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ucbart
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 Posted: 06/04/14 7:46 am ::: Kia Nurse |
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| Can anyone give me, I hate to say it because these are sometimes pointless, a player comparison on Kia Nurse? I'm also wondering what kind of an impact she may have at the college level. I know she is on the Canadian National Team, and if she were a hockey player, this would be really exciting, but she is a basketball player. She looks really good on video and I'm just wondering how high her ceiling is at UCONN?
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GlennMacGrady
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| Posted: 06/04/14 12:09 pm ::: |
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#11, Red.
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/mUy50ENGYUQ?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> |
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linkster
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| Posted: 06/04/14 12:30 pm ::: Re: Kia Nurse |
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| ucbart wrote: |
| Can anyone give me, I hate to say it because these are sometimes pointless, a player comparison on Kia Nurse? I'm also wondering what kind of an impact she may have at the college level. I know she is on the Canadian National Team, and if she were a hockey player, this would be really exciting, but she is a basketball player. She looks really good on video and I'm just wondering how high her ceiling is at UCONN? |
The $64,000 question.
I have seen a video or two and comments from her coach but experience has taught me to be cautious and take those with a grain of salt.
Certainly the level of talent in Canada is less than the US but when a 16/17 year old not only makes the national team but starts at pg it has to indicate at least a high level of maturity. Remember that Achonwa and Pilypaitis were/are on the same team but didn't start. She held her own at the FIBA-America tournament last summer, playing against guards who were in their late 20's with years of international experience. Compare that to her freshman classmates from the US who were praised for their play in the U16 or U17 FIBA-america qualifying tournament. I would say she played in a much tougher tournament. She is expected to start for her team in the world championships this Sept. and I'd love to see her team get to play the US team. I doubt she would be a "deer in the headlights" freshman after that experience.
This year's freshman class at CT also includes a player who spent the last year training with males instead of playing HS ball (Ekmark) and an potential Olympic level high-jumper who is rehabbing her second ACL Williams). ASGR puts her at the virtual top of their class.
Lots of potential. Lots of questions.
I'd pay to attend the preseason practices in Storrs.
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linkster
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Martini Man
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| Posted: 06/04/14 2:57 pm ::: |
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| Being a Canadian myself, I for one will be rooting for Nurse. A Canadian on my favorite (Uconn Huskies) team?? I'm in heaven.
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GlennMacGrady
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| Posted: 06/04/14 4:31 pm ::: |
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That's an excellent stat page, which I think can shed lots of light on Nurse's potential. It lists 49 games that Nurse has played on the Ontario Provincial Team and the Canadian National team. That's a lot more than one college season of data. Here are Nurse's stats over those 49 games:
12.7 PPG
41.5 FG% (207-499)
32.2 3FG% (37-115). An average of O.76 3FG made per game.
3.3 RPG
1.4 APG
2.8 TOPG
O.51 A/TO
Mostly from these stats, plus a few video games I've seen, I'd conclude that Nurse:
- Was a decent scorer for a point guard in those 49 games, though there's no way of ascertaining the level of competition. Some international teams are really good, others really terrible.
- Had an okay FG% for a guard.
- Had a below average 3FG% even by high school standards.
- Had an extremely poor record for assists, turnovers and A/TO.
From these stats and some optics, I'd say she has a very, very long row to hoe to make it as either a point guard or shooting guard at UConn. Unless she improves dramatically in those areas, I would project her as a bench player below the top 8 of the rotation. Chong, Edwards and Ekmark are all likely better shooters, and Chong is certainly a far superior passer. If Durr commits to UConn the following year, she would immediately jump way ahead of Nurse in the rotation.
Geno began recruiting Nurse very late in the process, just a few months before signing day in mid-November 2013. This is subjective, but I always wondered if that was because he was always unsure about A'ja Wilson's interest in UConn and he had scholarships to burn for needed depth. It never made complete sense to me for UConn to recruit a fourth guard from the same 2014 class, and five total guards from 2013-14. |
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linkster
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| Posted: 06/04/14 5:15 pm ::: |
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I did see that in her last group of games her A/T was a much better 1.36.
My background is in horse racing and an incoming freshman is similar to a 2 year old maiden. Often their workout times show nothing but mediocrity but then you check their pedigree and discover that they have a full brother who won the Breeders Cup Juvenile race. Those types usually win when the starting gate opens. Of course it's no guarantee but Nurse's brother was a first round draft pick in the NHL. If nothing else she has the genes.
