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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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 Posted: 04/03/14 1:53 pm ::: |
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| purduefanatic wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
There are plenty of men doing just fine coaching women. I think this notion that someone has to come from the women's basketball coaching ranks is one of the most parochial and unnecessarily limiting myths there is. I think you look everywhere for the best coach you can find, attract, and afford. Whether they have coached women before would to me be way down the list of qualifications. |
I have absolutely no issue whatsoever with a man coaching women's basketball...in fact, I am a male. However, if you think that coaching a college team is all the same, regardless of sex, you would be very mistaken. Coaching 18-22 year old women is very different from coaching 18-22 old men. Just about everything about the job is different...how you recruit them, teach them, motivate them, etc.
And I completely agree about looking for the best candidate...which is why I tend to take issue with these 2 hires we have been talking about. I have a hard time imagining that took place. Dykes is a hire drawn to get ESPN attention and to hopefully excite the local Razorback community because of him being an alum. Decent enough reasons, but if he was judged by what is on his resume, it would pale in comparison to many others in the coaching ranks. Hell, he hasn't even been in the coaching ranks in over a decade!
The Summitt hiring is just very off-the-wall...which is why I have to believe that it was a package deal with DeMoss coming on as the Associate Head Coach. |
I agree with your assessment of both. I don't think either was remotely the best qualified candidate for the job, and each was hired for name and "splash" rather than because they were the most likely to produce a winning program.
History suggests that doesn't usually work very well. Fans always seem to think recruits will be attracted by the name, but recruits aren't stupid. They know the score.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 04/03/14 1:56 pm ::: |
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Being a head coach in high school is hard; being a head coach in college is many levels harder.
Tyler Summitt is 23, and if you look back at when you were 23, were you ready to take on a very, very difficult job? Maybe, and some people are. He might be one.
But there are also plenty of 43-year-olds who've been laboring in the fields for two decades, and their chances of success are higher than Summitt's -- and that's where the controversy lies.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 04/03/14 1:58 pm ::: |
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| And1 wrote: |
| I think if it was anyone besides Tyler Summitt, they would have just wished them good luck and been done with it. |
If it was anyone other than Tyler Summitt, ESPN would not have been asking coaches in a Final Four conference call what they thought of La Tech hiring a 23 year old.
I suppose they could have said "no comment." But when asked in that context, I don't find objectionable the answer that "that's a really big job for someone that age."
It's true. It is.
Last edited by ArtBest23 on 04/03/14 2:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ArtBest23
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| Posted: 04/03/14 2:02 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
Being a head coach in high school is hard; being a head coach in college is many levels harder.
Tyler Summitt is 23, and if you look back at when you were 23, were you ready to take on a very, very difficult job? Maybe, and some people are. He might be one.
But there are also plenty of 43-year-olds who've been laboring in the fields for two decades, and their chances of success are higher than Summitt's -- and that's where the controversy lies. |
I think what people ignore is that being the head coach makes you not only a coach but the executive director of a multi-million dollar organization with dozens of employees and a big budget to manage.
The best example is probably the number of outstanding offensive and defensive coordinators who flop miserably when they get a football HC job. They are often great coaches, and go right back to being great coach as coordinators. They're just not great executives and aren't good at managing all the myriad details that have nothing to do with players or playing the game. Some succeed; many don't.
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HistoryWomensBasketball
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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| Posted: 04/03/14 2:28 pm ::: |
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| purduefanatic wrote: |
| HistoryWomensBasketball wrote: |
| what do purdue fans generally think of their coach? |
She is a very good x's & o's coach that seems to do a good job of preparing the team and making adjustments. She isn't the "warm and fuzzy" type that some fans want.
