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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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 Posted: 11/01/14 10:24 am ::: |
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I think the questions about KML's conditioning are legit, as they impact how healthy she'll be, how well she can defend, and how versatile she can be offensively.
We all know she can shoot it -- that's a given -- but it seems to me the other stuff will be more dependent on maximizing her ability than her skills, which are impressive.
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ucbart
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 11/01/14 10:41 am ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
I think the questions about KML's conditioning are legit, as they impact how healthy she'll be, how well she can defend, and how versatile she can be offensively.
We all know she can shoot it -- that's a given -- but it seems to me the other stuff will be more dependent on maximizing her ability than her skills, which are impressive. |
I also think it's legit. I also think that her work with Amanda Kimball, the strength and conditioning coach isn't a lie. KML is just never going to have a body like a lot of her peers, she is not set up that way. I think it's more about her maximizing what she can get out of her body that will make the difference. I assume she will lose weight as the season goes on, just because of how much she will practice and play. She will never have a body like Stokes, but Kiah won't ever be a better basketball player than KML either.
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
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Location: Lost in D.C.
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| Posted: 11/01/14 11:53 am ::: |
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| Conversations about weight are tricky because of the overlay of societal expectations about what women are supposed to look like. That said, I don't think it's hard to think of any number of bigs who have not had to worry too much about conditioning in high school and who needed to have a better ratio of muscle to body weight (I think that's an appropriate way to say it) to maximize their success. One thing I've noticed over the years at Rutgers is that the successful players generally become less rounded and more angular as the conditioning takes effect. If that doesn't happen, then there's something wrong (see, for instance, April Sykes).
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 11/01/14 12:17 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
I think the questions about KML's conditioning are legit, as they impact how healthy she'll be, how well she can defend, and how versatile she can be offensively.
We all know she can shoot it -- that's a given -- but it seems to me the other stuff will be more dependent on maximizing her ability than her skills, which are impressive. |
The other stuff is less relevant in the pro game. The pro game is all about putting points up. And her potential as a pro is a better topic for the pro board than this one.
She doesn't just shoot it. Lots of players can shoot it. Her shots go in at a high percentage. I fell in love with her shot 3 years ago. Moore had the best form but Lewis has a better arc. And she gets it off in a blink. She also is great at moving without the ball to get free for a shot. The other thing she is very good at is making baskets in the paint. Her layups go in, at the first try. It sounds unimpressive until you watch other players. It seemed like 25% of Tina Charles' rebounds were off her own misses of layups. Lewis has exceptional hand-eye coordination and body control with which she has an assortment of floaters, scoop shots, mini-hooks etc. and they go in, first try.
This is, unfortunately for UConn followers and lovers of great play, her last season. I'm going to focus on enjoying watching her play.
Last edited by linkster on 11/01/14 4:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 11/01/14 2:00 pm ::: |
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| linkster wrote: |
The other stuff is less relevant in the pro game. The pro game is all about putting points up. |
This is not true. If anything the 'other stuff' is even more important in the pro game.
| linkster wrote: |
This is, unfortunately for UConn followers and lovers of great play, her last season. I'm going to focus on enjoying watching her play. |
agree. she should be really fun to watch this year.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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| Posted: 11/01/14 10:45 pm ::: |
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The wind sprinters:
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 11/01/14 11:01 pm ::: |
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| I don't know if that picture is a fair representation, but if it is, it looks like Lewis has put on twenty pounds in the off season. That's the biggest I've ever seen her. I thought she was supposed to be working on getting in better shape.
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
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| Posted: 11/02/14 9:02 am ::: |
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| KML does look big in that photo. If she remains at that weight the entire season will she still be rated the number one pick for the 2015 WNBA draft?
