn't doing all that great
About as expected is right.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 02/06/15 6:52 pm ::: |
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| Won't be ACC coach of the year this year.
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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Durantula
Joined: 30 Mar 2013
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| Posted: 02/06/15 8:28 pm ::: |
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What Wes Moore did last year was really good and he deserves a ton of credit but he was fortunate to inherit a frontline with Gatling and Burke. What I want to see is whether he can bring in talent, but you cannot deny he did more with that team last year than their previous coach.
I don't think NC State has any impact freshman this year, which would be Moore's first recruiting class. Let's see how his recruits for next year look as he continues to build that program with his own players.
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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Location: Indiana
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| Posted: 02/06/15 8:38 pm ::: |
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| Durantula wrote: |
What Wes Moore did last year was really good and he deserves a ton of credit but he was fortunate to inherit a frontline with Gatling and Burke. What I want to see is whether he can bring in talent, but you cannot deny he did more with that team last year than their previous coach.
I don't think NC State has any impact freshman this year, which would be Moore's first recruiting class. Let's see how his recruits for next year look as he continues to build that program with his own players. |
To be fair, he was hired April 5th. To say he would have been behind in recruiting ACC level talent would be an understatement. The majority of top recruits would have already been committed or narrowed down to their top few schools. The next couple of classes would be a much better gauge than the one that is currently enrolled at the school.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 02/06/15 11:08 pm ::: |
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| One thing about Moore, although he may be good with Xs and Os, is that I was never very impressed with the conditioning of his players at Chattanooga.He usually had two or more each year who at other schools would be consigned to the weight room and/or the pool before they'd get off the bench much. One player transferred from UT to Chattanooga and the next time I saw her she'd gained at least 25 lbs. Yikes. Jim Foster's Chattanooga players are in a lot better shape and move faster.
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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joetro
Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 334
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| Posted: 02/07/15 12:44 am ::: |
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| What's going on at UCSB? 0-21 for a once proud program?
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 02/07/15 9:38 am ::: |
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Sad days at my alma mater ...
It's pretty clear hiring a coach from the East Coast (Rutgers) did not work out ... and she's had almost no presence in the Bay Area since her arrival.
Presumably we'll have someone new next year, and you know, that's a program with potential. Santa Barbara is beautiful, the education is excellent and they have a nice arena -- no reason the team can't be competitive year after year, as it was under Mark French.
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 02/07/15 2:32 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
Sad days at my alma mater ...
It's pretty clear hiring a coach from the East Coast (Rutgers) did not work out ... and she's had almost no presence in the Bay Area since her arrival.
Presumably we'll have someone new next year, and you know, that's a program with potential. Santa Barbara is beautiful, the education is excellent and they have a nice arena -- no reason the team can't be competitive year after year, as it was under Mark French. |
I honestly thought Mitchell would be a good hire, and she started off well with a team that she hadn't recruited, which I think made a lot of people feel like it would work out. Unfortunately, it's been downhill since then, which looks like a recruiting issue to me. I would guess there are two factors - UCSB traditionally draws from California, which didn't match up with her more national recruiting contacts; and the kinds of players she recruited at RU weren't going to go to UCSB. She just wasn't able to adapt.
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Happycappie25
Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 4174
Location: QUEENS!!!!
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| Posted: 02/07/15 5:01 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
Sad days at my alma mater ...
It's pretty clear hiring a coach from the East Coast (Rutgers) did not work out ... and she's had almost no presence in the Bay Area since her arrival.
Presumably we'll have someone new next year, and you know, that's a program with potential. Santa Barbara is beautiful, the education is excellent and they have a nice arena -- no reason the team can't be competitive year after year, as it was under Mark French. |
And Gottleib....really another example that in college, you can NOT attempt to reinvent the wheel. You have to go within the system that was built...the recruting ties are just too frail to break...only time you change the SYSTEM is when the recruiting is dry and you're admitting to starting over from step 1
Also odd factoid...but IF this holds (and they are on the 2nd go around so this isn't looking good) Mitchell will become the 2nd Rutgers Assistant to leave to become a head coach only to end up DROPPING THE TABLE...eek
(The other was Andruzzi in 2007)
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jimwbb
Joined: 18 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 02/07/15 5:38 pm ::: |
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| Third - don't forget Jolette Law, who left CViv's side at Rutgers for a disastrous tenure as Illinois HC, before returning to the assistant ranks at Tennessee.
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Happycappie25
Joined: 07 Feb 2006
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Location: QUEENS!!!!
