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Happycappie25
Joined: 07 Feb 2006
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 Posted: 11/11/14 8:37 am ::: there is only ONE Lady Vols Team |
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http://espn.go.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/11855869/tennessee-volunteers-abandon-use-lady-vols-women-basketball
This seems interesting and it's obvious pat had a hand in this...I am normally opposed to the Lady moniker on general principles (and let's not go into Penn State) but this makes sense. I know there are larger issues at play here (the Jennings Lawsuit) but it's a fair compromise
Then again how big Pat is to Basketball I'd say drop the Lady Vol name...but have Men's basketball adopt the blue stripe...same idea LOL but that's just me.
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Phil
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 11/11/14 8:46 am ::: |
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| I saw the announcement of the brand restructuring a few weeks ago, and wrote to the spokesperson to ask about the impact on the Lady Vols logos, which were not discussed in the original write-up. I did not get a response, perhaps because they hadn't yet sorted it out.
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hyperetic
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 11/11/14 8:56 am ::: |
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| Reminds me of when the Razorbacks dropped Lady Razorbacks/Lady 'Backs |
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 11/11/14 11:23 am ::: |
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| Heartless Dave is an asshat and this is all his doing. I don't care how much he cloaks it in the Nike brand. That is all.
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It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 11/11/14 1:25 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| Heartless Dave is an asshat and this is all his doing. I don't care how much he cloaks it in the Nike brand. That is all. |
So he's an asshat for moving into the 21st century? Tacking "lady" in front of the school nickname was considered fine in the days of Ozzie and Harriett, but I think a majority of people consider it condescending to the women athletes in this day and age.
When I saw the exception being made for women's basketball it struck me as just another manifestation of the cult of personality that still prevails in Knoxville.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 11/11/14 2:49 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| Heartless Dave is an asshat and this is all his doing. I don't care how much he cloaks it in the Nike brand. That is all. |
So he's an asshat for moving into the 21st century? Tacking "lady" in front of the school nickname was considered fine in the days of Ozzie and Harriett, but I think a majority of people consider it condescending to the women athletes in this day and age.
When I saw the exception being made for women's basketball it struck me as just another manifestation of the cult of personality that still prevails in Knoxville. |
This is not proving popular either with fans OR with former Lady Vols. You may fold your opinion five ways and sit on it.
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 11/11/14 2:49 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| Heartless Dave is an asshat and this is all his doing. I don't care how much he cloaks it in the Nike brand. That is all. |
So he's an asshat for moving into the 21st century? Tacking "lady" in front of the school nickname was considered fine in the days of Ozzie and Harriett, but I think a majority of people consider it condescending to the women athletes in this day and age.
When I saw the exception being made for women's basketball it struck me as just another manifestation of the cult of personality that still prevails in Knoxville. |
This is not proving popular either with fans OR with former Lady Vols. You may fold your opinion five ways and sit on it.
_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 11/11/14 3:03 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| Heartless Dave is an asshat and this is all his doing. I don't care how much he cloaks it in the Nike brand. That is all. |
So he's an asshat for moving into the 21st century? Tacking "lady" in front of the school nickname was considered fine in the days of Ozzie and Harriett, but I think a majority of people consider it condescending to the women athletes in this day and age.
When I saw the exception being made for women's basketball it struck me as just another manifestation of the cult of personality that still prevails in Knoxville. |
This is not proving popular either with fans OR with former Lady Vols. You may fold your opinion five ways and sit on it. |
Some vocal people don't want the name Redskins changed either.
That doesn't mean it shouldn't be changed.
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Happycappie25
Joined: 07 Feb 2006
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Location: QUEENS!!!!
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| Posted: 11/11/14 3:04 pm ::: |
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sometimes the Archane and outdated become enough a part of the Aura that it needs to stay. Because it's part of the tradition and the image of timeless greatness.
No names on the back of the Yankees jerseys.
No sponsors/charity sponsors on FC Barcalona (Yes I know they finally caved but it took a very long time)
Lace up collars on NY Ranger Jerseys
one sided helmets on the Pittsburgh Steelers.
the Lady vol name is that to WBB...I'm fine with it staying as it honors the era of Pat Summitt, 8 titles, over 1000 wins and a 100% graduation rate.
Normally I side with Art...I am normally opposed to the Lady Moniker for the same reasons...it's belittling. Or worse celebrates the wrong kind of era (PENN STATE!). I have gotten into tweet fights with Steve Lavin for using it inappropriately in reference to St. John's
But Lady Vols (And Lady Techsters which is a whole other can since it's a complete departure from the team name) are a mystique onto themselves.
