RebKell's Junkie Boards
Board Junkies Forums
 
Log in Register FAQ Memberlist Search RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index

UNC academic fraud
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » NCAA Women's Basketball - General Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dennis1361



Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 248



Back to top
PostPosted: 10/22/14 11:28 pm    ::: UNC academic fraud Reply Reply with quote

Nothing really to say except that for many schools this is pretty SOP

UNC academic fraud probe shows 3,100 students involved in 'shadow curriculum'


CHAPEL HILL - Former U.S. Justice Department official Kenneth Wainstein released a 131-page report Wednesday detailing a "shadow curriculum" at the University of North Carolina that involved no-show paper classes and inflated grades during an 18-year period at the school.

UNC Chancellor Carol Folt called the information "shocking" and "sobering."

Of the identifiable enrollments, more than 3,100 students - including 47.4 percent who were student-athletes - took suspect courses in the former African and Afro-American Studies department from 1993-2011.
LINK: http://www.fayobserver.com/news/local/unc-academic-fraud-probe-shows-students-involved-in-shadow-curriculum/article_8a89bee1-92aa-55f3-a6fe-f02da8e90f5b.html


Carol Anne



Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 1739
Location: Seattle


Back to top
PostPosted: 10/23/14 8:10 am    ::: Re: UNC academic fraud Reply Reply with quote

... To solve the problem, some say just pay the athletes. At least that would allow them, especially the ones not bound for the pros, to get something out of their time at school. Others, such as Florida State University Professor David Pargman, simply say: “End the charade: Let athletes major in sports.” ...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/10/23/the-unc-fake-class-investigation-and-the-the-myth-of-the-student-athlete/


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550



Back to top
PostPosted: 10/23/14 8:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It doesn't diminish the scandal, but I truly am not convinced this UNC mess was directed at athletes. Somewhat less than half of the 3100 students involved were reportedly athletes, with about half of that number being football players. Nothing I have read indicates that the former head of the African and Afro-American Studies Dept was motivated in creating these phony classes by a desire to help athletes. Rather he appears, from what I've read, to have been motivated by a desire to assist a certain segment of the school's student population. Undoubtedly the athletic department subsequently took advantage of the situation and steered struggling players to these courses, but the academic fraud apparently would have occurred regardless of athlete involvement (although it might well have continued undetected by the outside world without the athlete involvement which seems to be the only reason anyone cared enough to put a stop to it).

And it is totally unfounded to assert that this is "SOP" at other schools. Certainly every school has some notoriously easy courses (se e.g. Heisman Trophy winner Matt Leinart who took one course - Ballroom Dancing - at USC in order to remain eligible for one more football season), and those are often heavily populated by jocks, but these courses and grades at UNC were not simply easier than most, they were completely ficticious, and that certainly does not occur everywhere.


StevenHW



Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 10979
Location: Sacramento, California


Back to top
PostPosted: 10/23/14 10:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
It doesn't diminish the scandal, but I truly am not convinced this UNC mess was directed at athletes. Somewhat less than half of the 3100 students involved were reportedly athletes, with about half of that number being football players. Nothing I have read indicates that the former head of the African and Afro-American Studies Dept was motivated in creating these phony classes by a desire to help athletes. Rather he appears, from what I've read, to have been motivated by a desire to assist a certain segment of the school's student population. Undoubtedly the athletic department subsequently took advantage of the situation and steered struggling players to these courses, but the academic fraud apparently would have occurred regardless of athlete involvement (although it might well have continued undetected by the outside world without the athlete involvement which seems to be the only reason anyone cared enough to put a stop to it).

And it is totally unfounded to assert that this is "SOP" at other schools. Certainly every school has some notoriously easy courses (se e.g. Heisman Trophy winner Matt Leinart who took one course - Ballroom Dancing - at USC in order to remain eligible for one more football season), and those are often heavily populated by jocks, but these courses and grades at UNC were not simply easier than most, they were completely ficticious, and that certainly does not occur everywhere.


