RebKell's Junkie Boards

[NoDakSt]

This week it was announced that former Texas Women's Had Coach-Former Duke Women's Head Coach-Former Purdue Asst. Coach Gail Goestenkors was selected to the Women's Basketball Hall of fame. THe announcement came the same day that she resigned as Asst. Coach to the LA Sparks amidst the firing of Carol Ross.

However, it's difficult to find anyone trumpeting her success.

Not on the Texas website where she took over after Hall of Famer Jody Conradt stepped down. Goestenkors resigned (retired) from this position after 4 season.

Not on the Duke website, which really, is where most her success has come from (leading Duke to 4 Final Fours and 10 consecutive appearances in at least the Sweet 16 of the NCAAs). She stamped her name on this program.

Not at Purdue where she assisted legendary Coach Lin Dunn.

However, if you go to the website for Saginaw Valley State, on the womens' basketball page you find:

http://www.svsucardinals.com/sports/wbkb/2014-15/releases/2014072428vyaj

[beknighted]

I am not the world's greatest GG fan, but that's kind of pathetic, particularly at Duke.

I can't speak for other institutions, but Rutgers has a banner honoring Theresa Grentz for her induction into the WBHOF, and she was inducted well after she left.

[readyAIMfire53]

[ArtBest23]

I'm curious what folks think about her HOF selection. When I first saw it my reaction was nice career, lots of success, but is that really HOF material? I don't have a strong feeling either way, but I'd like to know what the standards for selection are.

[NoDakSt]

[LegoMyEggo]

I lean toward Art's sentiment in that I was mildly surprised by her inclusion. I was further surprised that she was the lede as the story was presented, seemingly over Lisa Leslie? My guess is she is pretty tight with influential members of the committee. Clearly, she had success, so I guess it's fine.

The other part that came to me when thinking about this is that with UConn's domination and the seemingly shrinking pool of elite talent to supply other teams, as the years go on, resumes for coaches getting inducted may not be quite as "Wow!". I would think any coach that wins a national championship is guaranteed entry at this point, because there just aren't many.

[pilight]

[GlennMacGrady]

I know a guy who is quite plugged into the highest levels of the Duke alumni association. He tells a rather colorful story about the primary reason GG was pressured out of Duke. I don't know if it's true, so I won't repeat it--but the broader gist is that certain powerful alums were behind much of the pressure. If that's true, it would at least explain the continuing, post-Alleva shunning of GG.

_________________
http://www.youtube.com/MagicBusBasketball

[PUmatty]

If Purdue and Lin Dunn can make up, I have to think any coach-institution rift can be healed.

[LegoMyEggo]

I have a hard time believing she was pressured out. At the time it happened, GG and her people couldn't trumpet loud enough that she was joining the million $ per year coaching club and that she was taking her rightful place next to Pat and Geno. Several TV personalities were all but guaranteeing national championships for Texas.

Actually, Texas has a real chance to be a contender with the players Karen Aston is bringing in.

[ClayK]

[CamrnCrz1974]

[GlennMacGrady]

As I say, I don't know whether it's true or false. I do know my friend claims that he is personal friends with the huge donor who applied most of the pressure.

In any event, the Texas job was open at the same time, Texas was interested in Goestenkors, and she accepted the job.

A Duke Chronicle article at the time minimized the Texas financial lure, saying: "A source familiar with Goestenkors' thinking said the recently divorced coach heavily weighed her personal life in the decision."

I also find it mildly interesting that Goestenkors for some reason felt it necessary to assert: "The administration has not pushed me out the door or pressured me in any way shape or form." Why would she say that unless there were stories afloat about pressure?

_________________
http://www.youtube.com/MagicBusBasketball

[Howee]

Hearsay + Hypotheticals = Mythology. Interesting, but seldom Real.

Gail is a class act. She was one of The Best, in her heyday, and she did it in a way that didn't seem to irritate people like .... well, like some others coaches we all know and love.

Speaking of *others*, consider that, at her peak, GG was of the status as a Geno, Pat, Tara, Kim, Jodi, or Sylvia. Then, after years of successful recruiting and program building....there's a rift, and she's dethroned, taken away from everything she built there at Duke. That she encountered less than stellar results in TX isn't the least bit surprising. The exact same thing would have happened to Geno, Pat, Tara, Kim, and Sylvia. Guaranteed. Even Jodi lost her hold on TX.

Her collegiate record stands as an objective testament to her professional skill. Her many other contributions include working with the pros, and on Team USA.

I didn't think you had to be popular to qualify for the HOF. Just Damned Good. And she is.

_________________
Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"

[ArtBest23]

[PRballer]

If Debbie Ryan and Chris Weller are in the WBHOF, then Gail absolutely should be.

[ScottS]

Could it be as simple as GG left Duke to Texas for way more $ and Duke doesn't like that she left?

[beknighted]

[ArtBest23]

Those are good points. Which is why I asked well up the thread what the standards are (or should be), a question which remains largely unanswered.

There's a serious question of how high the bar should be. Making it too easy might stroke a lot of people's (and fans') egos, but devalues it for the truly deserving. It should really mean something, but it shouldn't be impossible either.

Ryan is almost a perfect match to Goestenkors. About 70% wins, 3 final fours, lots of ACC titles, a Naismith COY. If one should be in, both should. Weller is a tougher case. But I don't think showing you're as good as someone already in means you shoul be in. All that would do is compound the error.

It seems we ought to define what the standards ought to be before we can discuss who meets those standards. My own reaction is that Goestenkors (and Ryan), are pretty borderline.

Peck would be a good discusion too. I think she probably is a lock, but there's a question whether she should be. But again, what are the standards that should be met?

[LegoMyEggo]

I think with Ryan and Weller, you're talking about two pioneers of the sport. I don't have a problem with GG going in, but I was mildly surprised it came this soon. She did establish Duke on the national scene.

The problem with making it based on hard numbers is that there simply aren't enough great players to go around to allow more coaches to really make runs at Final Fours/National Championships.

[beknighted]

[ArtBest23]

I didn't say I thought Peck SHOULD be, only that I think she WILL be a lock, yes because of her NC. Given the paucity of coaches with that distinction, my bet is it will be enough regardless of how thin the rest of her resume.

Which is why I think it's a good discussion. How much should longevity count? How does one NC count vs three or four FFs? , Does her broadcast career count towards her contibution to the game? How does her WNBA record factor in, if at all?

[LegoMyEggo]

Would you vote Mike Thibault in? He is the winningest WNBA coach.

[LegoMyEggo]

Jim Foster is in, due to a long track record of service with both college and USA basketball. I think he had one Final Four at Vanderbilt. A bunch of conference titles at Ohio State.

[beknighted]