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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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 Posted: 09/04/14 11:23 pm ::: |
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| mercfan3 wrote: |
Absolutely ridiculous.
And shame on whatever school that did that. That phone call probably made Mo'ne's day. She made it known she was a fan. She might not be (actually probably won't be) good enough to play at Uconn anyway..but of course, Geno can't do anything nice.
Just asshole behavior on the part of the AD that called it in. |
There are rules. It's a violation of the rules.
The schools write the rules. If they don't like the rules, then change them. If they don't change the rules, then follow them. It's not that hard.
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Rocky Top7
Joined: 26 Jul 2014
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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| Posted: 09/05/14 2:04 am ::: |
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| mercfan3 wrote: |
Absolutely ridiculous.
And shame on whatever school that did that. That phone call probably made Mo'ne's day. She made it known she was a fan. She might not be (actually probably won't be) good enough to play at Uconn anyway..but of course, Geno can't do anything nice.
Just asshole behavior on the part of the AD that called it in. |
So you're saying as long as the coach means well they can break the rules?
The NCAA determined it was a violation, so the AD was not in wrong, and technically speaking even if the NCAA determined it not to be a violation the AD would not be in the wrong because they believed it to be a violation.
All ADs and NCAA people could have overlooked it, but reporting a violation is not a-hole behavior.
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Oldfandepot2
Joined: 05 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 09/05/14 6:39 am ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| mercfan3 wrote: |
Absolutely ridiculous.
And shame on whatever school that did that. That phone call probably made Mo'ne's day. She made it known she was a fan. She might not be (actually probably won't be) good enough to play at Uconn anyway..but of course, Geno can't do anything nice.
Just asshole behavior on the part of the AD that called it in. |
There are rules. It's a violation of the rules.
The schools write the rules. If they don't like the rules, then change them. If they don't change the rules, then follow them. It's not that hard. |
As in law, so too with NCAA their rules are subject to interpretation that is why there are judges in the court room and in the case of the NCAA arbiters to interpret the rules. They are not absolutes there are gray areas subject to reason and common sense. In this case the NCAA completely missed it.
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Phil
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 09/05/14 7:08 am ::: |
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He checked with the school compliance officer, who checked the rules, and concluded it was within the rules. Here's the rule:
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| 13.02.11 Prospective Student-Athlete. A prospective student-athlete is a student who has started classes for the ninth grade. In addition, a student who has not started classes for the ninth grade becomes a prospective student-athlete if the institution provides such an individual (or the individual�s relatives or friends) any financial assistance or other benefits that the institution does not provide to prospective students generally. |
She hasn't started classes, so she isn't a Prospective Student-Athlete.
The way the NCAA decided it was a violation is so absurd, that even Geno-haters should be embarrassed by it. The NCAA looked at the wording about telephone calls and it talks about calls to "individuals". It didn't use the term Prospective Student-Athlete. She is cleanly an individual, so he shouldn't have called her.
If you haven't grasped out outrageous this is, consider that, if the NCAA really meant this, a coach should not be permitted to call their children. After all they are individuals.
Shall we start reporting every coach who made a phone call to their child, before their junior year?
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Phil
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 09/05/14 7:16 am ::: |
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| GEF34 wrote: |
All ADs and NCAA people could have overlooked it, but reporting a violation is not a-hole behavior. |
Yes, it is.
Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that the point of defining who is a Prospective Student-Athlete is to identify who is the subject of the rules. To see an identification of Prospective Student-Athlete, then conclude that the rule about calling is about some other group is ludicrous.
If they honestly think that is the right interpretation of the rule, I want a sworn affidavit that no one on their staff has ever had a phone conversation with someone before their junior year. Not to possible athletes, but anyone. They can't say that.
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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| Posted: 09/05/14 8:57 am ::: |
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This thread is kinda funny. Why someone is considered an a-hole for reporting an NCAA violation that they knew about is beyond me. The reality is that this is a minor violation and amounts to basically a slap on the wrist.
And for whoever ranted about calling their own child...I just have to lol. Come on now.