But that Ballroom Dancing class might come in handy for Leinart in case he becomes a future contestant on Dancing With The Stars! Razz


Dennis1361



Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 248



Back to top
PostPosted: 10/23/14 11:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

"And it is totally unfounded to assert that this is "SOP" at(many) other schools

I suppose you believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny as well


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550



Back to top
PostPosted: 10/23/14 11:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Dennis1361 wrote:
"And it is totally unfounded to assert that this is "SOP" at(many) other schools

I suppose you believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny as well


And the foundation for this outlandish claim by you is ???????????

That's what I thought. Thin air.


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66773
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 10/23/14 12:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Every school involved in big time sports has some sort of program to make it easier for athletes to maintain their eligibility. I doubt that many go as far as UNC has apparently gone.



_________________
Let us not deceive ourselves. Our educational institutions have proven to be no bastions of democracy.
linkster



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 5408



Back to top
PostPosted: 10/23/14 12:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Dennis1361 wrote:
"And it is totally unfounded to assert that this is "SOP" at(many) other schools

I suppose you believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny as well


And the foundation for this outlandish claim by you is ???????????

That's what I thought. Thin air.


And where is the evidence supporting your racial theory? Please state where you saw the racial breakdown of those 3100 students? Talk about pot vs kettle! Or are one of those who thinks only minorities study african history?

And as far as SOP, I witnessed academic cheating in my college years by athletes and non-athletes at schools that didn't use sport as a revenue stream. It even seems to have been present in South Bend today, which certainly does use sports as a source of revenue. Anyone who thinks UNC is the exception is living in denial.


linkster



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 5408



Back to top
PostPosted: 10/23/14 12:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

UNC Chancellor Carol Folt called the information "shocking" and "sobering."
[quote]







Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550



Back to top
PostPosted: 10/23/14 12:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
Dennis1361 wrote:
"And it is totally unfounded to assert that this is "SOP" at(many) other schools

I suppose you believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny as well


And the foundation for this outlandish claim by you is ???????????

That's what I thought. Thin air.


And where is the evidence supporting your racial theory? Please state where you saw the racial breakdown of those 3100 students? Talk about pot vs kettle! Or are one of those who thinks only minorities study african history?

And as far as SOP, I witnessed academic cheating in my college years by athletes and non-athletes at schools that didn't use sport as a revenue stream. It even seems to have been present in South Bend today, which certainly does use sports as a source of revenue. Anyone who thinks UNC is the exception is living in denial.


I take it you haven't been following this very closely.

By the way, I didn't say anything about race. You're the only one interjecting that into the discussion.

The point stands that boosting the fortunes of the football and basketball teams does not appear to have been the motivation for the creation of these courses in the first place, although helping athletes became a bigger part of it over time. And even with respect to helping athletes, boosting team performance may not have been the motivation. The Report recounts:

"According to Nyang’oro, he had taught two studentathletes early in his career who were later forced to leave the school because they had become academically ineligible. One of those student-athletes was murdered shortly after returning to his rural hometown; the other soon got in legal trouble and wound up in jail. When he learned about their fates, Nyang’oro committed himself to preventing such tragedies in the future and to helping
other struggling student-athletes to stay in school."


So it appears that helping the kids keep their scholarships for their own sake, rather than helping the teams win games, was what motivated him.

It crossed multiple sports, also. As an example, they created a bogus "paper" option for what was normally a lecture course in Swahili 3, where all they had to do was write a paper in English (not in Swahili) about Swahili culture but it would fulfill the foreign language requirement.