I personally think she has done a pretty good job and feel like the next couple of years are huge for her. The team should be pretty good again this year and on paper, the recruits coming in over the next 3 years look to be very Good . |
Thx. I had opportunity to sit on a panel discussion last year and we got to talk a lot on the history of Women's basketball. enjoyed it very much. she was very down to earth. |
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/03/14 2:37 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
History suggests that doesn't usually work very well. Fans always seem to think recruits will be attracted by the name, but recruits aren't stupid. They know the score. |
Speaking of recruits, I can't imagine parents being eager to send their daughters off for a coach barely older than they are. I would never do it, no matter who that child-coach was.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 04/03/14 2:46 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
Being a head coach in high school is hard; being a head coach in college is many levels harder.
Tyler Summitt is 23, and if you look back at when you were 23, were you ready to take on a very, very difficult job? Maybe, and some people are. He might be one.
But there are also plenty of 43-year-olds who've been laboring in the fields for two decades, and their chances of success are higher than Summitt's -- and that's where the controversy lies. |
There are also plenty who are NOT. Managerial material is not necessarily age-related or age-dependent. As for the male-female thing, I would point you at Wisconsin, which despite having a very good and qualified and well-recommended male candidate on hand when Jane Albright left, chose to go after a mid-major coach *specifically* because she was female. We all know how well that turned out. The program, which was at least respectable at the time this was done, has never recovered, although it is struggling valiantly now. Pat Richter, who was AD at the time, lost my respect permanently (not that he ever had it, much).
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 04/03/14 2:58 pm ::: |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
History suggests that doesn't usually work very well. Fans always seem to think recruits will be attracted by the name, but recruits aren't stupid. They know the score. |
Speaking of recruits, I can't imagine parents being eager to send their daughters off for a coach barely older than they are. I would never do it, no matter who that child-coach was. |
It's pretty interesting that coaches who have been considered to be extremely young have been more like 28-30. Brad Stevens was 31 when he became HC at Butler. Billy Donovan was 28 or 29 when hired by Marshal and 30 or 31 when he got the Florida job. Wes Miller was 28 when he became HC at UNC Greensboro. Jason Capel was 30 when he was hired by App St. Bobby Cremins was 28 when he was hired by App. St.
Not sure who the youngest WCBB coach is now, but when Linda Lappe was hired at Colorado in 2010 they wrote this about her: "She becomes the youngest head women's basketball coach at a BCS conference school and the third-youngest overall, behind only Jamie Craighead (Sacramento State) and Candace Whittaker (Missouri-Kansas City) both of whom turn 30 within the next month. She's the second-youngest to be named head coach of the CU women's team. Barry was 28 when named on April 12, 1983, exactly 27 years to the date of Lappe's hiring."
So even from the standpoint of hiring someone really young as a head coach, 23 seems young beyond the extreme limit.
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Jlcarter
Joined: 03 Jul 2013
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ArtBest23
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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Phil
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 04/03/14 3:32 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
Not sure who the youngest WCBB coach is now, . |
Maureen Magarity, at New Hampshire, was the youngest D1 coach (men or women) when hired in 2010. She was 29 at the time. I'm not sure if someone younger hhas been hired since.
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ArtBest23
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HistoryWomensBasketball
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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| Posted: 04/03/14 3:38 pm ::: |
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| Was before NCAA but Cathy rush who lead mighty macs to 3 national championships during AIAW I believe was 25 |
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Jlcarter
Joined: 03 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 04/03/14 3:45 pm ::: |
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| I provided a link too his press conference. Did you watch it? Many Tech fans said he was impressive.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 04/03/14 4:10 pm ::: |
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| I find it rather amusing how many of you assume Tyler can't think for himself. You just don't know Tyler. I think you are going to be surprised.
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It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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ArtBest23
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| Posted: 04/03/14 4:15 pm ::: |
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I think you miss the point.
So, sure, it's possible someone could find a 15 year old kid who turns out to be the most brilliant coach in history. They make movies about such things.
But that doesn't mean it's a sensible hire for a college to take that kind of gamble with a completely unknown and unproven commodity.
The point here isn't about whether he will succeed or fail. it's that he has no resume upon which La Tech could make a rational decision to hire him over so many other possible choices.