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ed6566723
Joined: 05 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 06/04/14 5:43 pm ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
#11, Red.
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/mUy50ENGYUQ?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> |
I thought she looked terrible here
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GlennMacGrady
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| Posted: 06/04/14 6:15 pm ::: |
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FS02
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| Posted: 06/05/14 12:43 am ::: |
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| Her sister Tamika played at Oregon, and then later at Bowling Green I think.
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GlennMacGrady
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| Posted: 06/05/14 2:51 am ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
#11, Red.
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/mUy50ENGYUQ?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> |
Extra special credit for anyone who can explain all those lines on the floor. It looks like Piet Mondrian on speedballs.
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ucdt3
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| Posted: 06/05/14 8:13 am ::: |
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Re: Glenn's Kia stats post.
While I agree it was strange to go after a 4th guard, it appears (to me and what I've heard) Nurse is thought to be the next Kelly Faris. Tough, hard-nosed on-ball defender who started a TON of games in her career and whose stats don't jump out at you in any one area, but just got it done. Afterall, Faris played a decent role in her 1st NCAA title as a freshman and a HUGE role in the 2nd as a senior. And now she's in the WNBA after being a 1st Rd draft pick. |
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ClayK
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| Posted: 06/05/14 9:38 am ::: |
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It's also true that you can't have a full roster of elite players (as Pat Summitt used to do before the WNBA) and expect everyone to be happy and play well together.
A program like UConn can actually recruit a roster ... most programs don't have enough elite players to they'll gladly take any they can get, but really don't want to spend a scholarship on a pretty much predetermined role player.
I know Geno has said they only recruit kids they feel can start, but some of the UConn signees over the years have looked suspiciously like they're filling out the high school maxim about picking your roster: The eight best players and the four nicest kids.
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PhillyCat
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| Posted: 06/05/14 9:45 am ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
Geno began recruiting Nurse very late in the process, just a few months before signing day in mid-November 2013. This is subjective, but I always wondered if that was because he was always unsure about A'ja Wilson's interest in UConn and he had scholarships to burn for needed depth. It never made complete sense to me for UConn to recruit a fourth guard from the same 2014 class, and five total guards from 2013-14. |
Geno began recruiting Kia Nurse around the same time as other top programs (Penn State, Kentucky, Louisville, Tennessee) began recruiting Nurse: after her outstanding play at the Boo Williams event in April 2013. Before then, Nurse had been recruited mostly by Indiana (Curt Miller coached her sister at Bowling Green and her aunt at Syracuse) and some other midwest teams. Coaches and people at PN, Bluestar, etc., raved about her play at the Boo event. Geno took notice, as did Walz, Mitchell and others. Geno visited her home in Ontario in Aug/Sept 2013 and traveled to Mexico to watch her play in the FIBA Americas tournament in September. His recruiting her had absolutely nothing to do with A'ja Wilson. He wanted another guard and loved what he saw from Nurse. She'll play ahead of Edwards and could very well surpass Chong. Nurse is good, tough and confident.
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GlennMacGrady
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| Posted: 06/05/14 2:43 pm ::: |
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Nurse played for Hamilton Transway, co-coached by her father, in the April 2013 Boo Williams Tournament, along with two other Canadian club teams. Hamilton Transway went 3-2 in a non-elite division. Here's a Canadian recap with a short video:
http://www.thespec.com/sports-story/2550692-video-hamilton-club-teams-tackle-u-s-hoops-tourney/
Chris Hansen wrote a two part series on Boo players, and made Nurse his Feature Player in part 1, including some very strong praise of her game, but later in the article reported that she was not among the All-Tournament selections.
https://www.prospectsnation.com/node/14725/print
In part 2 of his series, Hansen made Katelynn Flaherty his Feature Player. Flaherty did make the All-Tournament Team. She is going to play at Michigan.
https://www.prospectsnation.com/node/14736/print
Mark Lewis wrote a two part series for Blue Star on the US Junior Nationals tournament in July 2013, in which Nurse competed with the Canadian Drive team, which went 1-1 in a non-elite division. Nurse is not mentioned in his primary article.