"We found that some students were selected for paper-class treatment because they were considered behavior problems in the classroom, while others were selected simply because they were student-athletes. On one occasion, for example, a Swahili instructor apparently requested that up to six football players be enrolled in a Swahili 3 paper class because they were under-performing in the Swahili 3 lecture class. Of the 154 student enrollments we have identified in the five bifurcated classes, 88 (57% ) of them were student-athletes." FN - Of those student-athletes, 53 were football players, nine were men’s basketball players, five were women’s basketball players, and 21 were athletes in other sports. There were two enrollments for multi-sport studentathletes, which accounts for the slight discrepancy in these calculations."

But obviously you just want to make up stuff and do your usual trolling about Notre Dame. Please link to any report of ficticious classes or faculty fraud at Notre Dame. Oh, you don't have any? Typical.

BTW, from the athletic dept side, one of the most absurdly damning pieces of information I saw in the report is on page 22 where it recounts that when Crowder was getting ready to retire, the football academic counseling staff was in a panic and had a meeting with all of the football coaches where they explained the impact it was going to have on player eligibility, including showing a powerpoint slide that said:

"What Was Part of the Solution in the Past?

- We Put them in classes that met degree requirements in which
- They didn't go to class
- They didn't take notes, have to stay awake
- They didn't have to meet with professors
- They didn't have to pay attention or necessarily engage with the material

- AFAM/AFRI Seminar Courses
- 20-25 page papers on course topic
- THESE NO LONGER EXIST!"

I expect UNC is going to get hammered for the way in which the athletic department used and abused these courses to keep their players eligible. But I still believe from everything I read that helping out the sports teams or just athletes was not the motivation for Nyang’oro's and Crowder's creation of these courses in the first place.

When you can provide any evidence of any other school doing anything remotely similar to what UNC did, please let us know.




Last edited by ArtBest23 on 10/23/14 12:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
linkster



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 5408



Back to top
PostPosted: 10/23/14 12:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
linkster wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
Dennis1361 wrote:
"And it is totally unfounded to assert that this is "SOP" at(many) other schools

I suppose you believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny as well


And the foundation for this outlandish claim by you is ???????????

That's what I thought. Thin air.


And where is the evidence supporting your racial theory? Please state where you saw the racial breakdown of those 3100 students? Talk about pot vs kettle! Or are one of those who thinks only minorities study african history?

And as far as SOP, I witnessed academic cheating in my college years by athletes and non-athletes at schools that didn't use sport as a revenue stream. It even seems to have been present in South Bend today, which certainly does use sports as a source of revenue. Anyone who thinks UNC is the exception is living in denial.


I take it you haven't been following this very closely.



Not much. Unlike some, I am neither shocked nor surprised by the news that cheating is going on in top athletic (and academic) schools. IMO those thinking that Notre Dame and UNC are exceptions are simply naive.


purduefanatic



Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 2819
Location: Indiana


Back to top
PostPosted: 10/23/14 12:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:

Not much. Unlike some, I am neither shocked nor surprised by the news that cheating is going on in top athletic (and academic) schools. IMO those thinking that Notre Dame and UNC are exceptions are simply naive.


It most certainly is NOT SOP to have completely fictitious classes at a school of higher education. That goes a little above & beyond the scope of cheating in an actual class, on an actual paper or test, etc.

I don't think anyone is claiming that absolutely no cheating goes on at any school by any student. As long as schools have been teaching, students have been trying to figure out a way to get an easy grade with the least amount of work possible. Usually, it involves an actual class...that's the difference.


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550



Back to top
PostPosted: 10/23/14 1:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

purduefanatic wrote:
linkster wrote:

Not much. Unlike some, I am neither shocked nor surprised by the news that cheating is going on in top athletic (and academic) schools. IMO those thinking that Notre Dame and UNC are exceptions are simply naive.


It most certainly is NOT SOP to have completely fictitious classes at a school of higher education. That goes a little above & beyond the scope of cheating in an actual class, on an actual paper or test, etc.

I don't think anyone is claiming that absolutely no cheating goes on at any school by any student. As long as schools have been teaching, students have been trying to figure out a way to get an easy grade with the least amount of work possible. Usually, it involves an actual class...that's the difference.