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Phil
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 04/03/14 6:01 pm ::: |
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| HistoryWomensBasketball wrote: |
| Was before NCAA but Cathy rush who lead mighty macs to 3 national championships during AIAW I believe was 25 |
Actually, she may have been 24. This article:
http://www.nooga.com/154907/shes-simply-remarkable/
says she was 22, but I don't think the math works. I believe she was born in April of 1947, which is consistent with being 29 in 1977 (when she lost to Summitt, presumably before 7 April) but her first year coaching was the 1972 year. Assuming this is the 71-72 year, she started in fall of 71 and would have been 24. If she was hired in the spring, she could have been 23, but I don't think 22 is possible.
Looking further, I see that Porter claims she was hired in 1970, not 1971, so 22 is possible.
I've looked further and now think that 22 is very possible. I've written to the author of the article to see if I can get confirmation.
I also note that the article says she lost to Tennessee 7038. I think it was actually 91-71, still a loss, but not quite the 32 point blowout reported.
Last edited by Phil on 04/03/14 7:03 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Carol Anne
Joined: 09 Apr 2005
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| Posted: 04/03/14 6:54 pm ::: |
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| Oh, how I'd love to know what Kim Mulkey thinks about this. (Her hire date at Baylor was 4/4/00.)
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Phil
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 04/03/14 7:05 pm ::: |
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| Carol Anne wrote: |
| Oh, how I'd love to know what Kim Mulkey thinks about this. (Her hire date at Baylor was 4/4/00.) |
I'm guessing Tyler didn't ask for a 5 year contract.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 04/03/14 8:03 pm ::: |
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| Carol Anne wrote: |
| Oh, how I'd love to know what Kim Mulkey thinks about this. (Her hire date at Baylor was 4/4/00.) |
I do specifically recall that Kim did NOT want to coach at Tech. I can't remember the circumstances, but she said as much when Barmore retired and there was some talk about her going back there.
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It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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Stephen Shirley
Joined: 18 Dec 2006
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| Posted: 04/03/14 8:15 pm ::: This makes no sense |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
| Speaking of recruits, I can't imagine parents being eager to send their daughters off for a coach barely older than they are. I would never do it, no matter who that child-coach was. |
Why not? Do you think parents will fear that he is a sexual predator or something???
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/03/14 8:16 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| Carol Anne wrote: |
| Oh, how I'd love to know what Kim Mulkey thinks about this. (Her hire date at Baylor was 4/4/00.) |
I do specifically recall that Kim did NOT want to coach at Tech. I can't remember the circumstances, but she said as much when Barmore retired and there was some talk about her going back there. |
Interesting question. She supposedly did, but the story seems to be that she insisted on a 5-year guaranteed contract and that such contracts were against LaTech policy. (So, if you follow the logic, she asked for something she knew she couldn't have so that she'd have an excuse to leave.) I've never really been sure about that story, although there are parts of it that definitely have that indefinable sense of correctness.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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| Posted: 04/03/14 8:23 pm ::: |
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| purduefanatic wrote: |
| And coaching men vs coaching women is NOT the same thing. We all know (or should), that actual coaching isn't even a quarter of what coaches do. Now I'm sure he will be great with the fundraising and all that stuff...I'm sure he knows x's and o's just fine...but dealing with college age women is a whole different ball game. |
Tyler agrees with this and addressed it specifically in his press conference.
He said he always wanted to coach women rather than men because it's a different dynamic and psychology. He quotes his mother's coach, Billie Moore, to the effect that men can feel good if they play well, but women have to feel good before they can play well. He told the AD and president that he's the wrong guy if all they wanted was an X&O coach. His philosophy is that coaching women is all about relationships. He wants to mentor his student-athletes as entire persons, not just as basketball players -- to help them succeed academically, athletically and in life.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh2FUQJ_DBo&app=desktop
I think it's an interesting hire, made more rational by the DeMoss coupling.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 04/03/14 8:26 pm ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| His philosophy is that coaching women is all about relationships. |
Coaching anyone is all about relationships.
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