I am continually amazed at the almost rabid protection of Geno/UConn that fans have. I swear he could commit a felony and be caught on camera doing so and many fans would find some way to justify his actions and blame the cops while referring to them as a-holes for upholding the law.
Just so as not to confuse the situation, that was a hypothetical and not meant in any way to compare his phone call & the NCAA interpretation vs the situation above. Again, not making a comparison or saying it was a bad thing he did.
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Beemer
Joined: 19 Jul 2014
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ucbart
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 09/05/14 9:42 am ::: |
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| purduefanatic wrote: |
This thread is kinda funny. Why someone is considered an a-hole for reporting an NCAA violation that they knew about is beyond me. The reality is that this is a minor violation and amounts to basically a slap on the wrist.
And for whoever ranted about calling their own child...I just have to lol. Come on now.
I am continually amazed at the almost rabid protection of Geno/UConn that fans have. I swear he could commit a felony and be caught on camera doing so and many fans would find some way to justify his actions and blame the cops while referring to them as a-holes for upholding the law.
Just so as not to confuse the situation, that was a hypothetical and not meant in any way to compare his phone call & the NCAA interpretation vs the situation above. Again, not making a comparison or saying it was a bad thing he did. |
I agree that this will amount to nothing more than a slap on the wrist, but it seems as though Geno is under attack more than any other WCBB coach ever has been, by a long shot. Now, some of this is his own doing certainly, because of the way he speaks his mind. With that being said though, he is also attacked for things that no other coach would even be looked at for. While this is technically a violation, I think it's a rather ridiculous one. Geno has never seen her play basketball, she is from Philly, as is he and he is an icon to her. It's a great gesture and shows what kind of person Geno really is. I want to know which school turned him in! The funny thing is this, if Mo'ne is good enough to play basketball at UCONN, this will fuel the fires of his haters even more in 6 years.
So Purduefanatic, if your Sharon Versyp was attacked this much, you would defend her too.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 09/05/14 9:49 am ::: |
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The NCAA is sort of where the Olympics were before they allowed professionals to compete: There's no way to control or monitor what's going on, so there are all these little rules in place -- and the little rules are easier to enforce than the big, overarching one that the NCAA is a huge, huge business and no more "amateur" than Microsoft.
I'm a free market guy in this case: Let anyone do what they want, pay the players, give them cars, whatever. The market will determine what's overpaying and what isn't. If a scholarship is enough to attract elite athletes, that's great; if a school doesn't want to pay the going rate for talent, that's great too; let it all shake out in a level-playing-field, capitalist competition.
Sure, we'd wind up with a few schools dominating, but you know what? That's what we have now, except we get all riled up over a coach calling a girl and congratulating her on an athletic achievement. Please ... is that really a recruiting advantage? I doubt anyone has seen this girl play basketball, much less know if she's D-1 caliber.
It's a big business. Let's treat it like one.
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Phil
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 09/05/14 10:06 am ::: |
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| purduefanatic wrote: |
.
And for whoever ranted about calling their own child...I just have to lol. Come on now.
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That was me. Why are you laughing?
I hope you are laughing because it is absurd that the NCAA would sanction anyone for calling there own child. Yet, that it prohibited, based upon their own logic.
They either mean that the prohibition on calling applies to Prospective Student-Athlete or they don't. Of they thought it meant Prospective Student-Athletes, which is the common sense interpretation, then it was not a violation.
However, they found a violation, which means they think "individual" doesn't refer to Prospective Student-Athletes. How on earth can they argue that a call to one individual is a violation, but not to another?
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 09/05/14 10:18 am ::: |
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| Phil wrote: |
| purduefanatic wrote: |
.
And for whoever ranted about calling their own child...I just have to lol. Come on now.
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That was me. Why are you laughing?
I hope you are laughing because it is absurd that the NCAA would sanction anyone for calling there own child. Yet, that it prohibited, based upon their own logic.
They either mean that the prohibition on calling applies to Prospective Student-Athlete or they don't. Of they thought it meant Prospective Student-Athletes, which is the common sense interpretation, then it was not a violation.