Linkster knows that. Linkster's just trolling ND by straining to equate 5 players cheating on their own with an entire University Dept offering ficticious courses to 3000 students over a twenty year period. Even the most ardent troll knows there is no similarity whatsoever.


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550



Back to top
PostPosted: 10/23/14 1:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

By the way, two interesting items from the report:

"Our investigation revealed that the main reason Crowder and Nyang’oro undertook this scheme was their interest in helping students and student-athletes who were having difficulties in school. As for Crowder, it quickly became clear that this was her overriding passion in life. For a variety of reasons arising from her own experiences as a student (explained in Section IV.B.1), she saw it as her life’s mission to lend a helping hand to those who struggled, and she believed she was carrying out that mission through these paper AFAM classes. That belief came through in her emails – in which she routinely talked about helping students “plead their cases” – and every interviewee who knew Crowder emphasized the compassion she felt for troubled students."

They also point out though that Crowder was an ardent fan, and that her love for sports led her to provide special help to athletes.

Of particular relevance to this board:

"There were 114 enrollments of women’s basketball players in the
paper classes between 1999 and 2009. It appears that many of these players were likely steered to these classes by their counselor, Boxill. In fact, one email chain suggests that Nyang’oro would not consider a women’s basketball player’s request to enroll in one of his paper classes unless Boxill explicitly supported her request."

If, as I expect, much heavier NCAA sanctions are in store for UNC, I expect they will include the women's basketball program.


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550



Back to top
PostPosted: 10/23/14 1:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

As to non-athletes, btw, many of these people were also steered to the bogus courses by academic counselors trying to keep troubled kids in schools, and to keep scholarship students from losing their scholarships.

"Beyond mere word-of-mouth, there were several other avenues by which non-athlete students learned about these classes. One was through the academic advisors at the Steele Building who assist students in planning their schedules and progress through Chapel Hill’s curriculum. Over her 30-year tenure, Crowder became a part of what was affectionately called “the good old girls network,” which was a network of like-minded women in various roles on campus who took it upon themselves to support those students who were struggling with school. Some of these women were Steele Building academic advisors. These advisors knew about the paper classes; they knew that Crowder controlled enrollment; and they often referred academically-challenged students to Crowder for placement in those classes. For years, advisors like Betsy Taylor and Alice Dawson sent struggling students to Crowder, in the hope that these classes would alleviate the pressure on them.

Another referral venue was through the advisors for scholarship programs, including Carolina Covenant and Morehead-Cain Scholars. For example, we heard of one Morehead-Cain Scholar who was referred to Crowder for placement in a paper class when his GPA started to slip and he was in danger of losing his scholarship. Crowder placed him in a paper class, he got an A, and was able to keep his scholarship.

The largest source of referrals for non-athlete students – besides word-of-mouth – was the fraternity network on campus."


linkster



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 5408



Back to top
PostPosted: 10/23/14 1:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

purduefanatic wrote:
linkster wrote:

Not much. Unlike some, I am neither shocked nor surprised by the news that cheating is going on in top athletic (and academic) schools. IMO those thinking that Notre Dame and UNC are exceptions are simply naive.


It most certainly is NOT SOP to have completely fictitious classes at a school of higher education. That goes a little above & beyond the scope of cheating in an actual class, on an actual paper or test, etc.

I don't think anyone is claiming that absolutely no cheating goes on at any school by any student. As long as schools have been teaching, students have been trying to figure out a way to get an easy grade with the least amount of work possible. Usually, it involves an actual class...that's the difference.


Fictitious classes are only one manifestation of cheating. There are more ways to cheat than ways to leave your lover. Schools usually have policies to allow athletes priority in choosing classes since they need to accommodate their practices and games. Or at least that is the rationale. In reality it allows athletes to take classes taught by less than demanding professors in a group. The athletic depts. are usually not as involved as Notre Dame, where a dept employee actually wrote the term papers. Usually it's the son or daughter of a booster, or a girlfriend of an athlete who writes the paper.

