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stever
Joined: 16 Nov 2004
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Location: https://womensbasketballdaily.net
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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PickledGinger
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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Location: Indiana
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 Posted: 11/08/14 12:30 am ::: |
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| Good for him...very important to set the tone.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 11/08/14 12:44 am ::: |
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| Presumably she didn't like to play defense...or maybe to share the ball. I have to say though that she chose to go there with a specific system in mind. It's not easy for some people to make that big of a mindset switch. I kind of feel like athletes in this position should be able to switch schools without penalty or somehow with less penalty. The team will miss her athleticism at the least.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15744
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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| Posted: 11/08/14 2:15 am ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| Presumably she didn't like to play defense...or maybe to share the ball. I have to say though that she chose to go there with a specific system in mind. It's not easy for some people to make that big of a mindset switch. I kind of feel like athletes in this position should be able to switch schools without penalty or somehow with less penalty. The team will miss her athleticism at the least. |
While I'd agree with the sentiment of the above, this kind of situation is where young people can demonstrate their ability/willingness to transition from youthful indiscretion to adult comportment: i.e., "breaking rules" isn't The Way To Go, if ya wanna change schools.
If she was that unhappy, she could have gone a more conventional route to follow her basketball dreams elsewhere. Getting herself kicked out isn't gonna reflect well on her for any future prospects. Unless she's phenomenal.
I had her pegged as Very VERY Good on my list of Potential Draftees for Fantasy League. Damn the luck.
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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| Posted: 11/08/14 2:26 am ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| Presumably she didn't like to play defense...or maybe to share the ball. I have to say though that she chose to go there with a specific system in mind. It's not easy for some people to make that big of a mindset switch. I kind of feel like athletes in this position should be able to switch schools without penalty or somehow with less penalty. The team will miss her athleticism at the least. |
I'd have to imagine she wouldn't get dismissed from the team because she didn't like to play defense or because of her mindset. I'd assume for her to get dismissed from the team as opposed to just going their separate ways it's something more serious than that.
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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Youth Coach
Joined: 23 Mar 2008
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| Posted: 11/08/14 9:56 am ::: |
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| ahhh, the all encompassing "rules violation"... |
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 11/08/14 1:32 pm ::: |
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| GEF34 wrote: |
| myrtle wrote: |
| Presumably she didn't like to play defense...or maybe to share the ball. I have to say though that she chose to go there with a specific system in mind. It's not easy for some people to make that big of a mindset switch. I kind of feel like athletes in this position should be able to switch schools without penalty or somehow with less penalty. The team will miss her athleticism at the least. |
I'd have to imagine she wouldn't get dismissed from the team because she didn't like to play defense or because of her mindset. I'd assume for her to get dismissed from the team as opposed to just going their separate ways it's something more serious than that. |
I just meant that the mindset could be what set off the subsequent behavior - but it's all speculation and could be something totally other than that. Sorry for speculation - that's usually a bad thing to do and unfair to the parties involved. I'm just shocked that it happened because I had been thinking that the team over the next two years would at least have her and Alleyne to start building around. So it's disappointing from a P12 perspective. But you never know - it may in fact help bring the team closer together over the longer run. And it sets a message about Graves' expectations.
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Joe Foss
Joined: 23 Aug 2007
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| Posted: 11/09/14 7:56 am ::: |
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| Youth Coach wrote: |
| ahhh, the all encompassing "rules violation"... |
Coaches certainly are able to use that phrase to their advantage. It puts the blame on the player, and insulates the coach from criticism. The description of the rules broken in this case certainly isn't very convincing. Is a player not "buying in" to a new coach's conception of what the "team culture" should be really a rules violation? Or is it simply an indication that the new coach is having trouble adapting to a player he did not recruit?