However, they found a violation, which means they think "individual" doesn't refer to Prospective Student-Athletes. How on earth can they argue that a call to one individual is a violation, but not to another? |
I'm not going to look it up but I believe that the rules exempt gifts, contacts, and everything else with family members and other persons with whom one has a pre-existing personal relationship so the analogy is inapposite.
Would Geno have made this call if the girl hadn't said she wanted a UConn basketball scholarship and wasn't wearing around a UConn sweatshirt? Pretending there was no basketball recruiting connection just isn't accurate in this day and age when 7th graders are getting offers and making verbal commitments.
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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Location: Indiana
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| Posted: 09/05/14 10:25 am ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Phil wrote: |
| purduefanatic wrote: |
.
And for whoever ranted about calling their own child...I just have to lol. Come on now.
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That was me. Why are you laughing?
I hope you are laughing because it is absurd that the NCAA would sanction anyone for calling there own child. Yet, that it prohibited, based upon their own logic.
They either mean that the prohibition on calling applies to Prospective Student-Athlete or they don't. Of they thought it meant Prospective Student-Athletes, which is the common sense interpretation, then it was not a violation.
However, they found a violation, which means they think "individual" doesn't refer to Prospective Student-Athletes. How on earth can they argue that a call to one individual is a violation, but not to another? |
I'm not going to look it up but I believe that the rules exempt gifts, contacts, and everything else with family members and other persons with whom one has a pre-existing personal relationship so the analogy is inapposite.
Would Geno have made this call if the girl hadn't said she wanted a UConn basketball scholarship and wasn't wearing around a UConn sweatshirt? Pretending there was no basketball recruiting connection just isn't accurate in this day and age when 7th graders are getting offers and making verbal commitments. |
Yes, prior relationships have exceptions. I know a coach that had neighbors who were very good friends. Their daughter was very close and ended up babysitting for her. Well, that girl ended up becoming a top prospect. They had to adjust their relationship in that whenever they were together (neighborhood gathering, babysitting, etc), they just couldn't talk about basketball or the school. But you could certainly be with them and go to games and all that stuff.
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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Location: Indiana
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| Posted: 09/05/14 10:29 am ::: |
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| ucbart wrote: |
So Purduefanatic, if your Sharon Versyp was attacked this much, you would defend her too. |
She is attacked quite frequently by Purdue fans. She doesn't recruit well enough, she can't seem to get beyond the 2nd round, she isn't as likeable as they want, etc etc etc. I just laugh it off and let it go.
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Phil
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 09/05/14 10:33 am ::: |
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| purduefanatic wrote: |
| ucbart wrote: |
So Purduefanatic, if your Sharon Versyp was attacked this much, you would defend her too. |
She is attacked quite frequently by Purdue fans. She doesn't recruit well enough, she can't seem to get beyond the 2nd round, she isn't as likeable as they want, etc etc etc. I just laugh it off and let it go. |
I liked her when we chatted in the Virgin Islands, although I didn't get to spend much time with her.
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ucbart
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 09/05/14 2:02 pm ::: |
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| purduefanatic wrote: |
| ucbart wrote: |
So Purduefanatic, if your Sharon Versyp was attacked this much, you would defend her too. |
She is attacked quite frequently by Purdue fans. She doesn't recruit well enough, she can't seem to get beyond the 2nd round, she isn't as likeable as they want, etc etc etc. I just laugh it off and let it go. |
Completely different set of attacks, and you know it.
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Brinx
Joined: 03 Oct 2013
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| Posted: 09/05/14 3:59 pm ::: |
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This whole situation is petty. Sure, Geno broke the letter of the law but he didn't break the spirit of it. There really wasn't anything to be gained by Uconn for making that short congratulatory call and it's really hard to believe that anybody sincerely believed that he did.
The saddest part is the negative attention this is getting. It's making the NCAA look petty (lord knows they don't need any help there), is making people speculate about other programs (who done it witch hunt), and made a 13 year old girl feel bad about some of the attention her performance earned.
Also, another DI coach tweeted encouraging words to Davis but no one seemed to report that; which only makes the whole thing seem even more petty as it seems to have been done to hurt Geno/Uconn more than to enforce the rules.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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| Posted: 09/05/14 4:20 pm ::: |
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| When do we learn the identity of the reporting institution?