I personally witnessed a group of football players fanned out behind a top student in an amphitheater lecture hall for a mid-term exam. Now some would say that it was just a coincidence that they got to the room early and looked like a flight of migrating geese but many would not. I might add that it was a school that was a horrible DII school. Factor in tens of millions annually and the motivation to cheat only increases.

After all, coaches teach ways to break rules without getting caught by officials. Hell, announcers often show replays where a db grabbed a jersey of a receiver in a way that the refs couldn't see and commented on the "advanced techniques" being taught while chuckling. This sort of mindset, that breaking rules is OK (even admired), .... as long as you don't get caught, is pervasive in our society. The biggest banks in the world have been found guilty of rigging world interest rates for decades. These people constitute the backbone of our societies, so should we be surprised that 20 year old's look for shortcuts.


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550



Back to top
PostPosted: 10/23/14 1:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:


Fictitious classes are only one manifestation of cheating. There are more ways to cheat than ways to leave your lover. Schools usually have policies to allow athletes priority in choosing classes since they need to accommodate their practices and games. Or at least that is the rationale. In reality it allows athletes to take classes taught by less than demanding professors in a group. The athletic depts. are usually not as involved as Notre Dame, where a dept employee actually wrote the term papers. Usually it's the son or daughter of a booster, or a girlfriend of an athlete who writes the paper.

I personally witnessed a group of football players fanned out behind a top student in an amphitheater lecture hall for a mid-term exam. Now some would say that it was just a coincidence that they got to the room early and looked like a flight of migrating geese but many would not. I might add that it was a school that was a horrible DII school. Factor in tens of millions annually and the motivation to cheat only increases.

After all, coaches teach ways to break rules without getting caught by officials. Hell, announcers often show replays where a db grabbed a jersey of a receiver in a way that the refs couldn't see and commented on the "advanced techniques" being taught while chuckling. This sort of mindset, that breaking rules is OK (even admired), .... as long as you don't get caught, is pervasive in our society. The biggest banks in the world have been found guilty of rigging world interest rates for decades. These people constitute the backbone of our societies, so should we be surprised that 20 year old's look for shortcuts.


"where a dept employee actually wrote the term papers"

Really? Would you like to provide a link for that or are you still just making stuff up? Yeah, that's what I thought.


linkster



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 5408



Back to top
PostPosted: 10/23/14 2:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
linkster wrote:


Fictitious classes are only one manifestation of cheating. There are more ways to cheat than ways to leave your lover. Schools usually have policies to allow athletes priority in choosing classes since they need to accommodate their practices and games. Or at least that is the rationale. In reality it allows athletes to take classes taught by less than demanding professors in a group. The athletic depts. are usually not as involved as Notre Dame, where a dept employee actually wrote the term papers. Usually it's the son or daughter of a booster, or a girlfriend of an athlete who writes the paper.

I personally witnessed a group of football players fanned out behind a top student in an amphitheater lecture hall for a mid-term exam. Now some would say that it was just a coincidence that they got to the room early and looked like a flight of migrating geese but many would not. I might add that it was a school that was a horrible DII school. Factor in tens of millions annually and the motivation to cheat only increases.

After all, coaches teach ways to break rules without getting caught by officials. Hell, announcers often show replays where a db grabbed a jersey of a receiver in a way that the refs couldn't see and commented on the "advanced techniques" being taught while chuckling. This sort of mindset, that breaking rules is OK (even admired), .... as long as you don't get caught, is pervasive in our society. The biggest banks in the world have been found guilty of rigging world interest rates for decades. These people constitute the backbone of our societies, so should we be surprised that 20 year old's look for shortcuts.


"where a dept employee actually wrote the term papers"

Really? Would you like to provide a link for that or are you still just making stuff up? Yeah, that's what I thought.