Im glad they made this compromise...it was needed.
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"Leave it to the NCAA women's basketball committee to turn a glass slipper into glass ceiling" Graham Hays
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Youth Coach
Joined: 23 Mar 2008
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| Posted: 11/11/14 3:42 pm ::: |
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To be honest, I usually only thought of the basketball team as the Lady Vols.
But the notion of the "One Tennessee" is a bit comical.
Why wouldn't the women's teams want to be identified separately? The women's teams have been consistently better than the men's teams for a number of years now.
I wouldn't want to be tagged with the losing stench the men's basketball and football teams have had lately either. |
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bekcat1
Joined: 24 Feb 2011
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Location: The ATL
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| Posted: 11/13/14 3:23 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| Heartless Dave is an asshat and this is all his doing. I don't care how much he cloaks it in the Nike brand. That is all. |
So he's an asshat for moving into the 21st century? Tacking "lady" in front of the school nickname was considered fine in the days of Ozzie and Harriett, but I think a majority of people consider it condescending to the women athletes in this day and age.
When I saw the exception being made for women's basketball it struck me as just another manifestation of the cult of personality that still prevails in Knoxville. |
This is not proving popular either with fans OR with former Lady Vols. You may fold your opinion five ways and sit on it. |
Some vocal people don't want the name Redskins changed either.
That doesn't mean it shouldn't be changed. |
To say lady is as demeaning as redskins is ludicrous at best. Lady is a term of respect. It describes a woman with class, self-confidence, high standards. How some people have turned it into a belittling term is beyond me. When did it become so wrong to be a lady anyhow?
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Youth Coach
Joined: 23 Mar 2008
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| Posted: 11/13/14 4:22 pm ::: |
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Christine Brennan had her usual complaint filled column about this topic in today's USA Today.
I swear that woman does nothing but complain about sports in every way imaginable lately.
She's become a chore and a bore to read. |
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 11/13/14 6:04 pm ::: |
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| bekcat1 wrote: |
| To say lady is as demeaning as redskins is ludicrous at best. Lady is a term of respect. It describes a woman with class, self-confidence, high standards. How some people have turned it into a belittling term is beyond me. When did it become so wrong to be a lady anyhow? |
I'm sure the term is fine when used in the Queen's box at Ascot. And redskin is fine when applied to potatoes too. But neither belongs on a sports team name.
When applied to women's college sports teams it is and has always been used to belittle the women's teams and distinguish them from the "real" teams playing men's games.
They're athletes, representing the university, just like the men, and deserve the same knickname. It's just one more archaic mark of second class citizenry that should vanish. The school has a nickname. ALL athletes representing the school have earned the right to wear that name. Thankfully most people and schools have recognized that.
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CalwbbFan
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: 11/13/14 7:31 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| bekcat1 wrote: |
| To say lady is as demeaning as redskins is ludicrous at best. Lady is a term of respect. It describes a woman with class, self-confidence, high standards. How some people have turned it into a belittling term is beyond me. When did it become so wrong to be a lady anyhow? |
I'm sure the term is fine when used in the Queen's box at Ascot. And redskin is fine when applied to potatoes too. But neither belongs on a sports team name.
When applied to women's college sports teams it is and has always been used to belittle the women's teams and distinguish them from the "real" teams playing men's games.
They're athletes, representing the university, just like the men, and deserve the same knickname. It's just one more archaic mark of second class citizenry that should vanish. The school has a nickname. ALL athletes representing the school have earned the right to wear that name. Thankfully most people and schools have recognized that. |
Well said. I have always bristled at the term since in my mind, and experience, it connotes the "other" team, not the "real" team....Of course, with regard to Tennessee and the Lady Vols basketball team I can cut them some slack due to history....it's sort of like Radcliffe Crew....all the other teams at Harvard are called Harvard, but Radcliffe was the first, and for a very long time, the only intercollegiate women's team in the early days of Havard becoming co-ed( when it essentially consumed its sister college Radcliffe) pre-Title IX when Harvard and every other institution didn't give a rat's &^% about female athletes....it's a cool bit of history and I'm fine with it.
Whenever anyone, usually sports writers, refer to Cal (or any other Pac12 team as Lady whatever) I generally tweet a correction immediately. With Cal, I explain that those Bears reside at Baylor, not Berkeley.