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ucbart
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 09/05/14 4:26 pm ::: |
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| cthskzfn wrote: |
| When do we learn the identity of the reporting institution? |
They don't have to identify themselves, but I hope someone starts talking.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 09/05/14 4:44 pm ::: |
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| ucbart wrote: |
| cthskzfn wrote: |
| When do we learn the identity of the reporting institution? |
They don't have to identify themselves, but I hope someone starts talking. |
Why? Seriously, what difference does it make?
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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| Posted: 09/05/14 4:52 pm ::: |
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| ucbart wrote: |
| purduefanatic wrote: |
| ucbart wrote: |
So Purduefanatic, if your Sharon Versyp was attacked this much, you would defend her too. |
She is attacked quite frequently by Purdue fans. She doesn't recruit well enough, she can't seem to get beyond the 2nd round, she isn't as likeable as they want, etc etc etc. I just laugh it off and let it go. |
Completely different set of attacks, and you know it. |
"Attacks"? LOL, my god some of you UConn fans. Wow. You think Geno gives a flying fuck about this? If anything, he is loving the attention this is bringing to him & the program and how he looks like he was just being a good guy. That is huge.
You all need to take a big step back and look at it without being all pissed off. This is absolutely great publicity for him.
I'm sure every coach in the country would welcome this type of "attack" where they were doing a goodwill type of thing.
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 09/05/14 5:49 pm ::: |
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I'm not convinced that it was a violation by any reasonable reading of the rule, but even if it was, whoever called it in was petty, obnoxious and stupid.
Why it's petty and obnoxious, I think, is obvious.
It's stupid because (a) there's no real impact on Geno; and (b) to the extent she ends up being a good enough player to go to UConn, this episode probably increased the likelihood that would happen because she doesn't think he did anything wrong.
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bekcat1
Joined: 24 Feb 2011
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| Posted: 09/05/14 9:01 pm ::: |
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| beknighted wrote: |
I'm not convinced that it was a violation by any reasonable reading of the rule, but even if it was, whoever called it in was petty, obnoxious and stupid.
Why it's petty and obnoxious, I think, is obvious.
It's stupid because (a) there's no real impact on Geno; and (b) to the extent she ends up being a good enough player to go to UConn, this episode probably increased the likelihood that would happen because she doesn't think he did anything wrong. |
The whole thing is ridiculous. And I say that as a Tennessee fan who would like nothing more than to see Geno get in trouble. And I agree that, if anything, it solidifies Mo'ne's resolve to go to UConn. What bothers me about the whole thing is that some reporter thought it was a great idea to ask the young lady what she thought about it. It just doesn't sit right with me for some reason...and not because it's Geno and UConn. This kid got a whole lot of attention for a great reason (her pitching performances) and now she's getting a whole lot of attention over some grownup's foolishness that she just happened to get caught up in. Why ask her about it?
I do wonder, however, who would be petty enough to report this. The whole thing is so trivial.
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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| Posted: 09/05/14 10:02 pm ::: |
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| Phil wrote: |
| GEF34 wrote: |
All ADs and NCAA people could have overlooked it, but reporting a violation is not a-hole behavior. |
Yes, it is.
Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that the point of defining who is a Prospective Student-Athlete is to identify who is the subject of the rules. To see an identification of Prospective Student-Athlete, then conclude that the rule about calling is about some other group is ludicrous.
If they honestly think that is the right interpretation of the rule, I want a sworn affidavit that no one on their staff has ever had a phone conversation with someone before their junior year. Not to possible athletes, but anyone. They can't say that. |
So anytime anyone reports a violation they are being an a-hole or doing a-hole behavior, or just this specific situation? If they believe it's a violation, then they should report it.
As for your second part, that reminds me of the "don't throw stones if you live in a glass house" saying, and generally speaking people overlook violations all the time when they take into consideration the situation, like I'm sure many people overlooked this situation, but that doesn't make the person or people who reported this are a-holes or doing a-hole behavior.
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