My link is right below yours that claimed that the 3100 students were, as you worded so carefully, " a certain segment of the school's student population." What segment were you referring to Art? People used to use phrases like "those people" or "not our type of person"

From what I read when this scandal was first reported papers were written by a student who was a part-time employee of the Notre Dame athletic office. It was pointed out then that because an athletic office employee was involved, the athletic dept can't plead ignorance like their counterparts at UNC. I'll dig through some sites to find the source as soon as you identify what "a certain segment of the student population refers to and post a link to that.


linkster



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 5408



Back to top
PostPosted: 10/23/14 3:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

http://irish.nbcsports.com/2014/09/17/jenkins-addresses-football-suspensions-to-notre-dame-faculty/



Quote:
[Jenkins] said the athletic department’s compliance office became aware of “a potentially problematic situation involving a current student athlete as well as a student who served for a brief time as a paid student employee of the athletic department, although that position had no role in academic tutoring or advising of student athletes.”


Quote:
“I want to underscore that the current investigation has not revealed any misconduct or knowledge of impropriety by regular, full-time staff,” he said. “However, given the student’s brief status as a paid employee, there was the possibility of what the NCAA considers an ‘excess benefit’ given to the student athlete by a representative of the institution.”


I'm shocked that Art never was aware of this, especially since it was the statement of Jenkins and not some Notre Dame hater.


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550



Back to top
PostPosted: 10/23/14 3:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So early on, before there was an investigation, there was a possibility that someone at sometime in the past - not necessarily when the incidents in question occurred - had a part time student job, which involved "no role in academic tutoring or advising of student athletes,” somewhere in the athletic department. Could have been a ticket taker for all you know.

And you would like to equate that to an entire department at UNC sponsoring fake classes and giving out fake grades to thousands of students over a 20 year period.

Yeah, that's what I figured. You're just trolling I see. As usual.

Plus, I'd like to see where anyone said that the student "actually wrote the term papers." More made up stuff, right?


linkster



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 5408



Back to top
PostPosted: 10/23/14 3:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
linkster wrote:

From what I read when this scandal was first reported papers were written by a student who was a part-time employee of the Notre Dame athletic office. It was pointed out then that because an athletic office employee was involved, the athletic dept can't plead ignorance like their counterparts at UNC. I'll dig through some sites to find the source as soon as you identify what "a certain segment of the student population refers to and post a link to that.


In other words you have nothing and are just trolling.


Read the above post Art and then apologize please. I can post several cases of past Notre Dame cheating scandals but like I said in a post above, it's a story similar to "dog bites man" Hell, there have been similar scandals at the service academies, not even involving athletics. A large part of why Army stopped being a top-ranked team in the 50's was due to the inability of many high-ranked prospects to handle the academics without "help"

IMO if you want to run with the big dogs of college football you have to be wiling to wallow in the muck.


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550



Back to top
PostPosted: 10/23/14 3:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
linkster wrote:

From what I read when this scandal was first reported papers were written by a student who was a part-time employee of the Notre Dame athletic office. It was pointed out then that because an athletic office employee was involved, the athletic dept can't plead ignorance like their counterparts at UNC. I'll dig through some sites to find the source as soon as you identify what "a certain segment of the student population refers to and post a link to that.


In other words you have nothing and are just trolling.


Read the above post Art and then apologize please. I can post several cases of past Notre Dame cheating scandals but like I said in a post above, it's a story similar to "dog bites man" Hell, there have been similar scandals at the service academies, not even involving athletics. A large part of why Army stopped being a top-ranked team in the 50's was due to the inability of many high-ranked prospects to handle the academics without "help"

IMO if you want to run with the big dogs of college football you have to be wiling to wallow in the muck.


Last time. Please explain how a handful of students getting help from a fellow student in editing papers equates in any way shape or form to a systematic process by an entire university department in coordination with the athletic department offering completely ficticious course and fixing grades for thousands of students over a 20 year period, resulting in criminal indictments, among other things.