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PickledGinger
Joined: 04 Oct 2013
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| Posted: 11/02/14 10:49 pm ::: |
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| ucbart wrote: |
| I also think it's legit. I also think that her work with Amanda Kimball, the strength and conditioning coach isn't a lie. KML is just never going to have a body like a lot of her peers, she is not set up that way. I think it's more about her maximizing what she can get out of her body that will make the difference. I assume she will lose weight as the season goes on, just because of how much she will practice and play. She will never have a body like Stokes, but Kiah won't ever be a better basketball player than KML either. |
This is false. Big boned and overweight are not mutually inclusive. KML is overweight.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be a hater. I LOVE KML's game. I think she has the skill and potential to be an Olympian. But as a member of a fitness-oriented family (brother and sister-in-law are physical therapists, other brother owns and operates a CrossFit) it just makes me sad that she doesn't take that potential more seriously.
Last edited by PickledGinger on 11/02/14 10:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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PickledGinger
Joined: 04 Oct 2013
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| Posted: 11/02/14 10:58 pm ::: |
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| I'd also like to point out that, particularly in obese America, the concepts of healthy living and "positive body image" tend to contradict each other. I'm all for people feeling comfortable in their own skin, but it gets to a point where it is flat-out unhealthy for people to be carrying as much weight as they do. It's bad for joints, heart, kidneys, the list goes on.
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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| Posted: 11/02/14 11:45 pm ::: |
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| PickledGinger wrote: |
| ucbart wrote: |
| I also think it's legit. I also think that her work with Amanda Kimball, the strength and conditioning coach isn't a lie. KML is just never going to have a body like a lot of her peers, she is not set up that way. I think it's more about her maximizing what she can get out of her body that will make the difference. I assume she will lose weight as the season goes on, just because of how much she will practice and play. She will never have a body like Stokes, but Kiah won't ever be a better basketball player than KML either. |
This is false. Big boned and overweight are not mutually inclusive. KML is overweight.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be a hater. I LOVE KML's game. I think she has the skill and potential to be an Olympian. But as a member of a fitness-oriented family (brother and sister-in-law are physical therapists, other brother owns and operates a CrossFit) it just makes me sad that she doesn't take that potential more seriously. |
I don't understand what you are trying to get at. There has been an article posted in the WNBA thread where Kaleena Mosqueda-Lewis has said she wants to make an impact and she worked all summer with the strength and conditioning coach at nutritionist at Connecticut. Here is a quote from Amanda Kimball, the strength and conditioning coach.
| Quote: |
| But the focus has been on what I can do to help her. I see her everyday because she needs someone everyday to help keep her going. And she was here every day this summer and able to make some nice gains with her in terms of keeping her strong, working on her lateral quickness and enhancing her endurance. |
It sounds to me she takes her career very seriously.
http://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-womens-basketball-blog/hc-kaleena-mosqeudalewis-intent-to-prove-that-success-comes-in-all-shapes-20141020-story.html
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PickledGinger
Joined: 04 Oct 2013
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| Posted: 11/03/14 12:59 am ::: |
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That article is all about strength and conditioning. Kimball mentions nutrition once, and them immediately sidesteps the topic in favor of "what I can do to help her." Sounds like even she isn't that confident in KML's weight.
Last edited by PickledGinger on 11/03/14 1:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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| Posted: 11/03/14 1:01 am ::: |
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| PickledGinger wrote: |
That article is all about strength and conditioning. The topic of nutrition was almost completely sidestepped. |
It says she is working with a nutritionist, what exactly do you want, a list of her daily intake?
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PickledGinger
Joined: 04 Oct 2013
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| Posted: 11/03/14 1:03 am ::: |
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| GEF34 wrote: |
| PickledGinger wrote: |
That article is all about strength and conditioning. The topic of nutrition was almost completely sidestepped. |
It says she is working with a nutritionist, what exactly do you want, a list of her daily intake? |
Actually I'd like to see physical evidence. Results.
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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| Posted: 11/03/14 1:11 am ::: |
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| PickledGinger wrote: |
| GEF34 wrote: |
| PickledGinger wrote: |
That article is all about strength and conditioning. The topic of nutrition was almost completely sidestepped. |
It says she is working with a nutritionist, what exactly do you want, a list of her daily intake? |
Actually I'd like to see physical evidence. Results. |
And no matter how hard she works in the gym and changes her diet she may never achieve the results you want to see, and then you are going to continue think she doesn't take her career seriously.