So far, NCAA reform seems to have been limited to allowing the favored 5 conferences to increase their competitive advantage over all other schools by allowing the 5 to pay their players amounts that other schools cannot match. I'd like to see the reform encompass more in terms of ensuring that players are treated fairly, given the power disparity between athletic departments and the individual player. Is it really fair for a coach to be able to unilaterally terminate the career of a player simply because she has difficulty adjusting to a new coaching staff? At a minimum, shouldn't a player be allowed to transfer without penalty when a new coach is hired?
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patsweetpat
Joined: 14 Jul 2010
Posts: 2313
Location: Culver City, CA
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| Posted: 11/09/14 9:46 am ::: |
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| Joe Foss wrote: |
| I'd like to see the reform encompass more in terms of ensuring that players are treated fairly, given the power disparity between athletic departments and the individual player. Is it really fair for a coach to be able to unilaterally terminate the career of a player simply because she has difficulty adjusting to a new coaching staff? At a minimum, shouldn't a player be allowed to transfer without penalty when a new coach is hired? |
I would be in favor of this.
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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| Posted: 11/09/14 4:55 pm ::: |
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| Joe Foss wrote: |
| Youth Coach wrote: |
| ahhh, the all encompassing "rules violation"... |
Coaches certainly are able to use that phrase to their advantage. It puts the blame on the player, and insulates the coach from criticism. The description of the rules broken in this case certainly isn't very convincing. Is a player not "buying in" to a new coach's conception of what the "team culture" should be really a rules violation? Or is it simply an indication that the new coach is having trouble adapting to a player he did not recruit?
So far, NCAA reform seems to have been limited to allowing the favored 5 conferences to increase their competitive advantage over all other schools by allowing the 5 to pay their players amounts that other schools cannot match. I'd like to see the reform encompass more in terms of ensuring that players are treated fairly, given the power disparity between athletic departments and the individual player. Is it really fair for a coach to be able to unilaterally terminate the career of a player simply because she has difficulty adjusting to a new coaching staff? At a minimum, shouldn't a player be allowed to transfer without penalty when a new coach is hired? |
To address your first paragraph he doesn't say that was the "rule" broken or address what "rule" was broken, and I don't see how you and others are interpreting that to be the "rule" that was broken.
But for your second paragraph, I think within a time limit, like 3 months from when the coach was hired, for example the players should be allowed to transfer without penalty, in my mind meaning sitting out a year, but in this case I don't think that rule should apply, or say a player shouldn't be allowed to try it out for a year and then decide after a year they wanted to transfer and be allowed to without penalty. Also does anyone actually know if Kelly Graves gave players the option for blanket transfers if they wanted one. If he did so, and she decided not to take that offer, than that is even more of a non issue in that case.
Also I'm in favor of the one time transfer exception rule the NCAA has in most other sports being implemented in women's basketball. For the most parts players are released without issue anyways and this way they wouldn't have to sit out, and I don't think this rule would create chaos within the sport.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7848
Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 11/09/14 5:07 pm ::: |
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Ah, right on cue, here comes Joe with his "smearing the player" accusation because the violation of rules wasn't stated right up front for everyone to see....although he seems to have missed the Michigan one, or was it Michigan State, I forget now.
Get over it. It's none of your business.
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It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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patsweetpat
Joined: 14 Jul 2010
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Location: Culver City, CA
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| Posted: 11/10/14 8:32 am ::: |
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| GEF34 wrote: |
| Also does anyone actually know if Kelly Graves gave players the option for blanket transfers if they wanted one. If he did so, and she decided not to take that offer, than that is even more of a non issue in that case. |
Coach Close did that for the incoming signees when she took over at UCLA (and I know she's not the only one to ever have done so), but I'm not familiar with a new coach ever making that offer to *all* players on the roster of the team that he/she is inheriting. Doesn't mean that it's never happened, just that I've never heard of it. Anyone else?
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 12851
Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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| Posted: 11/12/14 9:54 am ::: |
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| Until the specifics are known, how can we determine which person (player or coach) is the asshole here?