Of course you know it doesn't and your ridiculous effort to drag Notre Dame into this thread when there is no connection or similarity whatsoever is nothing but your usual trolling. You're not fooling anyone. Now I'm done with you here, so flail away on your own if you choose.


linkster



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 5408



Back to top
PostPosted: 10/23/14 3:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
So early on, before there was an investigation, there was a possibility that someone at sometime in the past - not necessarily when the incidents in question occurred - had a part time student job, which involved "no role in academic tutoring or advising of student athletes,” somewhere in the athletic department. Could have been a ticket taker for all you know.

And you would like to equate that to an entire department at UNC sponsoring fake classes and giving out fake grades to thousands of students over a 20 year period.

Yeah, that's what I figured. You're just trolling I see. As usual.

Plus, I'd like to see where anyone said that the student "actually wrote the term papers." More made up stuff, right?


I don't remember ever equating those 2 incidents. I'd rather say that it was like Golson's cheating on an exam or maybe this example:

Quote:
Investigation Lands Football Program on First-Ever Probation

Share
Published: Spring 2000
Author: Notre Dame Magazine staff

Athletics personnel are now expected to report any situation that even suggests improper conduct or potential rules violations. More than ever before, coaches will be evaluated on the progress their players make off the field. And every official fan club of a Notre Dame team has been disbanded.

Those are some of the actions President Malloy said the University has taken in light of an NCAA investigation that culminated last December with the athletics program being found guilty of major rules violations for the first time in its history.

The violations involved mainly gifts and other items of value given to football players by a woman who became romantically involved with several players. Also, a player was found to have offered complimentary tickets to his girlfriend in lieu of paying her back money she loaned him. Another player paid a tutor to write a paper for him.

The NCAA’s Division I Committee on Infractions placed the football program on two years probation and reduced by one the number of grants-in-aid the team can offer in recruiting during each of the next two years. The penalty is not likely to have any material effect on recruiting because in recent years Notre Dame has seldom awarded the maximum permissible number of athletic scholarships (currently 85). The probation also does not affect the University’s eligibility for bowl games or its television contract.

Reacting to the NCAA verdict, President Malloy emphasized renewed an increased vigilance to prevent any further rules violations.

“Notre Dame has a proud tradition in athletics, not only for doing well but also for doing right,” he said. “We regret these incidents, and I pledge my own and my administration’s most diligent effort to avoid such problems in the future.”

Malloy underscored that commitment personally in an unprecedented mandatory meeting with all coaches, other athletic-department staff and student-athletes the first day of spring semester. Notre Dame’s decision to get rid of its booster clubs for every sport is believed to be unprecedented among college athletic programs.

The NCAA investigation focused on two cases, both of which were brought to the attention of the NCAA’s infractions staff by Notre Dame – as is the University’s policy with any potential rules violation.

One case involved a woman, Kimberly Dunbar, who worked several years as a bookkeeper for a South Bend heating and air conditioning contractor. Over several years she made friends with a number of Notre Dame football players and became romantically involved with some. She bought the players gifts and treated them to outings at professional sports events. By all accounts, the players did not know that the source of her generosity was hundreds of thousands of dollars she was embezzling from her employer.

The other case involved a football player’s girlfriend who was a Notre Dame student employed part time as a tutor in the Office of Academic Services for Student-Athletes. The young woman told University investigators last fall that while employed by the University she accepted complimentary tickets to games from her boyfriend in lieu of his repaying $200 she’s loaned him. (It’s a violation of NCAA rules for student-athletes to receive anything of value for their complimentary tickets.) After graduating in 1998, she continued tutoring on an on-call basis. She admitted that during this period she accepted $20 to $30 from a friend and teammate of her boyfriend to compose a paper for him for a class.