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| Posted: 02/07/15 6:05 pm ::: |
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| jimwbb wrote: |
| Third - don't forget Jolette Law, who left CViv's side at Rutgers for a disastrous tenure as Illinois HC, before returning to the assistant ranks at Tennessee. |
No...Law was bad, but she did not lose every game on the schedule...im talking about a special kind of special here
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 02/07/15 6:11 pm ::: |
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| Happycappie25 wrote: |
| jimwbb wrote: |
| Third - don't forget Jolette Law, who left CViv's side at Rutgers for a disastrous tenure as Illinois HC, before returning to the assistant ranks at Tennessee. |
No...Law was bad, but she did not lose every game on the schedule...im talking about a special kind of special here |
Sadly, you're right. In both cases, they actually did better than expected the first year and then things declined. It makes me think that, perhaps, their recruiting prowess had something to do with the head coach.
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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| Posted: 02/07/15 6:55 pm ::: |
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| joetro wrote: |
| What's going on at UCSB? 0-21 for a once proud program? |
It's unfortunate that UC Santa Barbara has had such a significant drop. They have such a rich history, and have been a force in the Big West for many years, even being known nationally as a team that can't be overlooked.
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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| Posted: 02/07/15 11:23 pm ::: |
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| GEF34 wrote: |
| joetro wrote: |
| What's going on at UCSB? 0-21 for a once proud program? |
It's unfortunate that UC Santa Barbara has had such a significant drop. They have such a rich history, and have been a force in the Big West for many years, even being known nationally as a team that can't be overlooked. |
I remember coaching in the NCAA Tournament there and after our practice the day before our 1st round game, we literally walked out of the gym, went across the street and the team jumped in the ocean.
To say Santa Barbara is beautiful is an understatement. I'm glad I didn't go to school there because I would certainly not have fared very well as I would have been on the beach far too often lol.
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ladydawgs96
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
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| Posted: 02/09/15 8:23 am ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
It's always hard, some would say impossible, to follow a legend. Wes Moore isn't doing all that great either. NC State is solidly mired in the lower middle of the ACC.
Auburn has declined seriously in the 3 years since TWF took over. They are currently winless in the SEC and could conceivably finish the season that way. This is an improvement? Kellie had both SEC ties and Auburn ties, something TWF did not. I'm not impressed thus far with TWF at all and don't consider her a worthy successor to Ciampi OR Fortner. |
TWF was an assistant at Georgia for six years, so she does have ties to the SEC. I was surprised that she didn't try to stay in the DMV area as that was where she's from. Still, she was a better hire than Harper. Georgetown was better than they had been before her whereas NC State was definitely trending down when Harper left. I think it is kind of silly to sit and argue that the coach of a non power 5 conference school who is 8-13 would be a better hire than the coach who is currently 9-15. Nothing suggests that Harper would have any better results at Auburn.
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patsweetpat
Joined: 14 Jul 2010
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Location: Culver City, CA
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| Posted: 02/09/15 1:15 pm ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| FollowtheCardinalRule wrote: |
Butts at Arizona.
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getting toward end of season and yeah, they're still abysmal. Good men's program, no reason the women should be this bad. Hard to see why they keep her... SEVEN F Years!
Niya Butts is hard-working, energetic and dedicated, Arizona Athletics Director Greg Byrne said. She is one of the rising stars in the coaching ranks and we are thrilled to have her here at the University of Arizona. Her commitment to excellence, on and off the court, is unmatched and she continues to build on the tradition of Arizona womens basketball. She and her staff are great at bringing in and developing young talent. The future is bright for Coach Butts and her squad.
yeah right. |
It's ironic, in retrospect, that a Stanford fan put the Cats on blast.
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IM in OC
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 999
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: 02/09/15 2:05 pm ::: |
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| patsweetpat wrote: |
| myrtle wrote: |
| FollowtheCardinalRule wrote: |
Butts at Arizona.
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getting toward end of season and yeah, they're still abysmal. Good men's program, no reason the women should be this bad. Hard to see why they keep her... SEVEN F Years!
Niya Butts is hard-working, energetic and dedicated, Arizona Athletics Director Greg Byrne said. She is one of the rising stars in the coaching ranks and we are thrilled to have her here at the University of Arizona. Her commitment to excellence, on and off the court, is unmatched and she continues to build on the tradition of Arizona womens basketball. She and her staff are great at bringing in and developing young talent. The future is bright for Coach Butts and her squad.
yeah right. |
It's ironic, in retrospect, that a Stanford fan put the Cats on blast. |
IMO there is a better chance that Butts is coaching UA next year than TVD is coaching Stanford. I think TVD may retire after this year.
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