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larmarch5
Joined: 31 Jul 2014
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| Posted: 11/12/14 3:26 pm ::: |
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"If you buy that star athletes are compensated with a valuable education, consider this complicating fact: An athletic scholarship is not a four-year educational guarantee. What few college sports fans—and not enough college recruits—realize is that a university can yank that scholarship after one, two, or three years without cause. Coach doesn’t like you? He’s free to cut you loose. Sitting the bench? You could lose your free ride to a new recruit."
http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2012/05/ncaa_scholarship_rules_it_s_morally_indefensible_that_athletic_scholarships_can_be_yanked_after_one_year_for_any_reason_.html
So, what are Chrishae Rowe's options? Is her scholarship rescinded? If she transfers, will she have to sit out? I've read about this happening at other colleges and I've read about some parents considering legal action against universities for breach of promise. At some small school, the new coach instituted a bunch of silly rules so she could write up players she didn't like. To me, this plays into the current legal considerations for having a players' union within the NCAA. I wonder if any programs actually spell out the specific infractions that will result in dismissal to their recruits? Then, what happens if a new coach makes up a new set of "infractions"? I think the NCAA needs to be forced to be much more transparent. And, if I were a parent of an athlete, I would take a look at the history of the school and their coaches to see if I trusted them with my kid's future.
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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| Posted: 11/12/14 11:05 pm ::: |
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| larmarch5 wrote: |
"If you buy that star athletes are compensated with a valuable education, consider this complicating fact: An athletic scholarship is not a four-year educational guarantee. What few college sports fans—and not enough college recruits—realize is that a university can yank that scholarship after one, two, or three years without cause. Coach doesn’t like you? He’s free to cut you loose. Sitting the bench? You could lose your free ride to a new recruit."
http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2012/05/ncaa_scholarship_rules_it_s_morally_indefensible_that_athletic_scholarships_can_be_yanked_after_one_year_for_any_reason_.html
So, what are Chrishae Rowe's options? Is her scholarship rescinded? If she transfers, will she have to sit out? I've read about this happening at other colleges and I've read about some parents considering legal action against universities for breach of promise. At some small school, the new coach instituted a bunch of silly rules so she could write up players she didn't like. To me, this plays into the current legal considerations for having a players' union within the NCAA. I wonder if any programs actually spell out the specific infractions that will result in dismissal to their recruits? Then, what happens if a new coach makes up a new set of "infractions"? I think the NCAA needs to be forced to be much more transparent. And, if I were a parent of an athlete, I would take a look at the history of the school and their coaches to see if I trusted them with my kid's future. |
I don't think Oregon can take away her scholarship for this year, since she has already signed the papers and is using it. As for sitting out a year she would have to petition the NCAA to not sit out a year, because women's basketball is one of the few sports that doesn't have a one time transfer exception rule.
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dfineguy
Joined: 05 Oct 2008
Posts: 201
Location: Bay Area Califonia
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| Posted: 11/13/14 12:05 am ::: |
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Kind of amazing. Graves came into the PAC amidst much fanfare and hoopla. People around the conference said it was great for the PAC and would raise it's overall competitive level. I've heard it said he then started contacting other teams verbals inviting them to Oregon. I don't think he achieved anything but POing the other HCs around the PAC. Then he pulls Rowe off the team permanently with now suspension or anything, thus alienating the SoCal area for future recruiting. He steals Rueck's top assistant.
He now appears arrogant, self-serving and ruthless despite the "Papa Kelly" persona he tries to sell. OSU seems to have done it the right way, but Graves seems to have pulled the Oregon WBB van right up on the sidewalk and floored it not caring who gets injured and damaged in the process.
I DID NOT see this coming at all.
Oh, and by the way, Rowe should be able to play next year anywhere since she was dismissed from the team, she did not ask for a transfer.