http://www.bluestarmedia.org/index.php/component/k2/item/531-flames-burn-bright-in-dc
Nurse is mentioned in his "double take and look back at a few more of the prospects" article, being featured along with Kysre Gondrezick, Aisa Doss, Lauren Brozoski, Eternati Willock, Taylor Dodson, Olivia Ramil, and Bridget Herlihy. (I've seen Brososki and Herlihy several times, but have never heard of the others.)
http://www.bluestarmedia.org/index.php/blogmain/marksblog/item/537-dc-double-take
In the 2013 FIBA Americas tournament that Geno reportedly attended, Canada was 5-1, losing in the finals to Cuba. Nurse averaged 10 PPG, 2 RPG, 2.5 APG, 1.8 TOPG, 1.4 A/TO, and shot 30.6 2FG%, 33.3 3FG% and 70.8 FT%. (She's also listed as 5-9 in height.)
http://archive.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/player/p/pid/91582/sid/6592/tid/257/tid2//_/2013_FIBA_Americas_Championship_for_Women/index.html
All in all, I take anyone's tournament evaluations (including my own) with a big grain of salt because the exposure is so limited, except for the elite teams to which most of the media scouts gravitate, in fields of 220-280 teams. Mark Lewis is honest enough to admit this in his writeups.
I favor data and what I can see on videos or in games with my own eyes (and camera) focused solely on one player.
The data seem very clear that Nurse is a below average shooter and assist passer by D1 and certainly UConn standards. As to whether she has Farisian hustle and intangibles, I thought that was supposed to be the mantra about Courtney Ekmark (whose high school stats I've never been able to find).
The 2014 UConn class is very unusual in lack of balance and quite unpredictable to me with it unprecedented combination of foreign players (Nurse), hiatus players (Ekmark), itinerant players (Edwards) and multiply injured players (Williams). I expect all four to face strong competitive playing time pressures from the players ahead of them and the very strong 2015 class that is being recruited behind them. |
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linkster
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| Posted: 06/05/14 6:20 pm ::: |
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"The data seem very clear that Nurse is a below average shooter and assist passer by D1 and certainly UConn standards. As to whether she has Farisian hustle and intangibles, I thought that was supposed to be the mantra about Courtney Ekmark (whose high school stats I've never been able to find)."
They can't have two? Ekmark looks to me to a classic over-achiever. Her primary similarity to Faris is that they are both gym-rat daughters of coaches. (And the reason you can't find stats for Ekmark is the same reason they aren't available for Faris's HS years, both fathers didn't keep individual stats.) Faris was a pretty good athlete and I have read nothing to suggest that Ekmark is especially fast or that she has any vertical, but from the reports form those who reported her tournament games as a junior she could shoot like Lewis, and I remember reading "unlimited range" somewhere? I am interested in seeing the results of her unique preparation for college ball.
This UConn class has 3 players (Nurse, Ekmark & Williams) who each have a wide best case/worst case potential.
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ClayK
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| Posted: 06/06/14 9:47 am ::: |
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The reason you can't find Ekmark's stats for last year is that she didn't play for her high school team her senior year. After winning three straight titles, all the other good players graduated, so she opted not to play.
Ekmark is a long, slender shooter who plays very smart. To me, she seems sort of like a duplicate for Saniya Chong, who also is a three-point shooter.
I don't think the Faris comparison works, as Faris is an exceptional pure athlete, and I don't think Ekmark is (she's not terrible or anything). Ekmark certainly has the potential to help UConn as a zonebuster, but I don't know if she can defend a top guard. If she can, then she could play a big role.
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GlennMacGrady
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| Posted: 06/06/14 12:59 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
| The reason you can't find Ekmark's stats for last year is that she didn't play for her high school team her senior year. |
I know that, but I can't find Ekmark's stats from any year from any of the usual sources -- MaxPreps, her school, her league, her local newspaper files.
Watching the video of Nurse I linked above, I see nothing that reminds me of Faris whatsoever, other than the bricking of outside shots that characterized Faris's early college career. Besides, one of Faris's most famous intangibles -- which is actually a crucial tangible -- was her superb passing ability. She showed that throughout high school and college.
I'd like to clarify a comment I made above about what credence I give to scouting reports. If an experienced scout sees a player more than once and gives consistent reports, I of course give credence to such a source.
What I was commenting on, lukewarmly, are scouting reports on a player comprised of only one short exposure during a giant tournament with over 200 teams playing on 10+ courts. I've fooled myself in both directions with such short looks at players, and I've never even been to a tournament as massive as the Boo or the USJN. I'd feel more comfortable about reports on Nurse if they were an accumulation of multiple observations at different times. |
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linkster
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| Posted: 06/06/14 5:39 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
The reason you can't find Ekmark's stats for last year is that she didn't play for her high school team her senior year.
