RebKell's Junkie Boards

[Shades]

[HistoryWomensBasketball]

[quote="ArtBest23"]

[FS02]

Is this "parity" situation unique to women's basketball?

Here's a look at the history of other top women's team sports over the past 20 years.

(I've actually wanted to do this comparison for some time, this thread finally spurred me to actually do the hour's worth of research):

WBB (1995-2014)

# of different champs: 7

Repeat champs: UConn, 9; Tennessee, 5; Baylor, 2

One-time champs: Purdue, Notre Dame, Maryland, Texas A&M

Volleyball (1994-2013)

# of different champs: 8

Repeat champs: Penn State, 6; Stanford, 5; Nebraska, 3; USC, 2

One-time champs: Long Beach State, Washington, UCLA, Texas

Softball (1994-2013)

# of different champs: 9

Repeat champs: Arizona, 6; UCLA, 5; Arizona State, 2; Oklahoma, 2

One-time champs: Fresno State, California, Michigan, Washington, Alabama

Soccer (1994-2013)

# of different champs: 8

Repeat champs: North Carolina, 10; Notre Dame, 3; Portland, 2

One-Time champs: Florida, Santa Clara, USC, Stanford, UCLA


The numbers for all 4 women's sports are eerily similar.
For men’s team sports--big $ or not--the trends are a little better, but they also follow a characteristic distribution pattern:

Men’s Soccer (1994-2013)

# of different champs: 12

Repeat champs: Indiana, 5; Virginia, 2; UCLA, 2; North Carolina, 2; Maryland, 2

One-time champs: Wisconsin, St. John’s, UConn, UCSB, Wake Forest, Akron, Notre Dame

Men’s Baseball (1994-2013)

# of different champs: 12

Repeat champs: LSU, 4; Miami, 2; Texas, 2; Oregon State, 2; South Carolina, 2; Cal State Fullerton 2

One-time champs: Oklahoma, USC, Rice, Fresno State, Arizona, UCLA

Men’s Basketball (1995-2014)

# of different champs: 12

Repeat champs: UConn, 4; Kentucky, 3; Duke, 2; North Carolina, 2; Florida, 2

One-time champs: UCLA, Arizona, Michigan State, Maryland, Syracuse, Kansas, Louisville

This leads me to propose that (1) There's not really anything different about WBB. The lack of what you'd call parity is just a product of how the system of college athletics works. (2) For some reason, the system behaves differently with male sports. In other words, I hypothesize that the difference between the average of about 8 different champs in the women's sports and 12 on the men's side is significant, but I don't know what it means.

(I did not cherry-pick these sports at all, they just happen to be the seven I'm most aware of. It was very weird seeing the same magic number emerge out the data every time.)

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@dtmears2

[sammieee]

[beknighted]

[p_d_swanson]

[hoopfan24]

[hoopfan24]

[CBiebel]

Let me give you a ND perspective on this. Warning, this will be rather long.

First of all, coaching-wise, based on the last few years (and actually, most of the time that ND has been a top 3, or even top 5 team), ND has competed well with UConn.

However, the main problem ND has had was recruiting. They had problems getting as many top flight recruits. They'd get a few, but not a lot.

ND went to the Final Four in 1997 with a team that had 4 senior starters. Four years later they won the NC with a team that had a lot of senior leadership. The problem was that McGraw couldn't turn that into success in recruiting. Having 2 Final Fours with teams full of seniors doesn't say to talented players "Hey, come here!"

ND for the next 10 years was a good, but not great team (when you look at things like winning percentage, rankings, and Sweet Sixteen appearances, they'd be in the top 5-6 programs, but they didn't make it past the Sweet Sixteen). They'd get strong top 25 recruits (not a lot, but some), but nothing that jumped out as "Hey, this is THE class!"

Then Diggins showed up. She helped with recruiting, convincing Loyd to come aboard.

Also, it should be noted that Loyd (a current sophomore) committed after ND's first Final Four in 10 years. Getting to the NC game that year might have been considered a fluke, but ND returned most of their players and did it again. Suddenly, recruiting opened up for ND (#3 ranked Reimer. And Allen was a McDonald's AA who was on one of the USA teams). ND lost 3 starters that NC team and some people saw their downfall...until ND went 3-1 vs UConn, losing in the Semis. ND now seemed a bit of a power (although this was attributed to Diggins).

Now the recruiting door swung open a lot, with ND getting Brianna Turner (Gatorade POY, and unlike Diggins, not just a local recruit who wanted to play in front of her home crowd) and Kathryn Westbeld.

So basically, ND recruiting, which was it's original Achilles' Heel is now going in full swing. One ND poster on another board wondered about Stewart choosing UConn over ND. She said she wanted to win 4 NCs. In retrospect, that doesn't look as good (if she had chosen ND at the time, ND likely would have won the last two NCs. Look at the stats). However, at the time she was being recruited, that didn't seem likely, and UConn would have been the no brainer.

ND's success and rising to "elite status" is recent. It's only now showing up in recruiting. As it does, you'll get those NC games you are looking for.

As I said to someone who commented on this year's NC game, "The problem was that the players ND needed to counter UConn were either freshmen or are coming in next year."

[joetro]

And that the big player ND had to help counter UCONN was out with an ACL injury.

[ClayK]

Were there any staff changes at ND that happened at roughly the same time as the improvement in recruiting?

At Cal, Kevin Morrison turned things around by tapping into SoCal talent, and often it's assistant coaches who do a lot of the heavy lifting.

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[Phil]

[Phil]

[hoopfan24]

[hoopfan24]

[Phil]

Like Clay, I'd like to know more. I thought the 2001 NC, coupled with the prestige of ND would translate to more success than happened over the next few years, but then the situation seems to have changed. Is it as simple as Diggnis wanting to stay local, and her personality creating a knock-on effect? Or was there a new assistant with better recruiting skills?

[ArtBest23]

[beknighted]

[Phil]

[Phil]

[CBiebel]

[ClayK]

That would make Ivey an even more viable head coaching candidate ...

Or, to put it another way, when she wants a head job, she'll get one.

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