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ballch87
Joined: 27 Oct 2014
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 11/13/14 11:07 am ::: |
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| dfineguy wrote: |
Kind of amazing. Graves came into the PAC amidst much fanfare and hoopla. People around the conference said it was great for the PAC and would raise it's overall competitive level. I've heard it said he then started contacting other teams verbals inviting them to Oregon. I don't think he achieved anything but POing the other HCs around the PAC. Then he pulls Rowe off the team permanently with now suspension or anything, thus alienating the SoCal area for future recruiting. He steals Rueck's top assistant.
He now appears arrogant, self-serving and ruthless despite the "Papa Kelly" persona he tries to sell. OSU seems to have done it the right way, but Graves seems to have pulled the Oregon WBB van right up on the sidewalk and floored it not caring who gets injured and damaged in the process.
I DID NOT see this coming at all.
Oh, and by the way, Rowe should be able to play next year anywhere since she was dismissed from the team, she did not ask for a transfer. |
My, such vitriol. Would you care to cite your sources, since we're not all West Coasters and PAC people?
A lot of the dismissal depends on what she was dismissed FOR. She could have been warned privately several times; you have no clue what goes on behind the scenes, unless you are a mouse in the wall. (Or a member of the team, which from your name I would tend to doubt!) This young lady could have an attitude that stinks to high heaven and was poisoning the rest of the team, for all you know. It could hurt her chances elsewhere, too. And as for alienating the rest of Southern California, aren't you being just a wee bit hyperbolic?
Oh, and as for "stealing" an assistant, I remind you that you can't "steal" anyone who doesn't want to go. They are all adults. Sounds like you have just a tiny bit of a grudge going on here.
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It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 11/13/14 11:23 am ::: |
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And who cares if he called players who had verballed.
The recruiting season is still open. The rules say there is no such thing as a "commitment" until the signing period starts and the LOI is signed and submitted. The player is supposed to continue to have the freedom to choose a school until then, so what is wrong with a coach calling ANY high school player who hasn't yet signed an LOI and saying "I'm now at ______, we have great new facilities and are building a great program, and we would love to have you come here and be part of it."
That's the way it's supposed to work.
I have no sympathy for those who try to pretend they have a "commitment" when the rules say you can't have one yet. They're just a recruit until they sign.
Any coaches whining about him calling recruits need to grow up and keep recruiting until signing day.
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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Location: Indiana
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| Posted: 11/13/14 11:50 am ::: |
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Yeah, no complaining about him calling kids that have verbally committed elsewhere. Who knows, maybe someone had really wanted to go to Oregon but couldn't stand the previous coach thus when Graves got hired, they could have changed their mind.
As the highly successful coach of the Georgia Bulldogs, Andy Landers once said: "I love when a kid verbally commits somewhere. I now know who my competition is."
And to echo another poster, since when is hiring an assistant away from another school an issue? I mean, if the assistant didn't want to go, they wouldn't. Clearly they wanted to be a Duck more than a Beaver.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 11/13/14 11:59 am ::: |
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| purduefanatic wrote: |
| And to echo another poster, since when is hiring an assistant away from another school an issue? I mean, if the assistant didn't want to go, they wouldn't. Clearly they wanted to be a Duck more than a Beaver. |
Or he offered them more money or more responsibility or more visibility or a better living or working environment. Yeah, it's a shame the assistant was able to find an opportunity she preferred to her current job.
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bballjunkie
Joined: 12 Aug 2014
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| Posted: 11/13/14 1:19 pm ::: |
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| It's funny how some can get all put out when a coach boots off a player and then cites other instances why they don't like him. Regarding the player involved, the general feeling was that she ended up at Oregon as they were the only team to recruit her, Paul and Oregon were low on the totem Pole in the PAC. There are some players who just have baggage from HS and club, she and Crook are just 2 of them so I am sure there are a lot of people saying I told you so! They probably hoped history wouldn't repeat itself but it did.
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