You say you are from a fitness oriented family, so you should know that not everyone will be able to get faster, stronger, skinnier, toned, etc. And there is another quote in the article from the strength and conditioning coach where she says they are doing it the "right way" when referring to losing weight, so she is far from a finished product.
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PickledGinger
Joined: 04 Oct 2013
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| Posted: 11/03/14 4:19 am ::: |
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| I ironically/coincidentally had a friend tell me today that you don't produce the compassion hormone when talking about someone online, and I realized I would never, ever say these things to her face, and I kinda feel like a dick.
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bballjunkie
Joined: 12 Aug 2014
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| Posted: 11/03/14 3:26 pm ::: You should |
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| Saying someone is overweight because they are not serious, etc is flat out wrong. Don't try to pretend you know what KML is thinking or feeling that is also wrong. If you need to say negative things then go ahead but don't try to qualify them with saying you know the reason why you believe those things when clearly you don't.
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umbeta1455
Joined: 18 Apr 2005
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Location: Maine
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| Posted: 11/03/14 9:19 pm ::: |
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| Not trying to be mean or anything of the sort, but how good do you think she will be in the WNBA? I wouldn't call her fat for an average person at all, but in a professional basketball league it had to come into consideration and be talked about. Where is she drafted do you think? How will her pro career be? I have been curious about how she will be as a pro.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 11/04/14 10:11 am ::: |
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| umbeta1455 wrote: |
| Not trying to be mean or anything of the sort, but how good do you think she will be in the WNBA? I wouldn't call her fat for an average person at all, but in a professional basketball league it had to come into consideration and be talked about. Where is she drafted do you think? How will her pro career be? I have been curious about how she will be as a pro. |
As with all players making the jump to the W, there are questions.
I think KML can score, but she hasn't been consistently healthy (which is a skill, in a way) and she doesn't appear to be in the best shape she could be in (which is an indication of commitment to the game, and also could be a major factor in terms of production).
As with Katie Douglas, Allie Quigley and a host of others, players have shown that they can shed 15 or 20 or 30 pounds at the pro level and correspondingly up the quality of their play, and it certainly looks like KML could benefit from that kind of regimen. If she does, I would suspect that she will be a solid WNBA player -- a starter, maybe an all-star once or twice, but not an elite player. If she can't stay healthy and/or lose weight, then her career arc might be a lot shorter than most picks in the top three or four.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 11/04/14 10:39 am ::: |
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I think her lack of quickness works against her at the next level because she's a tweener. I don't believe she's a WNBA guard, but she's an undersized 3. Generally shorter players at that position compensate for lack of height with superior quickness. She's never really demonstrated a consistant ability to create her own shot. But at the next level she will be matched against players who are both taller and quicker, both than she is, and than virtually all of her oponents to date have been, and that raises questions about her ability to defend and her ability to find those open 3 point shots that the UConn offense is designed to produce for her.
It's actually very very common in many sports, but especially basketball and football, for players who are stars stepping up a level (could be HS to college, or college to pro) to struggle at the next level because of a lack of size or speed. Both size and speed increase and become more important as one moves up in class.
I think she needs to get quicker and to improve significantly her individual playmaking ability if she's going to star in the WNBA. Otherwise she's just a shorter Tricia Liston.
And she is likely to be a top 3 or 4 pick and could even be #1, but that's largely a commentary on the upcoming draft class.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 11/04/14 11:40 am ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
| umbeta1455 wrote: |
| Not trying to be mean or anything of the sort, but how good do you think she will be in the WNBA? I wouldn't call her fat for an average person at all, but in a professional basketball league it had to come into consideration and be talked about. Where is she drafted do you think? How will her pro career be? I have been curious about how she will be as a pro. |
As with all players making the jump to the W, there are questions.
I think KML can score, but she hasn't been consistently healthy (which is a skill, in a way) and she doesn't appear to be in the best shape she could be in (which is an indication of commitment to the game, and also could be a major factor in terms of production).