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bekcat1
Joined: 24 Feb 2011
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| Posted: 11/13/14 7:52 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| bekcat1 wrote: |
| To say lady is as demeaning as redskins is ludicrous at best. Lady is a term of respect. It describes a woman with class, self-confidence, high standards. How some people have turned it into a belittling term is beyond me. When did it become so wrong to be a lady anyhow? |
I'm sure the term is fine when used in the Queen's box at Ascot. And redskin is fine when applied to potatoes too. But neither belongs on a sports team name.
When applied to women's college sports teams it is and has always been used to belittle the women's teams and distinguish them from the "real" teams playing men's games.
They're athletes, representing the university, just like the men, and deserve the same knickname. It's just one more archaic mark of second class citizenry that should vanish. The school has a nickname. ALL athletes representing the school have earned the right to wear that name. Thankfully most people and schools have recognized that. |
To you, lady is belittling. To the vast majority of Tennessee Volunteer and Lady Volunteer fans, it is a symbol of excellence.
Removing the lady from Lady Vols isn't levelling the playing field. It's diminishing a legacy. The Lady Vols wear that logo with pride, not shame. They have as much orange in their blood as the Volunteer football team. They represent the same school, use the same mascot (Smokey), and look to bring as many honors to their school as the men's teams.
Hart's efforts to create a "One Tennessee" is accomplishing exactly the opposite. It is seriously time to cut him loose.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 11/13/14 11:43 pm ::: |
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| CalwbbFan wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| bekcat1 wrote: |
| To say lady is as demeaning as redskins is ludicrous at best. Lady is a term of respect. It describes a woman with class, self-confidence, high standards. How some people have turned it into a belittling term is beyond me. When did it become so wrong to be a lady anyhow? |
I'm sure the term is fine when used in the Queen's box at Ascot. And redskin is fine when applied to potatoes too. But neither belongs on a sports team name.
When applied to women's college sports teams it is and has always been used to belittle the women's teams and distinguish them from the "real" teams playing men's games.
They're athletes, representing the university, just like the men, and deserve the same knickname. It's just one more archaic mark of second class citizenry that should vanish. The school has a nickname. ALL athletes representing the school have earned the right to wear that name. Thankfully most people and schools have recognized that. |
Well said. I have always bristled at the term since in my mind, and experience, it connotes the "other" team, not the "real" team....Of course, with regard to Tennessee and the Lady Vols basketball team I can cut them some slack due to history....it's sort of like Radcliffe Crew....all the other teams at Harvard are called Harvard, but Radcliffe was the first, and for a very long time, the only intercollegiate women's team in the early days of Havard becoming co-ed( when it essentially consumed its sister college Radcliffe) pre-Title IX when Harvard and every other institution didn't give a rat's &^% about female athletes....it's a cool bit of history and I'm fine with it.
Whenever anyone, usually sports writers, refer to Cal (or any other Pac12 team as Lady whatever) I generally tweet a correction immediately. With Cal, I explain that those Bears reside at Baylor, not Berkeley. |
Fine, you're Cal. Keep it at Cal. We are Tennessee and we are the LADY VOLS and we like it that way. Heartless Dave is also Clueless Dave and he is about to find out what Tennessee fans really think of him if he has the guts to show up at a Lady Vols game....which I bet he will not.
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It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 11/14/14 10:12 am ::: |
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When they start calling the football team "The Gentleman Vols" then it makes sense ...
That said, however, the Lady Vols is one of the few times I can grudgingly accept the "Lady" in front of the mascot, due to the history involved.
But at the West Coast Jamboree, the 128-team girls' tournament I run in Northern California after Christmas, part of my instructions to the announcers this year will be to not refer to any team as the "Lady Xs" unless the boys' teams have a completely different name, or of course are called the "Gentleman Xs."
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 11/14/14 10:37 am ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
When they start calling the football team "The Gentleman Vols" then it makes sense ...
That said, however, the Lady Vols is one of the few times I can grudgingly accept the "Lady" in front of the mascot, due to the history involved.
But at the West Coast Jamboree, the 128-team girls' tournament I run in Northern California after Christmas, part of my instructions to the announcers this year will be to not refer to any team as the "Lady Xs" unless the boys' teams have a completely different name, or of course are called the "Gentleman Xs." |
A limited number of fans bitch and moan and scream about "history" and "tradition" every time there's a change, but most schools know better and fix it anyhow, whether it's teams dropping patronizing names for the womens teams, or ethnicly offensive names, including schools like Dartmouth, Dickinson, Miami (Oh), St. Boneventure, SJU, Marquette, Syracuse, Ky, etc. (UMass had the double whammy of having Redmen and Redwomen, which was changed to just Minutemen).