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(And the reason you can't find stats for Ekmark is the same reason they aren't available for Faris's HS years, neither coach/father kept individual stats.)
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GlennMacGrady
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linkster
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| Posted: 06/07/14 12:40 am ::: |
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As far as Kelly is concerned I found these stats for her junior and senior years: http://www.maxpreps.com/athlete/kelly-faris/qK-9s_TrEeKZ5AAmVebBJg/gendersport/girls-basketball-stats.htm
13.8 pts a game. no fg% was available but she attempted less than one 3pter a game, hitting 25%. I'll wager a large pizza Ekmark is a far better scorer than that. And I'll also wager that Nurse's 33.3 % 3 point shooting against senior national teams in the FIBA tournament was better than kelly's shooting 25% in Indiana HS BB. And Nurse did that before her senior year of HS ball. If Nurse is a below average shooter (your words) then Faris was a pathetic shooter, perhaps unworthy of a D1 team. And we both know that's not true. I suspect that Nurse was the shooter of last resort on her team and that tends to drag down stats.
Our first look at Nurse appears to be in the senior world championships in September I believe. We at least should find out if she can compete on a big stage.
Finally, I found this link to a Bob Faris interview. This must have been where I read about his not keeping stats:
http://articles.courant.com/2013-02-22/sports/hc-jacobs-col-faris-0223-20130222_1_head-coach-bob-faris-scorebook
"February 22, 2013|Jeff Jacobs
It would make for a delicious metaphor to assert that Kelly Faris plays as if there is no scorebook.
Only it wouldn't be a metaphor.
"Points, that's one thing I never did emphasize very much," Bob Faris said. "There was never even a book kept on our AAU seasons."
No scorebook when you coached your youngest daughter and Indiana's Finest to the national 11-and-under title in 2003?
"Not even in the final game," he said."
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linkster
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| Posted: 06/07/14 12:50 am ::: |
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| If nothing else Glen can put Nurse on his all-babe team.
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GlennMacGrady
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| Posted: 06/08/14 12:43 am ::: |
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Perhaps the confusion about Faris is that her father coached her AAU team but not her high school team. Rick Risinger was her high school coach, and obviously submitted stats to MaxPreps. (Coaches who don't should be horsewhipped.)
Faris was not known as a 3pt shooter in high school or her first three years at UConn. In her senior year she amazingly transformed into a ~40% 3pt shooter, but has regressed in the WNBA.
Stats are kept in all high school games, so obviously Ekmark's stats exist. Jim Fuller reported her junior year stats as 19.6 points, 5 rebounds and 4 steals, but no shooting percentages. There is enough video and sufficiently reliable reports on Ekmark to believe she can be a very effective outside shooter in college. I suspect she'll be the best outside shooter of UConn's 2014 class. How much playing time she, or any of them, will get is another matter.
The video on Nurse and her stats suggest to me that she is a below average 3pt shooter. I've seen Sadie Edwards a number of times, and although I wouldn't call her a very good outside shooter, she does seem to be better than Nurse. Gabby Williams' sporadic stats from her uninjured games show she shot three's at 29%.
Edwards also says she prefers to play point guard more than shooting guard, so something positional has to give at UConn, since there would not be enough playing time for Jefferson, Chong, Edwards and Nurse all to play point guard. So some will have to play shooting guard. Which ones? Probably, the least bad shooters.
When Samuelson arrives the following year, I would expect her to immediately become UConn's primary outside threat. |
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ClayK
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| Posted: 06/08/14 12:29 pm ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
Perhaps the confusion about Faris is that her father coached her AAU team but not her high school team. Rick Risinger was her high school coach, and obviously submitted stats to MaxPreps. (Coaches who don't should be horsewhipped.)
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I post my stats at the end of the year, but until every coach on my schedule does so during the course of the season, I'm not going to put my team at a disadvantage by revealing, say, my weakest free-throw shooter, or best offensive rebounder until we're done for the year.
And even then, I still give a lot away to coaches who don't post their stats.
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GlennMacGrady
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| Posted: 06/08/14 1:01 pm ::: |
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Mechelle Voepel, in search of a statistical national story on the Bentley School in California, finally finds the coach.
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