As with Katie Douglas, Allie Quigley and a host of others, players have shown that they can shed 15 or 20 or 30 pounds at the pro level and correspondingly up the quality of their play, and it certainly looks like KML could benefit from that kind of regimen. If she does, I would suspect that she will be a solid WNBA player -- a starter, maybe an all-star once or twice, but not an elite player. If she can't stay healthy and/or lose weight, then her career arc might be a lot shorter than most picks in the top three or four. |
Maybe you should advise her, Clay. Send her your Skittles diet or something.
Her attitude in that one recent article came off as she doesn't need to be in shape to win. With that kind of attitude, I don't see it happening for her any more than I see it happening for Daniel Adams, who's a nice role player for a a WNBA team.
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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| Posted: 11/04/14 12:50 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
I think her lack of quickness works against her at the next level because she's a tweener. I don't believe she's a WNBA guard, but she's an undersized 3. Generally shorter players at that position compensate for lack of height with superior quickness. She's never really demonstrated a consistant ability to create her own shot. But at the next level she will be matched against players who are both taller and quicker, both than she is, and than virtually all of her oponents to date have been, and that raises questions about her ability to defend and her ability to find those open 3 point shots that the UConn offense is designed to produce for her.
It's actually very very common in many sports, but especially basketball and football, for players who are stars stepping up a level (could be HS to college, or college to pro) to struggle at the next level because of a lack of size or speed. Both size and speed increase and become more important as one moves up in class.
I think she needs to get quicker and to improve significantly her individual playmaking ability if she's going to star in the WNBA. Otherwise she's just a shorter Tricia Liston.
And she is likely to be a top 3 or 4 pick and could even be #1, but that's largely a commentary on the upcoming draft class. |
Pretty good synopsis. It was good to see (Sunny) Liston drop weight.
I think Lewis has developed a more versatile game than TL on the college court.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 11/04/14 1:12 pm ::: |
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| cthskzfn wrote: |
I think Lewis has developed a more versatile game than TL on the college court. |
Maybe, but if you recall, Liston actually was forced into service as a point guard for Duke. And while no one is going to mistake her for Lindsay Whalen, she managed it. Lewis is probably a better rebounder, but Liston is probably a better ball handler and passer.
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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| Posted: 11/04/14 1:15 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
| umbeta1455 wrote: |
| Not trying to be mean or anything of the sort, but how good do you think she will be in the WNBA? I wouldn't call her fat for an average person at all, but in a professional basketball league it had to come into consideration and be talked about. Where is she drafted do you think? How will her pro career be? I have been curious about how she will be as a pro. |
As with all players making the jump to the W, there are questions.
I think KML can score, but she hasn't been consistently healthy (which is a skill, in a way) and she doesn't appear to be in the best shape she could be in (which is an indication of commitment to the game, and also could be a major factor in terms of production).
As with Katie Douglas, Allie Quigley and a host of others, players have shown that they can shed 15 or 20 or 30 pounds at the pro level and correspondingly up the quality of their play, and it certainly looks like KML could benefit from that kind of regimen. If she does, I would suspect that she will be a solid WNBA player -- a starter, maybe an all-star once or twice, but not an elite player. If she can't stay healthy and/or lose weight, then her career arc might be a lot shorter than most picks in the top three or four. |
Maybe you should advise her, Clay. Send her your Skittles diet or something.
Her attitude in that one recent article came off as she doesn't need to be in shape to win. With that kind of attitude, I don't see it happening for her any more than I see it happening for Daniel Adams, who's a nice role player for a a WNBA team. |
If that is her attitude, why did she work with the strength and conditioning coach and meet with the nutritionist everyday to come up with a plan to lose weight and get into better shape.
I took her comment more to be toward the people who think she needs to be skinnier to be better on the court, when skinnier has nothing to do with losing weight or being in shape.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 11/04/14 1:26 pm ::: |
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You can meet with a nutritionist every hour of every day. That doesn't make weight magically melt away.
A LOT of people do that continuously, for weeks, months, or years. That's what keeps all the weight clinics, Jenny Craigs, Weight Watchers, personal trainers, Bally's, etc. in business. People get on programs, don't follow through on their own, and don't lose a pound.
The proof isn't in "meeting with a nutritionist." It's in the results.
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