Dan Snyder and the Pat fanatics both use the same lame excuses. That the name is deeply entrenched doesn't change anything.
The interesting thing about Tenn is how many people are more worried about the name representing Pat than they are about representing the University of Tennessee.
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 11/14/14 12:46 pm ::: |
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Sally Jenkins jumps in:
No Way to Treat a Lady (Vol)
My general view on this is that the "Lady [fill-in-the-blank]" names should go away, for the reasons that many already have explained, with the exception of Centenary, where the men's teams are the Gentlemen and the women's teams are the Ladies, so there's actual parity. (And, honestly, calling the women's teams the Gentlemen would be incredibly silly.) For instance, I am still very happy that CVS changed "Lady Knights" to "Scarlet Knights" when she came to RU.
"Lady Vols," though, does feel a little different to me. I'm not sure why. (I didn't, for instance, know until I read the Sally Jenkins piece that the Tennessee teams were known as the "Volettes" - yuck! - before Pat & co. got the nickname changed.) I can't say I'm mad about the change, particularly since right now it does not affect the basketball team, but it does have a very specific tie to Pat and a bunch of legendary teams, and I guess I do feel like changing the name would be losing that connection to important WCBB history. I have the same kind of feeling about "Lady Techsters" - it makes me think of KM as a player with that long braid. Nostalgia isn't really a reason, I admit, but maybe what's behind it is.
In this case, I also don't discount the concern that the AD is hostile to women's sports, and that devaluing the Lady Vols brand could seem like part of a broader plan. I'm not in Knoxville, so I don't have a really good sense of this, but I understand why people are worried about it.
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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| Posted: 11/14/14 4:07 pm ::: |
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I don't have a problem with teams that use the word Lady when describing themselves, like the Lady Vols, the Lady Techsters, or the Lady Bears. But I do have a problem when people throw in the word lady when referring to a team because it's the women's team, like calling Cal the Lady Bears or UCLA the Lady Bruins, for the most part I don't think people who are doing that are intending to be disrespectful, but to me it is because that's not their name, that's not who they are.
Also on a separate note, but related, Hawaii refers to their men's teams as Rainbow Warriors and their women's teams as Rainbow Wahine.
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Youth Coach
Joined: 23 Mar 2008
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| Posted: 11/14/14 7:14 pm ::: |
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| That Sally Jenkins article is an excellent read. |
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 11/14/14 7:44 pm ::: |
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| Heartless Dave has a history with women's sports, and it isn't positive. See his tenure with his previous schools and then look at how he's ridden roughshod over a very proud tradition at Tennessee. He isn't making himself real popular in Knoxville and I doubt he'll have the guts to show up at a Lady Vols game. If he does, I bet he comes in without fanfare and ducks out quickly.
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It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 11/14/14 8:53 pm ::: |
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| GEF34 wrote: |
I don't have a problem with teams that use the word Lady when describing themselves, like the Lady Vols, the Lady Techsters, or the Lady Bears. But I do have a problem when people throw in the word lady when referring to a team because it's the women's team, like calling Cal the Lady Bears or UCLA the Lady Bruins, for the most part I don't think people who are doing that are intending to be disrespectful, but to me it is because that's not their name, that's not who they are.
Also on a separate note, but related, Hawaii refers to their men's teams as Rainbow Warriors and their women's teams as Rainbow Wahine. |
It's a bit more... layered... for the Hawai'i men, but yes, I appreciate Hawai'i using the actual Hawai'ian for "women" to describe their women's teams.
I am uncomfortable with the whole "Lady" thing personally, and I would prefer to leave it off, but if teams want to use it, that's their prerogative. On the other hand, if you try to append it to a team that doesn't use it, then fuck you. ("Lady Johnnies", seriously? And let's not even go into the accidental insult of "Lady Huskies".)
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 11/14/14 11:26 pm ::: |
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| Queenie wrote: |
| On the other hand, if you try to append it to a team that doesn't use it, then fuck you. ("Lady Johnnies", seriously? And let's not even go into the accidental insult of "Lady Huskies".) |
Perhaps not exactly the way I'd express it, but I agree.
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