By the time the NCAA committee reached its verdict last December, Dunbar had been convicted, imprisoned and released early by virtue of completing a college degree while behind bars. The only players involved in the case who were still students were those who had attended a Chicago Bulls game at her expense. With the NCAA’s agreement, the University required these players to donate the value of that trip to charities of their choice, and their eligibility was restored. The part-time tutor – who committed other rules violations by treating football players and other student-athletes to meals at restaurants around South Bend and by paying for two hotel stays, among other wrongs – was terminated. The teammate who bought the paper (for a management class, which he still flunked) withdrew from the University.

As is its policy with all disciplinary matters, the University has not made public the names of the students involved.

Historically, the NCAA has taken the attitude that gifts to student-athletes violate rules against players receiving extra benefits only when the gifts are provided by employees or alumni of the University or if they come from people with some other formal connection to the athletics program, such as membership in a school-sponsored booster club. The girlfriend-tutor was employed by Notre Dame. Dunbar was neither an employee no an alumna. However, in the NCAA’s eyes she became a representative of the University’s athletic interests when, in mid-1995 – well after she began dating and giving gifts to football players – she joined the Quarterback Club.

Disbanded soon after Dunbar’s actions came to light, the Quarterback Club originated as a handful of local businessmen who would meet for breakfast with Coach Ara Parseghian. By the late 1990s, the club had grown to 1,400 members, but its only activity was a luncheon at the Joyce Center the day before home games. The only benefit of the $25 annual dues was the right to purchase tickets to those luncheons.

Another issue in the cases involved gift-giving and romantic relationships. The NCAA has long deemed it to be within the rules for a student-athlete to receive gifts from a boyfriend or girlfriend, even if that person is an alumnus of a university employee. But the Committee on Infractions – composed of law professors, retired judges and academics – deemed that interpretation to be too broad. The committee pointed out that an outsider might conceivably pursue a romantic relationship with a player with the specific intention of evading the rules against players receiving extra benefits.

Given the facts of the cases and how Notre Dame officials responded, the Committee on Infractions could have found Notre Dame guilty of a secondary, rather than a major, rules violation. Among the reasons the committee gave for the harsher judgment were that the violations occurred over a long period of time (according to investigators, Dunbar began dating and giving gifts to her first Notre Dame player in late 1993) and the extravagant nature of the gifts (one of her final spending sprees came in January 1998, when she treated several players, other Notre Dame students, and other friends and relatives to a night in a private box at a Chicago Bulls game; estimated cost: $20,000). The committee said Notre Dame’s athletic officials should have known or suspected what was happening and taken action sooner.


Want to explain how a bookkeeper had 20K for entertaining Notre Dame footballers? Could she have acting as an agent of some Notre Dame booster?


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550



Back to top
PostPosted: 10/23/14 3:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:
Want to explain how a bookkeeper had 20K for entertaining Notre Dame footballers? Could she have acting as an agent of some Notre Dame booster?


More ignorant trolling. She went to jail for embezzlement. Her source of money had nothing to do with Notre Dame, and her only connection to Notre Dame was that she had paid $25 once to attend a regular Friday football luncheon along with 2,000 other people. That one payment was her one and only tenuous link to the university.

Do you act like this in all aspects of your life, simply making up nonsense? Or do you only do this when you're internet trolling?


linkster



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 5408



Back to top
PostPosted: 10/23/14 3:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Here is what I posted here and what best describes my opinion on this. Hardly trolling Notre Dame. More like a sober look at elite level college football.................... without tinted glasses. (of any color) Smile

Quote:
I am neither shocked nor surprised by the news that cheating is going on in top athletic (and academic) schools. IMO those thinking that Notre Dame and UNC are exceptions are simply naive.


Sorry if these 2 examples are the latest to surface.


Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » NCAA Women's Basketball - General Discussion All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 1 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB 2.0.17 © 2001- 2004 phpBB Group
phpBB Template by Vjacheslav Trushkin